Freeview / SD Quality - Sony 40W2000 vs Sony 40X2000

Discussion in 'Sony TVs Forum' started by flyinghaggis, Sep 16, 2007.

  1. flyinghaggis

    flyinghaggis
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    I was in John Lewis the other day after reading the reviews all set to buy a 40W2000, which is supposed to be one of the best LCDs out there, and noticed that in store it was sitting next to an equivalent sized X2000 series both playing BBC 1 freeview on the built in digital tuner.
    What struck me was how much better the picture looked on the X series. The W had blocky pixelated lines between colour changes from scaling to fit the screen and mpeg compression style artefacts all over the place. The X series was night and day better. All of the colour changes between lines were smoothed (like they'd been properly anti-aliased) and there was almost a total absence of pixel artifacts.
    In fact it stopped my buying the W2000 as IMO the level of quality of freeview on it was unacceptable. It got me wondering what made the difference and whether it was down to :-

    A) The improved Bravia engine on the X-series
    B) A better freeview tuner on the X-series
    C) The W in the store simply being badly set up

    If it was down to the X being that much better I started wondering if the W would have the same problem with other SD content? Most of the review I've read seem to suggest that there isnt much difference between the X and W range so was this just a badly setup TV? If the X really is that much better i'm definitely gonna spend the extra £400 to get one over the W. Or possibly wait for the new W3000 which should have most of the improvemnts of the X along with some other enhancements? Maybe i'm expecting too much when comparing an £850 Television with a £1300 one.
    A I was all set to go and buy myself a new TV but now I'm starting to have serious doubts about whether the W2000 would suit. I'll be watching a lot of freeview on it so the quality of that (and SD) is really important. I still want 1080p for my xbox/ps3 though so don't suggest a D3000!

    Any thoughts or comments would be appreciatied
     
  2. ChrisGgr

    ChrisGgr
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    Agree 100%.When I saw both on analogue the W2000 was rubish truly rubish,while the X2000 was far far more better than the w
     
  3. flyinghaggis

    flyinghaggis
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    I'm glad I'm not the only person that thought that. Would buying an external DVB Tuner fix the problem with the picture quality or is the better quality of the Bravia engine in the X2000 that's improving the picture rather than purely the tuner?

    Admittedly there's probably no point in buying the W2000 if I'm immediately going to have to go and buy and additional DVB tuner for it!
     
  4. ChrisGgr

    ChrisGgr
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    The whole processing is different.The bravia engine EX makes better upscaling on SD sources
     
  5. flyinghaggis

    flyinghaggis
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    Definitely gonna go for an X-Series if that's the best the W-series can do with standard definition sources. The imminent release of the W3000 is knocking their price down to around £1300. Might wait and see what the W3000s (as it sounds more like and X2000 with a couple of tweaks than the current W2000 in terms of spec) like but I think it's likely to be priced out of my budget.
     
  6. Mikeybloo

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    Can't understand why you got such a bad SD pic on the W2000. I recently had the W and X set-up side by side by my local Sony Centre and I tweaked the pic settings for SD feeds on both sets, and IMO there was barely any difference when I stood at optimal viewing distance of about 12 feet. Based on this I plumped for the W2000 (off the interweb I hasten to add for ££798). Really couldn't see why pay £500 more for an X. Had telly now 2 weeks and SD pics are excellent - better SD via Skybox than thru the TV tuner admittedly.

    Perhaps it was the setup of the W - I do find it is a set that needs a fair bit of tweaking. At £800 it's a bargain I reckon. Still, if you have £1300 to spend, go ahead, but that extra £500 could buy a PS3. 1080p stuff thru the W2000 is stunning.
     
  7. Michael Tonge

    Michael Tonge
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    Where did you buy the W2000 for £798?
     
  8. flyinghaggis

    flyinghaggis
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    I was standing about 8-10ft away from the TV (about the distance it would be from me in my lounge) and the MPEG artefacts were very noticeable as was the lack of any antialiasing on the edges of colour changes. I guess there might have been options enabled on the X that weren't turned on in the W to fix these problems. I'm not familiar with the settings on either TV and the neither were the staff in John Lewis.
    Just wanted to see if there was a concensus of opinion regarding the differences between the W and X series The reviews I've read tend to agree with your viewpoint that there isn't much difference between them but the models on display (admittedly a stores not a good place to test TVs) were world apart in image quality?
     
  9. Mikeybloo

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    Sound and Vision £848 plus I had a £50 discount code
     
  10. GunRunner

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    I very strongly disagree with this statement. I spent weeks researching this point. Here is a copy of my post from another thread.

    Seriously though. Whatever TV you purchase within 6 months or so there will be another one on the market from the same manufacturer that you will be advised to wait for. I wanted a 42" for my main bedroom, so thought I would but the Panasonic upstairs and put a slightly larger LCD downstairs in the lounge. I spent weeks looking at different TVs and viewed so many that my head hurt. I eventually kept going back to Sony and then started looking at the 46 X series over the 46 W series. In the final analysis, I found that the X series over enhanced the picture and in my opinion detracted from it. I checked at 3 different Sony shops and each time set the X and W series to my viewing criteria. In every case, the W series ALWAYS gave me the more natural picture that I required. Also in every case the top sales guy of the day in each store agreed that the W series was the best natural picture. I would be very surprised if there was going to be an improvement with the next generation of Sony's that would make you wish you had waited. The W2000 is being sold at a very good price now.

    Please note. I am not talking about spending 10 minutes in each store, I am talking about 90 minutes.
     
  11. ChrisGgr

    ChrisGgr
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    I also spent hours comparing the two at two different shops.I compared them with tweaked settings too.But the difference on the analogue tv was huge for the X2000.The analogue signal looked like rubish on W2000 while on X2000 was far more better.Sorry my opinion
     
  12. Mikeybloo

    Mikeybloo
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    But we ain't talking analogue as no-one watches that anyway - he was talking SD freeview which we think is about equal between the two sets. Both sets were great for DVD and blu-ray when I looked, and I imagine Sky HD is great thru both but I didn't see that. But as you say, Chris, everyone has their own opinion and that's what it's all about. I personally didn't see the sense in paying £500 more for the X2000.

    Now if he can wait until the 3500 comes out and has more than £1300, he could be in for a treat. Just depends what he wants really.
     
  13. ChrisGgr

    ChrisGgr
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    Ok,different countries,different needs!!Here in greece our freeview/digital channels are only 3.All others are analogue!On digital channels the difference was not so huge as in analogue
     
  14. Mikeybloo

    Mikeybloo
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    Aah, I've only noticed you're in Greece - no wonder your pic quality is lousy then :)
     
  15. GunRunner

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    Just to clarify again. I was talking Freeview, standard DVD and Sky HD. Lets face it, who in the UK would buy the W2000 or X2000 and watch analogue when the sets have Freeview tuners, especially when the current coverage for UK Freeview is 74% and growing very fast by the day? In fact Whitehaven in Cumbria is having the Analogue signal turned off in October this year.

    Also please note. I am not talking about comparing, I am talking about in depth analysis of 2 TVs that I am interested in. I also have a very critical eye and would have gone for the X2000 if it was in my opinion the better picture. I dont have a finance problem and my wife and I are both very active retired people who look for value for money.
    Anyway, when I did my testing over several weeks, one of the Sony Centre top technical guys (not the Saturday morning stand in) said after I had spent a long talking to him that the "Enhancement" could be turned off or adjusted to get rid of the over emphasis when using the X2000 and I said what is the point in doing that? His reply was....my point exactly and I would not purchase the X2000 in preference to the W2000, but dont tell Sony I said that as I have to sell the "perceived" best bit of kit on the market. However, there is one point here for the X2000 in that it has a different surround to it and in some people's view this makes it more aesthetically pleasing. But this is all subjective anyway, as who sits and looks at the surrounds of the TV when viewing the picture? In my opinion of course, but not worth the extra money for this surrounding piece of plastic framing.
     
  16. Mikeybloo

    Mikeybloo
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    Here Here to GunRunner's post above
     
  17. flyinghaggis

    flyinghaggis
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    When I was comparing them both had BBC 1 Digital freeview (SD Channel) playing. Not looking to start up and argument! Just wanted to see what people opinions were as the W2000 just didnt look right. I might go back to the store tomorrow to see it again, double check the settings on the televisions and maybe try a couple of different channels.

    Are there any SD specific filtering options in the menu's of the W/X that I should check to make sure they're enabled /disabled?
     
  18. GunRunner

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    The following is my take on your problem. You are not happy and not sure which way to go? Firstly, I suggest you do NOT go back to the same store and do the same comparison again. You will only come away with the same opinion that has already confused you. The store employs sales people who sell many different makes of TVs and are only after making a profit (naturally), and just do not have the experience on setting up all these different makes of TVs. The chances are they are not going to understand all the menu settings on each TV let alone the 2 models you are comparing. The sets are probably set to the defaults as they came out off the production line anyway.

    So what do you do? Just remember, either way, it can be an expensive mistake if YOU are not COMPLETELY happy. I would slow down the thought process and find out where the nearest Sony Centre is and ring them and ask them if you can compare the same size screen X and W and go there and ask them to change the settings until you have satisfied all your queries. Also don't just compare the SD channels on freeview and DVD, also check the HD quality as you never know your circumstances might change in the future. One thing do not be swayed by their opinion! I did all the setting up in a large Sony Centre where the sales personnel have a far better knowledge of their product than John Lewis sales staff do, and then I asked my wife to view both pictures. Within a very few seconds of arriving, she pointed to the W model. The salesman then said " I knew she would because it is more natural and not over enhanced".

    In the final analysis, it is your money and your decision, so I suggest you gain experience by going to a Sony Centre even if you have to take time off work to come to a decision. When it is made, walk away and negotiate the best deal on the internet knowing that you are happy with your choice of model. You never know you might be able to go up to the next screeen size.

    Regards
     
  19. ChrisMacca

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    Mikey - is this a generic discount code you can share? Great price!::D
     
  20. GunRunner

    GunRunner
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    flyinghaggis

    My Sony 46W2000 arrived yesterday and I have set it up exactly as I said in my previous post. It is excellent. I am pleased I did not spend money on the X2000. People talk about clouding! I cannot see what they are talking about!:D
     
  21. ChrisGgr

    ChrisGgr
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    Glad to see that you are happy!!Also clouding seems to have fixed at the last sets
     
  22. 961

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    Glad you are happy with your purchase!

    Clouding can be a problem depending on how the tv is set up but for most folk unless you turn the picture off and turn up the brightness you won't have a difficulty

    Like all purchases it's a compromise between moocho wonga and what you can afford

    I bought W2000 last Christmas. I'm still highly delighted
     
  23. Mikeybloo

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    Sorry, this was a "special" I got from someone in the know which is now invalid. I also notice S&V price is now back over £900, but you can get it for under £850 from RGB Direct or DigitalPoint.
     

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