Freeview In Hd

PHOTOSHOP KID

Active Member
Not wanting to be ripped off by Sky, I was wondering if anyone knows when we will be getting HD tv, I have got a fantastic Sony 55" tv, and the only time it looks good is when I feed a pc into it and watch HD clips,

what a waste of a superb tv, because freeview sd looks crap :mad:
 

dean999

Active Member
hi,
u may or may not know but grundig have a freeview set top box with 1080i upscaling via it's hdmi port. i know this is slightly off your question- but it might help with your PQ.
 

Starburst

Novice Member
The problem with HD is that it's vastly more expensive to produce and broadcast at this time which is one of the reasons only SKY are doing it in significant amounts and why it comes with a price tag.

Due to technical limitations of DTT as a whole (capacity and no mpeg4 support) there is no national HD (although I think the BBC still test some HD in London) and the costs of buying new capacity from 2012 will be extreme.
The simple truth is that for now and maybe another year or two HD isn't going to make money for advertising driven broadcasters and that leaves the BBC and PAY telly as the only practical source.

Alas buying such a large display does come with limitations if your primary soure is low quality SD although DVD should still look good and of course there is Blu-ray and HD DVD.
 

welshbrad

Active Member
is it possible to have a sat dish. its the cheapest way or you could get a evesham iplayer. i had a pace hd free sat box and the picture on bbc hd was amazing on my 42 inch hitachi plasma, i think i heard something about the bbc and itv joining together to make extra satellite channels( not sure though)
 

PHOTOSHOP KID

Active Member
The problem with HD is that it's vastly more expensive to produce and broadcast at this time which is one of the reasons only SKY are doing it in significant amounts and why it comes with a price tag.

Due to technical limitations of DTT as a whole (capacity and no mpeg4 support) there is no national HD (although I think the BBC still test some HD in London) and the costs of buying new capacity from 2012 will be extreme.
The simple truth is that for now and maybe another year or two HD isn't going to make money for advertising driven broadcasters and that leaves the BBC and PAY telly as the only practical source.

Alas buying such a large display does come with limitations if your primary soure is low quality SD although DVD should still look good and of course there is Blu-ray and HD DVD.


SD dvds look fine, and I will be getting a ps3 when the pricing is a bit more sensible,

the only thing is, sitting down to watch a movie is one thing, I just want to switch on my tv, watch the news or a soap and not be greeted with a blocky noisy picture :thumbsdow

By the time time HD broadcasts are common place my tv will be on the scrap heap:mad:
 

Miles High

Standard Member
The BBC and ITV are launching free hd transmissions ('freesat' - not to be confused with 'freesatfromsky') in spring 2008.
My guess is that Ch4 and others will join in, but maybe not right away. When this happens there will be a range of freesat hd receivers to choose from and you will be able to enjoy hd on your big tv at last. :thumbsup:
You will need a sat dish pointing at the astra satellites, but no sky stuff.
 

PHOTOSHOP KID

Active Member
The BBC and ITV are launching free hd transmissions ('freesat' - not to be confused with 'freesatfromsky') in spring 2008.
My guess is that Ch4 and others will join in, but maybe not right away. When this happens there will be a range of freesat hd receivers to choose from and you will be able to enjoy hd on your big tv at last. :thumbsup:
You will need a sat dish pointing at the astra satellites, but no sky stuff.

Well thats a bit of good news, thanks for the info :thumbsup:
 

Starburst

Novice Member
Well thats a bit of good news, thanks for the info :thumbsup:



Don't get too excited, agreeing on a spec with manufacturers for a Dsat box which supports H.264 and HDMI with DVR options for future proofing and a workable EPG is vastly different to actually broadcasting HD in 2008.
The big difference is that the Freesat spec is solid and final but no announcement on actual HD broadcasting beyond the BBC HD public value test has been made and certainly nothing from ITV or anyone else at this time.


I hope it all comes to pass, I would love a viable second HD source that isn't reliant on subscription.
 

Ben

Well-known Member
Out of curiosity, will existing HD satellite boxes be able to receive these channels? (e.g. the current Humax, Pace & Topfield models).
 

Starburst

Novice Member
Out of curiosity, will existing HD satellite boxes be able to receive these channels? (e.g. the current Humax, Pace & Topfield models).




If there are more FTA HD channels then assuming the STB can receive DVB-S2 and decode H.264 then I think you are well covered, of course they will not be able to receive the Freesat EPG.
 

figoagogo

Distinguished Member
SD dvds look fine, and I will be getting a ps3 when the pricing is a bit more sensible,

the PS3 is due to get a Freeview tuner early next year, it will be HD ready (although there are no Freeview HD broadcasts in the UK yet), it should handle SD broadcasts well and I guess it will also upscale well (does a good job on DVDs).
 

mike7

Distinguished Member
the PS3 is due to get a Freeview tuner early next year, it will be HD ready (although there are no Freeview HD broadcasts in the UK yet), it should handle SD broadcasts well and I guess it will also upscale well (does a good job on DVDs).


In what way will it be Freeview HD Ready ? No Freeview HD specification has been decided upon. I suspect you mean it will be a SD Freeview tuner and the PS3 will upscale it to HD.
 

figoagogo

Distinguished Member
In what way will it be Freeview HD Ready ? No Freeview HD specification has been decided upon. I suspect you mean it will be a SD Freeview tuner and the PS3 will upscale it to HD.


From what I have read, the PS3 tuner is HD ready for those areas/countries that (will)broadcast HD Freeview, apologies if I am wrong on that. Add to that the PS3 ability to download updates via the WWW then is should be able to handle HD in future.
 

JohnKen

Active Member
Don't get too excited, agreeing on a spec with manufacturers for a Dsat box which supports H.264 and HDMI with DVR options for future proofing and a workable EPG is vastly different to actually broadcasting HD in 2008.
The big difference is that the Freesat spec is solid and final but no announcement on actual HD broadcasting beyond the BBC HD public value test has been made and certainly nothing from ITV or anyone else at this time.


I hope it all comes to pass, I would love a viable second HD source that isn't reliant on subscription.

It looks now like BBCHD, ITV1 simulcast and Ch4 simulcast will be on air over the next few months on Satellite - but when it will be on Freesat all depends - see this thread for the background and the links to BBC and Ofcom sites and talks:
http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=624161

Cheers
JohnKen
 

ianjm

Active Member
From what I have read, the PS3 tuner is HD ready for those areas/countries that (will)broadcast HD Freeview, apologies if I am wrong on that. Add to that the PS3 ability to download updates via the WWW then is should be able to handle HD in future.

OFCOM have yet to decide if/when/where Freeview HD will ever be available, let alone what format to use (although it's almost certainly going to be DVB-T2 with H.264 MPEG-4 encoding, which I should add has not even been fully standardised yet by the DVB Consortium).

What's almost certainly the case, though, is that it won't be 'officially' available until after the Analogue switch-off, which is a long way off for most of us.

The only thing on Freeview in HD right now is the BBC HD Trial Channel, which is only available from Crystal Palace transmitter (IIRC), and then only for selected programmes.
 

ianjm

Active Member
Not wanting to be ripped off by Sky, I was wondering if anyone knows when we will be getting HD tv, I have got a fantastic Sony 55" tv, and the only time it looks good is when I feed a pc into it and watch HD clips,

what a waste of a superb tv, because freeview sd looks crap :mad:

For what it's worth, I watch Freeview through my Windows Vista HTPC (I'm sure most people believe Vista sucks, whatever, it does a great job for this specific use and lets me watch HD-DVD though the cheap HD-DVD-ROM drive in the HTPC as well).

Anyway, back to the point - Vista does a great job of upscaling Freeview. I'm sure a decent upscaler as a standalone unit or as part of an AV receiver would do a good job too.

Quite frankly, all the standalone Freeview boxes I've tried (including the one built in to my 40" TV) look pants in comparison, their colours are washed out, their judder all over the place, or fail to get any signal at all.
 

hamster

Active Member
The BBC announced a night-time HD service beginning from mid / late next year at the Intellect CE Conference in June.

I expect that it will be MPEG-4, and you can either watch it live (at 3am!) or PVR it for the following evening. The BBC has to get the system primed for HD PVR boxes to be made by then of course.

The Channel will be a "best of" called BBC-HD, and I imagine will carry the same content as the Sat service.

However I would be cautious about spending much of my cash on this as DVB-T2 is just around the corner so the box may be obsolete fairly rapidly. There again, the BBC may feel that the commercial pressure to do an HD service asap (though patchy due to spectrum shortage issues) means that they forgo the advantages of T2 (improved modulation scheme) and just do plain DVB-T MPEG4 - like France.
 

Nova Invicta

Standard Member
OFCOM have yet to decide if/when/where Freeview HD will ever be available, let alone what format to use (although it's almost certainly going to be DVB-T2 with H.264 MPEG-4 encoding, which I should add has not even been fully standardised yet by the DVB Consortium).

What's almost certainly the case, though, is that it won't be 'officially' available until after the Analogue switch-off, which is a long way off for most of us.

The only thing on Freeview in HD right now is the BBC HD Trial Channel, which is only available from Crystal Palace transmitter (IIRC), and then only for selected programmes.

The original OFCOM report on Freeview HD was the public had no appitite for it, the cross party select committee said the same thing however whilst they made these decision thousands of consumers bough HD ready TVs. OFCOM is tasked with getting the maximum revenue from the spectrum sale and the telecos and the likes of Microsoft dont want the BBC to get it for free. OFCOM contary to popular belief do not represent the consumer but government paymasters. :rolleyes:
 

JohnKen

Active Member
The BBC announced a night-time HD service beginning from mid / late next year at the Intellect CE Conference in June.

I expect that it will be MPEG-4, and you can either watch it live (at 3am!) or PVR it for the following evening. The BBC has to get the system primed for HD PVR boxes to be made by then of course.

The Channel will be a "best of" called BBC-HD, and I imagine will carry the same content as the Sat service.

However I would be cautious about spending much of my cash on this as DVB-T2 is just around the corner so the box may be obsolete fairly rapidly. There again, the BBC may feel that the commercial pressure to do an HD service asap (though patchy due to spectrum shortage issues) means that they forgo the advantages of T2 (improved modulation scheme) and just do plain DVB-T MPEG4 - like France.

The Final Decision on HD was announced on the 19th - see these BBC Trust pages. The BBC will NOT be launching simultaneously with the Satellite and Cable Launch in time for Christmas - and give thier reasons - which include MUX reorganisation to free MUX 3 for HD & DVBT-2 & MPEG4. They will review in 2008 and a launch of the full freeview service + ITV1HD and CH4HD in late 2009. In penty time for the heavy poulation areas to choose new compatible boxes.

Link is here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/news/press_releases/2007/hdtv_final.html
 

andykn

Well-known Member
OFCOM contary to popular belief do not represent the consumer but government paymasters. :rolleyes:

Wrong.

I don't think anyone thinks OFCOM represents the consumer :D
 

Starburst

Novice Member
in answer to the original post:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7105417.stm


What i'd like your opinions on is how my 2 HD Ready TVs are going to deal with the HD broadcasts? Will they be able to receive/handle the HD content? Firmware upgrades involved?



The HD Ready spec in use atm has nothing to do with having the hardware to directly receive HD broadcasts from any source without the use of an external STB of some sort to receive and decode the HD signal which is then passed onto the TV via Component or HDMI/DVI.

So in this respect a DTT tuner in a HD Ready display will be useless for receiving any DTT HD broadcasts and just like HD on Cable/Satellite you will need a set top box.
 

Duncan Harvey

Active Member
some of the newest Sony tvs have H.264 decoders built in so presumably a firmware update might do for these. But otherwise it will be set top box time all over again - hopefully at least with HDMI pass through.

Whilst I'm pleased this will go ahead, I'm a little stumped as to where the bandwidth is coming from. I suspect the best we'll get is 720p broadcasts - which IIRC is the EBU's definition of HD.

Its just a shame that we are stuck with an MPEG2 infrastructure for SD DTT - a move to H.264 would be great in terms of increasing picture quality - but of course this would never happen - we'd just get lots more +1 channels or gambling TV.
 

andykn

Well-known Member
some of the newest Sony tvs have H.264 decoders built in so presumably a firmware update might do for these. But otherwise it will be set top box time all over again - hopefully at least with HDMI pass through.

Whilst I'm pleased this will go ahead, I'm a little stumped as to where the bandwidth is coming from. I suspect the best we'll get is 720p broadcasts - which IIRC is the EBU's definition of HD.

Its just a shame that we are stuck with an MPEG2 infrastructure for SD DTT - a move to H.264 would be great in terms of increasing picture quality - but of course this would never happen - we'd just get lots more +1 channels or gambling TV.

AFAIK 720p needs more bandwidth than 1080i. The London Freeview HD trial was 1080i.

There is talk of the BBC moving stuff around on MUXs to make space.
 

Chris Muriel

Distinguished Member
AFAIK 720p needs more bandwidth than 1080i. The London Freeview HD trial was 1080i.

There is talk of the BBC moving stuff around on MUXs to make space.

Actually 720p requires less bandwidth.
(That's why Fox went for it in the USA).

Chris Muriel, Manchester
 

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