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Fujitsu 40-series and 50hz compatibility

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by Pat Marcus, Mar 3, 2005.

  1. Pat Marcus

    Pat Marcus
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    Dear All

    I thought you might be interested to read the reply that Ive received from the very helpful Kash Gill at Fujitsu.

    I wrote :

    Dear Fujitsu

    ......................................Your extremely friendly and helpful staff ................... made it quite clear that the panel is compatible with all resolutions at 50hz.
    I failed to check whether this is achieved by the panel doing some manipulation or, whether it is "native compatibility" ? If at all possible I would like to achieve pixel-per-pixel matching for the best possible picture and thereby avoid the dreaded "judder" that can occur.

    Kind regards

    Patrick.

    They replied :

    Scaling:
    Achieving pixel perfect image requires the use of external scalar, and is easily achievable but can be a little expensive.
    However, using a scalar configured for pixel perfect image makes the video image “non standard” in terms of HDTV.
    For example 720p or 1080i @ 50 or 60hz is recognised as HDTV
    A scaled image would be 1366 * 768 (pixel perfect). This 768p is NOT HDTV.
    Then there are issues of 2:2 and or 3:2 pull down (24 frame conversion to 50hz (2:2) / 60hz (3:2))
    In these situations the plasma unit will treat these as “non- video”, ie PC based signals.
    The finished result? This will give excellent “pixel perfect” picture BUT there will frame jerking on camera pan shots, due to the signal not being treated as video image.
    Additionally, HDMi may cause further problems due to copy protection issues (HDCP), which as yet have not been tested.

    So, my recommendation is to let the plasma take care of the video processing, after all this is our big plus point of the AVM chip set.
    It has a built in scalar dedicated to the screen size and has other key video processing enhancements with the newly developed AVM II.


    50hz support:

    Plasma panels display the image using a method called sub-field addressing. Sub field addressing builds the image using a colour palette layer across the WHOLE screen simultaneously. It is NOT built line by line as one may possibly surmise by interlace or progressive terminology (this is simply a legacy from CRT technology).
    The number of sub-fields varies depending upon the original source refresh rate.
    In other words, the NATIVE refresh rate can vary. BUT in terms of visible flicker, it is considered non existent (from the NATIVE perspective) due to the nature of the way the image is presented to the Plasma panel.
    However, due to external signal sources, interlacing OR flicker may be perceived to be visible. This interlace or flicker is purely a “by product” of the signal, and not introduced by the panel as a rule of thumb (there is one exception to this rule, but not covered here as it is not in the scope of this discussion).

    To put in other words, for a panel to support 50 or 60 hz is a function of the video processing and not a function of the glass (the “native” part).


    Can any of the experts summarise what all this means to a non-techie such as myself ?

    Cheers
     
  2. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    both 50 and 60Hz input signals will be processed to Native refresh for the glass by the internal scaler system.
     
  3. MAW

    MAW
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    i.e. he does not know what the internal clock runs at. Previous Fujitsu models have not suffered with any problems. The problem on Panasonic is due to the S.I. chipset in their digital input boards being unable to process 50Hz signals at HDTV res. There is nothing in the panel drivers to cause this, nor is there any control, unlike Pioneer, where the screen has it's own internal processing rate, which you can control, at least on MXe's. I'm about to ring Fujitsu, watch this space...
     
  4. MAW

    MAW
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    Right then, internal processing runs at the refresh rate of the source! Except for, we still don't know if it will accept a 1366/768 signal at 50Hz. Best guess is yes, or if not 50 then 75. That's what Fujitsus like on VGA anyway. So the 50" looks like being what most folks want. The minor doubt about 1366/768 is because, as the man says, it's not anything to do with HDTV compatibility, there is no real incentive to cater for a tiny minority who wish to use a scaler or HTPC. But as the chipset plainly accepts a wide variety of resolutions at both 50 and 60Hz, I see no reason why native res is excluded at 1 resolution and not another.
     
  5. Pat Marcus

    Pat Marcus
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    Good to speak to you the other night, Maw. Look forward to hearing more news when you have it.
     
  6. dilsher

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    HEY GANG

    oops sorry not meaning to shout...so what are we saying for me?

    1. Get a HDCP compliant Fujitsu P50HXA40U / Panny 8 series and leave the Iscan HD+ alone...

    2. or Get a cheaper HD Panel but with an iScan HD+ scaler...

    3. or both a scaler and option 1..??

    I'm really confused so please please help before i spend some heavy dosh!!!

    Whats best PQ and VFM???

    regards and mucho thanks

    Dil :D
     
  7. MAW

    MAW
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    Dilsher, you need to demo an HD screen with an iscan. If you are sensitive to this judder we all bang on about, you need the Fujitsu with or without a scaler, probably without to start with. If the judder does not bother you go for the panasonic and scaler, the results will be better for about the same money, but with judder.
     
  8. dilsher

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    right made up my mind!!!

    Cheers to HD and our man MAW here though! i owe ay both a lot of champagne

    FUJITSU P50XHAU without Iscan but with full ISF by Piers

    BUT

    FUJITSU P50HXAU with iscan HD+ scaler + another Full ISF by Piers in a year, along with HD DVD player and Sky HD box

    Is this OK gang?? BTW...I am presuming i will need it all ISFed again when i get the scaler???

    Right, where me bleedin overspent Credit Cards????

    Cheers

    xxx
     
  9. dilsher

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    PS FOR MAW

    you need to empty your private mesage box!!!!

    ta!
     
  10. MAW

    MAW
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    Done, mate. 2 lots of ISF will be needed. I await my 1st 50" to test native at 50Hz.
     
  11. dilsher

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    MAW mate

    please do a full review for us when you ve done that!!!

    Dil
     
  12. dilsher

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    grovelling bump for a MAW review of the new Fujitsu 50"...(!!!)

    Dil
    :D
    xxx
     
  13. MAW

    MAW
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    It will happen when I get the screen. Meeting with my Fujitsu man today in fact. Don't expect him to surprise me with a screen but you never know.
     
  14. Pat Marcus

    Pat Marcus
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    Still havent got mine yet, though the order has been processed and it is apparently "on its way." My impatience overfloweth........
    Unfortunately, Im away this weekend having a "nice break" with the young lady. Clearly Id rather be at home, playing with the plasma and periodically appearing on this forum to write glowing reports and ask idiotic questions.
    Piers - as soon as I get it I`ll ring.
     
  15. dilsher

    dilsher
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    Cheers pat and maw...

    Dil
     
  16. Pat Marcus

    Pat Marcus
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    Questioned with a plaintive "when, when, when email", the ever-helpful team at Fujitsu have revealed the grim truth - that my Dealer has been somewhat inefficient at getting the order in and the contract signed. Hopefully next Thursday now.
    At least this means I wont be spending my weekend thinking about how Id rather be at home....hee hee.
     
  17. MAW

    MAW
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    Hmmm, wouldn't be too sure about that, I can't get any either. I think the grim truth might be Fujitsu rather than dealer.
     
  18. howesey

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    Received my 42 inch 40 series the other day. I have it running next to a Pioneer PRO-920HD and a Fujitsu P55XHA30ES, the new 40 series is something special. I'm yet to see a plasma match this pannel.
     
  19. dilsher

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    :clap: Thats it - I am sold - I AM buyng the new 50 incher Fuji which is supposed to kill the 42 incher too...!!

    Wohoooooooooooooo!!!

    ermm..where da hell is Liam when I need him!!

    lol..

    Dil
     
  20. MAW

    MAW
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    The 50" should certainly be good, I have my doubts about the 42, not keen on ALIS glass, but then neither of the 2 screens that Howesy has his beside are exactly world beaters.
     
  21. MAW

    MAW
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    Stock for sale now due next week... YAWN. Why is it always like this?
     
  22. Jazz Monkey Jr

    Jazz Monkey Jr
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    I am interested in these panels, what are the model numbers for these panels, would you still need a scaler? What are the prices?
     
  23. MAW

    MAW
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    No scaler, plug and play (we hope) P42HHA40 and P50XHA40
     
  24. Jazz Monkey Jr

    Jazz Monkey Jr
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    And the bad news (price)...

    £3500 for the 42"
    £5000 for the 50"

    does that sound about right?
     
  25. MAW

    MAW
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    Not been given more than 'guidance' at the moment. The 50" I expect to be £4500 retail, I haven't given any thought to the 42", as it's a type of panel I prefer to avoid.
     
  26. Jazz Monkey Jr

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    OK thanks,
    Doesn't seem to bad if you don't have to buy a scaler...I await some expert opinions when it has been demo'd.
    What do you mean by plug n play - has it got all the connections you need on it?
     
  27. MAW

    MAW
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    The word is that they are excellent on 720p, source could be a scaler if you wanted it to be, and doubtless it would improve non HD sources. As I gather it will not take native res on digital, a scaler has a bit less point to it. maybe put up with any dross on sky till you get the HD box. Not so long really I suppose. But you are going to have to sort your inputs out, there's quite a list of gear there, you can't switch that lot with a bose lifestyle! Maybe a scaler is not such a bad idea!
     
  28. dilsher

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    Ta for the updates Martin ..sounds great to me!

    Dil
     
  29. Jazz Monkey Jr

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    I have no plans to get sky - too tight :D
    I use the audio out on the ondigital box into the lifesyle video input for surround on TV, and I use the Optical out fom my xbox or DVD to the aux for dolby digital on the BOSE, that seems to be OK for the sound side...
    I don't actually use the N64 or Gamecube.. they are on the loft somewhere.
    I may get a new DVD player with component out when I get a plasma.
    So I shouldn't need a scaler?
     
  30. Stephen Wilde

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    I'm hoping a scaler will be unnecessary due to the quality of the AVM2 processor.
    The AVM1 on my older Fuji seems very good to me.Gives a near DVD quality with the higher bitrate broadcasts on Sky.Some movies are as good as my prog scan DVD player.
    Waiting to hear from MAW about overall quality of the 50" unit.
    I hope this does not annoy the scaler sellers on the board.I doubt that I will put off the seekers of perfection.
     

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