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FS2 and Marantz 4200 for music??

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by sarll, Aug 12, 2002.

  1. sarll

    sarll
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    Hi

    Can anyone tell me what a combination of Mission FS-2's and Marantz 4200 is like for audio cd's?? I appreciate seperate speakers would be better but i'm more in for space saving....
     
  2. Nobber22

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    Merely average IMO. Too much mid-range is missing from the Missions and the Marantz, while good for it's type, still sounds a bit flat and slow in stereo (with normal speakers too).
     
  3. Peter Shilton

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    Are you knocking the Marantz or the missions? I am about to buy either FS2 or FS1 to go with my Sony 1070 and hope that my music will sound OK
     
  4. MartinCo

    MartinCo
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    strange that the marantz had good reviews for exactly what sarll asked then... (What Hifi and others). its "musicality" was meant to be its strong point.

    NB I'm pretty sure the 4300 is coming in the next 2 months or so also.

    the Mission FS2s are fine for audio CDs...

    a pair of conventional speakers at £300-500 will usually beat them, but even so, they do a very good job for the money paid.
    less than £400 for the full 5 spkr & sub set is a very good deal still for the flexibility and sound they give you.
    when demo-ing I rated them very close to the Kef Eggs but for significantly less money... ie.. very good.

    in stereo, directly compared to my previous tannoy m2 pair (equivalent to an MX2) on stands and with decent speaker cable, the FS2s were far superior in both audio CD and 5.1 sound.

    as for the gap in mid-range, you could say this of virtually all sub/sat setups (bar the gallos at £1200 maybe?).
    that is the way they are designed to work.. the trick is getting the gap not to be noticeable. the FS2's sub should cover most of this range if it and the speakers are correctly setup.

    I play a very wide range of music on CDs from jazz right through to a bit of grungy rock, and have found the sound quality always very good to excellent... a nice warm detailed sound.

    the gap you describe in mid range is not noticeable in reality...(and is tunable on the sub to personal preference).

    anyway, there are a lot of happy FS2 users here both in terms of sound and the convenience space-wise..

    the Sony 1070... should be okay. will be very good for movies, okay for music if you dont have "golden ears" I'd reckon.
     
  5. 2 Point

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    I have the SR4200 and the FS2-AV set up. I am very happy with this in my TV-in-the-corner-rectangular room.

    I don't listen to much music admittedly and am relatively new to this AV lark, but I can say without bias that this was £600 well spent. Setting the amp to 5 speakers gives a full and enveloping warm sound, using PLII music brings in more bass with more emphisis on the font stereo pair.

    Consider this -

    No speaker cable to buy
    No sub coax to buy
    No stands to buy
    Fits unobtrusivly into my lounge, missus friendly
    Sub included

    The FS2's are a comprimise, but huge floor standers or smaller shelfs with their directional characteristics were no an option for me.

    Most of the mags have rated the FS2's at either 4 or 5 out of 5, at £800. At the knockdown price of £370 these are a steal.

    I took a demo first and found the experience to be well worth the trip, just to hear other setups for real, instead of someone elses opinion. I could have spent two or three times as much and gained, for me personally, very little. I listen at moderate volumes, my SR4200 volume range is marked from -65 to +15db, most listening is in the -35 to -20 bracket. If you take a demo, make sure you are happy with the volume, assistants can be a little too enthusiastic with the +V button!
     
  6. Nobber22

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    Well, I guess I this is yet another AV example where people disagree on what sounds good and what they prefer. Neither the Missions or Marantz did it for me (together & with 1) another amp & 2) full range speakers.

    However I wish to say on re-reading my post above that I wasn't being fair to either product. My answer was short and critical of each without mentioning their good points too. The Missions (and I feel the same about all sub/sat packages) are not my cup of tea, particularly with tunes and the Marantz sound (CD players, stereo amps and Receivers) is not my favourite sound either - decided after several years of extensive audtitioning.

    So......basically ignore my minority feelings and go with what the rest of the happy boys say - but as always, go demo yourself.

    Apologies again for my first post:blush:
     
  7. MartinCo

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    fair point, nobber. sub/sats are not for everyone.
    if you have the space, fine.. if not, there has to be a little bit of compromise.

    similarly like the marantz, some prefer others manufacturer's specific sound or style of delivery.

    anyway, no need to apologise though, debate and opinion is what the forums are all about.

    My view though, setup correctly and given room to breath, the FS2s do create both a very good stereo imaging from CDs, and a very involving surround sound mix off DVDs or DPLII..(the panels diffuse the sound by design).

    remember the sub level (affects the mid-range) and lfe setting are configurable on the sub so it can be tuned as you prefer it.

    just as a bit of comparision of sound on audio CDs and DVDs,
    I listened to 2 CDs over the weekend and watched a DVD... all were excellent.

    had friends around to see LotR which looked and sounded excellent.. some very good stuff here, the wraith scenes in particular were detailed in sound of both effects and music without getting confused. - the FS2s stood up very well throughout.

    also played Elvis Costello's latest (and pretty loud ) offering and
    an old Ella Fitzgerald with simple piano/ voice combo...

    very pleasing to listen to on the quiet stuff, but a nice bit of punch on the traditional guitar/bass/ drums music.

    they are a bargain at this price.
     
  8. Nobber22

    Nobber22
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    Thanks MartinCo. Was worried I had carelessly upset someone. Feel better now. Glad the Missions work so well for you. As you say, setting them up properly is important. Enjoy.
     
  9. sarll

    sarll
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    If you hadn't already guessed i'm very new to all this AV stuff. My only experiences of home cinema kit are at my friends house (toshiba 36" picture frame with dd) and a 2 minute demo I overlooked of FS2's.

    My question is with regards to the whole surround sound feel. I understand that the sattellite speakers with the fs2 produce little or zero bass and that this is left to the sub. So, for example, if you were watching a film where there is an explosion behind you, i would expect to hear a rumble of bass from the rear. But would it not be the case that the bass would infact come from the sub where ever in the room that is placed??? If so this isn't particuarly good is it ?

    Martin Co, i would appreciate any examples of your surround sound experience in films please! Good or bad!

    Apologies if i'm completely mis-informed/educated on this subject matter - but with the aid of this forum (and hopefully you guys) i'm trying to rectify this problem!
     
  10. 2 Point

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    Bass is reguarded as being non-directional, although the recommeded (from Mission) position for the FS2 sub is in front of the listening position.

    Films watched recently include

    LA Confidential - mostly dialogue and front dominated. The shhotout scene at the end is superb, the sound certainly pans from speaker to speaker with plenty of zip.

    Evolution - Plenty of 'thump' moments. Wife threw tub of Revels in the air at one 'jump' point, excellent use of bass for that 'Holy S***' moment.

    Monsters Inc - Ambient noise very discrete, footsteps of Sully provide regular 'feel' to the movie. (This is a pressed HK region 0, to be replaced with the full monty in a few weeks time, already on order)

    Altantis (VHS) - PLII Movie - not overwhelming with use of bass effects, this is a plus as who want to scare the pants off a 3 year old? Ariel's vocals are very clear and defined, well seperated from the audio, unlike playing it through the TV (which has L/R/Centre and Sub built in).

    Get a demo, bear in mind that a demo room has been setup with the TV/Speakers in the optimal position, your viewing position at home may be different.

    I'm not recommending this setup just to justify my purchase, I'm already happy with that!
     
  11. MartinCo

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    no problem, sarll... there are loads of threads on the FS2... have a search and do some reading.

    its subjective, but using the obvious demo pieces, the matrix, gladiator, saving private ryan dts, deep blue sea.. ermm.. ronin?
    all sound excellent... the sound really envelops the room.

    deep bass isn't directional to the human brain so its not as you describe above.
    it maybe acoustic trickery but you dont discern the lack of bass in the panels... they sound very close to conventional speakers, but with the obvious advantage of their size.

    I'm sure a few others will pop up for their views.

    some people are very much still in the "must be a conventional speaker" group, if you can get past this, then you shouldn't have any problems.

    as always, try and get a decent demo if possible....
    NB some of the Sevenoaks branches were slated for not setting the FS2s up properly... (sub not plugged in)... they love pushing you up to the Eggs for some strange reason like $$$.
     
  12. sarll

    sarll
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    Cheers for your thoughts guys, looks like I need to get some more demos under my belt. My problem is i'm looking at moving into my first house (with girlfriend) and so at the moment have no idea of the dimensions of my new lounge (although most we've looked at are around 15" by 12"). The girlfriend has kindly agreed to spend around £2200 on our new entertainment system with around £1400 budgeted on a tv, leaving £800 for speakers and receiver. We may not move in for another 6 months but the decent price you can get on the fs2's at the moment seems so tempting. If I wait another couple of months I don't reckon i'll be able to buy them from anywhere as they are being discontinued!
     
  13. Nobber22

    Nobber22
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    Quote: The girlfriend has kindly agreed to spend around £2200

    Lucky man! I'd hang onto her, see's a keeper:devil:
     
  14. MartinCo

    MartinCo
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    definitely keep the girlfriend. I like her already. :D

    the grey fs2s have been discontinued I think, no mention of the others yet. the fs1 will be out soon.. next 2 months or so.
     
  15. sarll

    sarll
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    I think i will keep the girlfriend she is a good un! On the subject of the fs1's have any of you guys seen/heard them?
     
  16. MartinCo

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    someone on the forums had a demo of an early version 2-3 months ago.. not sure if dealers have them properly yet.

    ultimately they should sound very similar (if not identical?)...
    the crossover has been tweaked between sat/sub(a plus),
    but the satellites are half the width in size (a minus? although the speaker technology will have been improved).
    the sub is slightly more powerful presumeably to cover for this.
    I wonder if more corners have been cut to get them manufactured cheaper.

    its really just new styling/ branding, especially if Mission aren't withdrawing the FS2s as it looks currently.

    I'm not loosing any sleep about the FS1s, put it that way.

    either will be fine in your future 15ft x 12ft room.

    mine are in 22-23ft x 14ft room, with no problems...(photos in another thread to placate the gf!)
    I've seen them demo-ed successfully in a much bigger hotel conference room.. (approx 25 x 45). the speakers coped well, I assume due to the speaker technology and the way the sound spreads out evenly.
     
  17. mickey moo

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    yamaha, denon, onkyo, kef, celestion, anything
     
  18. MartinCo

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    ?

    mickey moo, does the above post make any sense?

    random manufacturers strung together.

    very enlightening.:rolleyes:
     
  19. mickey moo

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    Just trying to say 'keep your options open'
    The Marantz (in my oppinion) is not a bad amp, its about time they had a reasonable one because the previous generations have been pretty dire. Other Manufactures have been getting it right for longer so don't rule them out. NXT is still fairly new technology. Every FS model that has come out has dropped dramatically in price not that long after it was launched which means they have suddenly found a way to make it cheaper, or it was way overpriced in the first place and wasn't selling because other things sounded better at the same price or less. OK at a reduced price they are worth listening to - but don't fall into the 'look how much money I've saved' trap. Also the FS produce and disperse sound in a very different manner - some people like it, some don't (listen to them and others). Finally don't forget that the amp wont be actually driving the speakers (the panels are 2 ohms), this is left to the amp in the bass unit to do.
     
  20. MartinCo

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    always true, but we were really only answering what sarll asked... other make amps should definitely be considered if possible.

    I've already got the FS2 and have found them really excellent... much improved sound and far more discrete than my previous conventional speakers.

    moo - just out of interest, have you actually had a demo of them? its not clear from your comments.

    and as for the price of technology dropping once its been out for awhile... I call that progress.:D

    happens to everything eventually.
     
  21. mickey moo

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    Yes I have heard them. Don't get me wrong, I didnt mean to come over all negative. I have a couple of friends who use them quite happily. For me they did some things quite brilliantly and other things not so. options open thats all. Still maintain what I said about the price though - Not many packages that came out at the same time at the same price that have dropped so much bearing in mind that grey import's don't come into this one. Manufacturers don't like dropping price - devalues the name and upsets people who bought it for more. However, like I say - at that price its a good buy if you like it - listening is the only way.
     
  22. MartinCo

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    not really. electronic goods always get cheaper over time, even with the same model. thats very common IMHO.
    for example, the original philips dvd recorder (1000?) at £1100-1200 is now sold at £599, with cheaper versions below £400.
    this is less than a year after release.

    and if you're talking about packages like the Eggs maintaining their price, its been pointed out frequently that Kef have artificially kept the price high by not allowing internet sales, bulk purchase deals and mostly sticking with their dealer network.
    also not true, unless you're talking about a prestige brand like BMW, Mercedes or similar.

    to all firms (Sony, Tosh, whoever.. Mission in this case),
    its a simple economic choice...

    sell more at a lower price, or sell less at a higher price

    just because the price has dropped, doesnt mean there is anything wrong with the product, just more a repositioning in the market or trying to increase market share exactly the same as the Philips DVD recorder situation.

    there are certainly more FS2 owners than Egg owners here so the price drop has probably done what Mission wanted.
    agreed, the FS2s are by no means the perfect speaker set you could buy bar none, but in terms of sub/sat peformance they are very good for both music & dvds..(still what hifi and hcc rated best buys). there is little discernable difference between them and the Kefs.. but a very big price gap.

    they also fulfill one of the criteria that sarll mentioned right aat the start which was their discrete size and depth... (for approx £400).
     
  23. perrdl

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    The mission FS1's are OUT NOW , so it may be worth giving them a listen too!!!
     

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