Freeview HD may miss out on BBC2/3/4 HD

derek500

Well-known Member
Freeview could miss out on extra BBC HD channels | What Satellite & Digital TV

BBC HD chief Danielle Nagler said the BBC will launch BBC Two HD when there is enough hi-def content for peak-time schedules.

'We have over half of the peak-time content in HD now on BBC One, but we are not currently in that position with BBC Two or the other channels,' said Nagler, who is the BBC's head of HD and 3D.

'When we feel we can offer it we will launch – and I have no doubt that BBC Three HD and BBC Four HD will follow in due course.'

Speaking to the Informa Digital TV Summit said Freeview's limited capacity for HD channels would not stop the BBC launching them. Freeview currently has a single HD multiplex with capacity for five channels, of which the BBC takes two, whereas Freesat, Sky and Virgin have relatively unlimited capacity for more HD.

Digital TV Europe reports that she added: 'There are possibilities around what can be done with Freeview that could allow the addition of further HD channels but it's a matter for Freeview and Freeview shareholders.

'If Freeview can't take them we will have to offer those channels on the platforms that are capable of taking them.'
 

lbear

Novice Member
A further two national muxes would be possible if the 600MHz band and the "interleaved" frequencies were acquired for DTT in the upcoming auction. That would allow the current HD mux to revert to use by the BBC who originally owned it together with a putative News HD or possibly the national transmission of BBC Alba in SD paid for by the Scottish Parliament. Restricting it to the four, given possible improvements in the compression systems, would allow full 1920x1080i pictures.

The news today that 59% of households already have a HD capable TV also strengthens the argument for further muxes in the current mix to be converted to DVB-T2
 

grahamlthompson

Distinguished Member
The news today that 59% of households already have a HD capable TV also strengthens the argument for further muxes in the current mix to be converted to DVB-T2
Why ?. They will still need a dvb-t2 box and if the additional channels are SD then a HD capable TV won't be any advantage anyway.
 
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lbear

Novice Member
Why ?. They will still need a dvb-t2 box and if the additional channels are SD then a HD capable TV won't be any advantage anyway.
Mostly because the cost of DVB-T2 boxes and tuners are dropping significantly to the point of being similar in cost to taking a family to McDonalds for a 'happy meal' or two by early next year.

I did only suggest one SD channel but T2 produces significantly better pictures than T on lower bit rates so most, if not all of the current SD channels could probably be accommodated in the bandwidth available on the few muxes available in "Freeview Lite" areas. In fact for these areas a very good strategy in "DVB-T turnoff" would be to move all five "analogue" or PSB stations to a single DVB-T mux and convert the others, gradually if necessary, to carry the "digital" channels on DVB-T2. This would give the same advantage as DVB-T had over analogue - greater choice - and permit HD transmissions as and when broadcasters wanted to provide them.
 

grahamlthompson

Distinguished Member
Mostly because the cost of DVB-T2 boxes and tuners are dropping significantly to the point of being similar in cost to taking a family to McDonalds for a 'happy meal' or two by early next year.

I did only suggest one SD channel but T2 produces significantly better pictures than T on lower bit rates so most, if not all of the current SD channels could probably be accommodated in the bandwidth available on the few muxes available in "Freeview Lite" areas. In fact for these areas a very good strategy in "DVB-T turnoff" would be to move all five "analogue" or PSB stations to a single DVB-T mux and convert the others, gradually if necessary, to carry the "digital" channels on DVB-T2. This would give the same advantage as DVB-T had over analogue - greater choice - and permit HD transmissions as and when broadcasters wanted to provide them.
That's fine but how does the percentage of HD TV's affect the argument ?
 

lbear

Novice Member
That's fine but how does the percentage of HD TV's affect the argument ?
Because the other side of the argument is to increase the number of HD channels available on Freeview to provide a "critical mass". Thus say 10 HD channels to fully exploit the HD display - by the use of an extra national mux in the 600 MHz band - together with the continued availability of the additional "digital" channels in SD via T2 will increase the number of people with HD provision. This in turn will increase the commercial argument for broadcasters to make the existing paywall HD channels on satellite FTA on DTT.

As we are looking at a couple of years down the line, the exclusive contracts for Five HD, the rest of the ITV main number channels, E4 and Film4 should be either expired or challenged by the regulatory authorities. Those, together with BBC simulcasts of 2, 3 and 4 would fill the two muxes at a stroke.
 

figrin_dan

Active Member
T2 produces significantly better pictures than T on lower bit rates
I think you mean that MPEG4 can produce better pictures than MPEG2 at lower bitrates and you can get more channels (MPEG2 or 4) in a DVB-T2 mux compared to DVB-T.
 
the bbc only offering their new bbc HD channels on broadcast systems owned by the very companies trying to destroy them.

"Want more BBC HD Channels? Then get a Sky Subscription and help put us in the knackers yard."

for clarification - more sky subscribers equals a stronger sky organisation with more influence to push their anti bbc agenda.
 

Starburst

Novice Member
"Want more BBC HD Channels? Then get a Sky Subscription and help put us in the knackers yard."



If it happens the they will be of course FTA on satellite making them accessible to Freesat, SKY and generic HD boxes.
 

platty2890

Active Member
Freeview needs to use its regional advantage by offering the regional versions of all the HD channels ie BBC1 BBC2 ITV etc and the additional of the local radio radio stations ie BBC local and commercial staions.

This could easily be done by dropping the least watched channels over a set period say 12 months if you dont get the viewers your dropped off freeview.

By doing this it makes freeview the service it should have been to start with people who cant afford to subscribe to the expensive platforms ie the elderly and the least well off.

It makes my blood boil to see the headline NEW channel coming to freeview only to find its another shopping channel.

Also by adding the local radio stations this will probably help with the proposed digital radio switchover as its mostly the elderly who listen to the local BBC stations.

I think most people would like to see the above option and forego say the shopping channels and some +1s to do this.
 

MarkE19

Moderator
This could easily be done by dropping the least watched channels over a set period say 12 months if you dont get the viewers your dropped off freeview.
The thing is that for these stations to be in buisness they need to be making money - and to make money they must have viewers. So as long as they pay their way then Freeview will be happy to continue to have them on the platform.
I think most people would like to see the above option and forego say the shopping channels and some +1s to do this.
Agree, I would far rather have quality channels rather than shopping and +1's - but as I say above, they have won a bid to get onto the Freeview platform and therefore are making money for themselves and the people that run the DTT service. So I very much doubt they will be bumped off Freeview unless they fail to pay their way - unfortunately :rolleyes:

Mark.
 

platty2890

Active Member
Agree, I would far rather have quality channels rather than shopping and +1's - but as I say above, they have won a bid to get onto the Freeview platform and therefore are making money for themselves and the people that run the DTT service. So I very much doubt they will be bumped off Freeview unless they fail to pay their way - unfortunately :rolleyes:

Mark.
Does FIFA run freeview as well.:devil:
 

PhilipL

Member
Hi

...Restricting it to the four, given possible improvements in the compression systems, would allow full 1920x1080i pictures.
There are no big improvements that can be made to the H264 compression system that is in use, they are already doing all they can. Small improvements to the encoders might help with difficult to encode footage, but the improvements do not allow the wholesale reduction of bit-rates that the BBC have already implemented, which is 16Mbits/sec to 10 to 7Mbits/sec.

The BBC HD channels are not far away from being litte better than good standard definition. It is only because our standard definition Freeview is so utterly compressed it hardly ever acheives the detail that can be contained in a 720x576 pixel resolution, that HD looks so much better.

They should remove BBC HD and replace that with BBC Two HD, even it if only shows a lot of upscaled content to start with as this still looks HD like compared to the normal overcompressed offering on Freeview SD. BBC HD just shows repeats after repeats, any new content it shows could easily be accomodated on BBC 1 HD or a new BBC 2 HD channel.

Regards

Phil
 

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