Freeview via loft aerial - anyone got a simple shopping list... in a small paragraph?

fatspaniard

Standard Member
Good morning all, as a result of having read several threads and lots of detailed techie advice here Planning Your TV Installation I'm now at the point of saturation overload and this task is at the "overwhelmed" state! :confused:

I'm renovating a rental property and have ran new coax from 5 rooms into the loft space, simple target is individual freeview availability in each room.

Postcode check gives me Sutton Coldfield transmitter with all green to go at 100%.

As far as I understand I'll need a loft aerial (there's not one on roof and I don't want to go there!) and maybe a 6 way splitter/amplifier, ideally something that doesn't run off the mains.

I've got modular outlets for each room (faceplate with coax and cat5 in single outlet) People in screwfix tel me this aerial will do fine (well they would wouldn't they!) Labgear TV Aerial High-Gain Digital | Screwfix.com but I read other comments on here that dismiss some of the cheaper aerials (I must admit I like cheap). Amplifiers again I'm lost with which one to go for.

I also don't understand where the power comes from if an amplifier/splitter doesn't need it? Or I'm thinking how about if I fed a 240V feed from an upstairs light to a junction box/socket in the loft? (as refurb now gone too far to run a feed from upstairs sockets). Go easy on me.

Can someone... anyone... PLEASE tell me what I need to buy?!!!!! :thumbsup:

Many many thanks in desperate anticipation!
 
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grahamlthompson

Distinguished Member

winston2010

Well-known Member
A distribution amplifier does not need gain input to output. If you already have a good signal from the aerial this could well lead to overloading.

Sadly setting up the system you want does not just involve buying kit and putting it in. You also need to measure signal levels and choose your kit to suit.
 

A1944

Active Member
Or I'm thinking how about if I fed a 240V feed from an upstairs light to a junction box/socket in the loft? (as refurb now gone too far to run a feed from upstairs sockets).
Careful! You might be breaching building regs doing that.
 

grahamlthompson

Distinguished Member
A distribution amplifier does not need gain input to output. If you already have a good signal from the aerial this could well lead to overloading.

Sadly setting up the system you want does not just involve buying kit and putting it in. You also need to measure signal levels and choose your kit to suit.
A loft aerial will be approx 10dB down on the same aerial externally mounted. Minimun gain on the Vision amp is 10dB. Simply restoring the status quo. Sig/noise is a lot better than a distribution amp.

Also factor in the lower gain of a log compared to a group A you would have to have a stonking signal to have overload problems.
 
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winston2010

Well-known Member
A loft aerial will be approx 10dB down on the same aerial externally mounted.
I know that. I also know that an outdoor aerial in a good signal area will often produce overloading by itself.

Putting it in the loft and restoring the status quo to overloading is not a good idea. As I said a distribution amplifier does not require gain input to output.
 

grahamlthompson

Distinguished Member
I know that. I also know that an outdoor aerial in a good signal area will often produce overloading by itself.

Putting it in the loft and restoring the status quo to overloading is not a good idea. As I said a distribution amplifier does not require gain input to output.

It's the arrangement I have roughly halfway between Sutton Coldfield and Lark Stoke and works perfectly on either transmitter despite the large difference in power (100% quality on all mux). In my case I have more kit based on the same arrangement. My post wasn't based on guesswork but on real practical experience. :eek:

Do you really think the OP will have enough signal to support passive splits to 5 tv's without some form of amplification from a loft aerial ?. In an existing install that worked with a 1000kW analogue transmitter together with low power Freeview the chances of overload are very very slim.

By the way the log40 replaces a DAT75 on a 20ft mast with a mrd that lost the com muxes pre dso in the summer thanks to a forest in the way.
 
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winston2010

Well-known Member
Do you really think the OP will have enough signal to support passive splits to 5 tv's without some form of amplification from a loft aerial ?
No, I never suggested that. Passive splits cause loss. What I said was distribution amplifiers should not have gain input to output. Of course they will have internal gain to overcome the splitting loss on their outputs, but what comes out of each output should be the same level as the input.
 

lbear

Novice Member
I suggest you have a read through the information on this web site. The guy will also give specific advice on what exactly you will need if you purchase from them. They go for good quality equipment and, for example the right aerial group you need, at little if anything more than Screwfix whose staff do not have the expertise in this area.
 

grahamlthompson

Distinguished Member
No, I never suggested that. Passive splits cause loss. What I said was distribution amplifiers should not have gain input to output. Of course they will have internal gain to overcome the splitting loss on their outputs, but what comes out of each output should be the same level as the input.
Which ignores the losses on the different length coax connections.

You wouldn't set up a large distribution system by just adjusting the output to each remote location to the same as the input without considering the losses on the downleads.

Out of interest tried connecting the DAT75 to the amp, result more signal same quality. Absolutely no sign of overload.

I refer you to the OP's request

Freeview via loft aerial - anyone got a simple shopping list... in a small paragraph?
So far I appear to be the only one that has made an topic post. As I have very similar reception predictions (the OP didn't quote any numbers), can you explain why a tried and tested solution won't work ?
 

grahamlthompson

Distinguished Member
Simple. He may be in a much stronger signal area than you.
The chance are massively biassed that he is not.

If the OP would post how far from SC he is then we would have some idea, that the nos of people in the area from being so close that a 10dB amp would create problems with a loft aerial compared to the number of people in the primary area is ridicolous. I always wanted to win the lottery.

Simple answer connect the log to a 6 way splitter, if it works that's great, if not add the amp as suggested.

Please post your shopping list as requested by the OP instead of merely confusing the issue. .

A mate lives in the shadow of Sutton Coldfield, his problem is not overloading. The signal is literally over his head :D.

I have already tried a higher gain aerial and a margin raiser that gives me 100% signal on all mux using a HD FOX T2's metering (matched by my other Freeview kit), an alternative that reduces the indicated signal by 10-20% (Sutton loft), and Lark Stoke which gives around 50% signal; strength with the amp gain increased to 20dB. All give perfect reception.

What have you done other than post theory based on no local knowledge (A distribution amp solution that takes no account of the attenuation of the coax connections to the individual point, let alone the different gain required to compensate for the different gain of the antenna by frequency)

Pro kit lets you adjust the gain by frequency and by outlet.

Basically you have totally ignored the OP's request for simplicity, obvuscated the issue with half truths.

No solutions just very unlikely problems. I note your double standards.

Paraphased quotes

1 Homeplugs are the invention of the devil and produce widespread problems ( demonstrably false)

2 4G is very unlikely to produce the anticipated problems with UHF TV reception.
Are you by any chance descended from the Vicar of Bray ?
 
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winston2010

Well-known Member
No need to be rude.


I have already stated:

Sadly setting up the system you want does not just involve buying kit and putting it in. You also need to measure signal levels and choose your kit to suit.

It could well be he is in a very strong signal area and overloading will occur with an amplifier. Equally his roof could be foil lined or aerial looking through a row of terraces and a loft installation not work at all.

That's why a survey is needed and levels measured before kit is purchased.
 

fatspaniard

Standard Member
Hey easy tigers... now look what I've gone and started!!!!

Graham, your very first post was just what the doctor ordered so thanks very much for sharing your experience which comes across as 'sound' to me, so now I'll simply buy everything on your recommended list :smashin: (btw postcode of the property in question is B25 and according to google maps it's 15.4 miles from the SC transmitter).

Winston, thanks for your input but the judges have no option but to place you second in this two horse race due to missing my 'saturation overload' point right at the beginning! (that's meant to be funny). Sadly "measuring signal levels" isn't really on my agenda and I'm generally open-minded towards things that can work rather than focussed on what might not work. For example whilst working on the house in question I had some minor trouble with my portable radio reception but noticed if I took a short piece of copper wire from the waste bin and tied it to the aerial then although it looked a bit silly I was now able to hear music and drool over DJ Kate Lawlers voice on the radio (Kerrang). :lesson:
 

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