Freeview channel change loses ITV1 sound

Discussion in 'Freeview & YouView' started by John-W, Apr 9, 2005.

  1. John-W

    John-W
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    My Father-in-Law recently purchased a Philips 32DW6559 integrated digital TV. Sound is lost on Freeview ITV1 when changing from certain channels, eg. BBC2 or Channel 4, which occurs when stepping through the normal channel sequence, ie:

    BBC1 - BBC2 - ITV1 - Channel 4 - Five...

    I was warned by my dealer that loss of sound when changing to Freeview ITV1 from certain other channels using Winter Hill transmissions is a known problem.

    My Father-in-Law (aged 91) uses an alternative simple remote control with just 'CH +' and 'CH -' change, rather than direct channel number selection. Fortunately the workaround I have put in place for the Philips receiver is to re-define the channel sequence to:

    BBC1 - BBC2 - BBCFour - ITV1 - Five - Channel 4... this works!

    So, who is responsible for this problem?

    I contacted the transmission duty office at Granada TV, who stated that 'no other set top boxes or IDTVs are having this problem', and advised me to contact Philips. Philips Customer Care have advised that 'they are aware of this issue and are at present in the process of investigating and testing to try and resolve the matter'.

    A friend's Pace TwinDigital Terrestrial Receiver also loses ITV1 sound, but only on the first transition from BBC2 to ITV1.

    Has anybody experienced this problem, and with which receiver(s) and transmitter(s)?
     
  2. GaryB

    GaryB
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    I work for another manufacturer that uses an STB made by Vestel. This had problems very similar to yours with ITV sound from Winter Hill. Changing to ITV from Channel 5 worked OK but changing to ITV from most other channels resulted in no sound. The company that writes the software spent a couple of days in the area and identified a problem with the transmissions (I don't know exactly what). They did however come up with a software workaround that fixed the problem which was rolled into a normal software update.
     
  3. John-W

    John-W
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    Thanks, Gary, for your confirmation of this problem! It does appear, from the lack of any other replies, that transmissions in other service areas are not affected. If this is the case, then the responsibility does seem to lie with the Winter Hill transmission authorities.

    I've had the response below from Philips suggesting: "The solution may be a change in transmission frequency". Surely they don't propose changing the UHF frequency of one or more of the Winter Hill DTT multiplexes? This would have significant receiver re-tuning implications! What do they mean?

    Thank you for your recent e-mail.

    With regards to your query we can advise that the solution may be a
    change in transmission frequency, If the solution is one regarding a
    modification, all customers will be made aware of this.

    The short term solution is to switch to channel 5 and then to ITV.

    We trust that the information provided will be of assistance.
    Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience this has caused.

    Should you require any further information please contact our Customer
    Care Centre. Kind regards,

    Philips Customer Care
     
  4. GaryB

    GaryB
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    There is a small possibility that what they are referring to is the fact that multiplexes C and D are broadcast from Winter Hill on two different frequencies. This is because the main frequencies of multiplexes C and D from Winter Hill conflict with a nearby analogue transmitter. They therefore designed the aerials so that there is a null in the radiation pattern of the main feeds from Winter Hill in the direction of that transmitter (Llandonna IIRC). They then added what is known as Winter Hill B which broadcasts multiplexes C and D on alternate frequencies in the direction of the null. The slight flaw here is that ITV is not on multiplex C or D, it's on multiplex 2, so all of this doesn't apply anyway.

    The most likely explanation is that the chap at Philips doesn't know what he is talking about.
     
  5. AVJohn

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    I am also having the same problem with Philips.

    Philips tell me they know about the issue and are working on it with their engineers and the broadcaster. So I thought I would contact the broadcaster (NTL Broadcast).
    NTL PHONED me and were very helful. The said that Philips contact them from time to time and tell them they have a problem with their broadcast signal. NTL then send an Engineer from london to record the data stream and send the data to Philips Engineers in either Franc or Belgium. Then it all goes quiet for a while, and the Philips request the data again and so the process goes on.
    NTL have even offered to meet with the Philips development Engineers in Manchester but Philips don't want to pay to send an Engineer.
    NTL are adamant that their signal is fine and that the problem seems to be with the software. This seems to be bourne out by the fact that when you get the sound on for ITV1 you can watch for hours with no problem untill you change channel.

    My not too technical solution is to return your Philips TV, take the money and buy another brand.
     
  6. tbanks

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    I have had the exact same problem with ITV Winter Hill on my Panasonic Viera IDTV. It is somewhat intermittent, I just tried it and it was OK, but it has been happening for several weeks.

    Retuning the set helped - for a while - so perhaps it was just a coincidence it worked for a while.

    Cheers

    TimBo
     
  7. Poobey

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    I have a pioneer box which intermitantly loses sound and a ferguson prism which more often than not loses ITV1 sound.

    I've just had the aerial upgraded and still the same.
    We are also getting signals from Winter Hill.

    Does anyone know if this is likely to be resolved?
     
  8. John-W

    John-W
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    I still have the problem with the Philips 32DW6559 iDTV (See first post).

    I had not heard anything from Philips since last April, so last month I wrote to the Philips UK MD providing him with the history and stating that, in my opinion, this long-standing problem suggests a less than total commitment to the integrity of the Digital Terrestrial TV service by those responsible for facilitating it, ie. the broadcasters and receiver manufacturers. I included these Forum posts as evidence. Unfortunately the only response I received was from Philips Customer Services advising that my dealer should deal with the rectification!

    My dealer made enquiries and has been told that: “A software update may have been missed”. Consequently, I have just asked Philips to provide a statement in response to the following:

    1. Has this problem actually been corrected?

    2. If so, is a new software update the solution?

    3. Has a corrective software update been broadcast ‘on air’ since last April?

    4. What is the latest version number of software for this receiver? (For comparison with what is currently loaded).


    Further evidence re the Pace Twin PVR
    My friend with the Pace Twin PVR, also in the Winter Hill transmission area, confirms that it still has the problem, ie. on change from BBC2 to ITV1, but only on the first change. This has not been corrected by the software update to V1.7.71 on February 6th 2006. (See other Forum posts about this update).
     
  9. ROYOLD

    ROYOLD
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    Winter Hill Transmitters :

    The loss of sound on ITV1 is a well known issue on the Technosonic PVR 101 sold by Aldi stores in December last year. It still hasn't been fixed.

    The solution is to key in BBC4 on button 9 first after which sound can be obtained when you press button 3 for ITV1. Strangely, if you set a recording on the timer for ITV1 it usually works together with the sound. Very confusing.
     
  10. andyTT

    andyTT
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    Is there any new yet on this issue.

    My Folks-in-law:( are in Chorley (Winter Hill Transmitter) and have the same "no sound on ITV" problem on a 28' Philips IDTV. Switching to analog provides a solution but a long term fix would be better.

    :lease:
     
  11. PhilipL

    PhilipL
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    Hi

    There are some updates happening for Philips TVs according to http://www.dtg.org.uk/retailer/download_schedule.pl (see if your model is there).

    You need to ensure the TV is left on in standby normally for it to get the updates or invoke a software update check from the TV while it is on during the time the updates are being broadcast.

    Best of luck.

    Regards

    Phil
     
  12. John-W

    John-W
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    Re: Philips iDTV 32DW6559

    Further to my previous posts, Philips Customer Services refused to answer the questions in Post #8, but again referred me back to my dealer.

    My dealer (who is actually a Panasonic dealer!) pursued the issue, in conjunction with the Philips Area Manager. Initially it was proposed that the receiver was taken to a specialist company Genserve in Swindon to have new software loaded under a warranty procedure, since apparently there was no one in my area who could do this! I would not agree to this because of risk of damage, and also loss of the receiver for an estimated 2 weeks. So, eventually, 3 weeks ago, a home visit by a service technician from a dealer ~40 miles away was arranged. He loaded new software and the problem was fixed! (The new software version loaded was SW2.5.121).

    BUT, as reported above by PhilipL in Post #11, new software is currently (13-17/03/06) being broadcast for this receiver! (The version has now updated to SW2.6.26 – ie. later than that loaded by the service technician).

    If Philips Customer Services had been willing (or able) to simply confirm that the problem had been corrected by a new software version, and that this would be (re-)broadcast at sometime in the near future, then much time and effort by myself and the dealers and service technician involved would have been saved! I would have been happy to wait for the update, because I have had a workaround in place for nearly a year anyway (See Post #1).

    In my opinion, these events reflect either a lack of effective communication within the Philips organisation, or a reluctance or inability to provide customers with basic quality assurance information concerning fault correction.
     
  13. PhilipL

    PhilipL
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    Hi

    A lot of companies seem to be the same these days not just Philips, they either didn't actually know, didn't care to find out, knew but didn't want to admit it, and aren't trained in the products to even know over the air updates happen to ask the question "Is an update already planned over the air"?

    It's laughable isn't it they go to all the trouble to send a service engineer when the product is about to get an update over the air, and the engineer doesn't even have that newer firmware!

    You need a lot a patience sometimes with these companies. Just as well you didn't send it to them, you would have waited several weeks, it would have come back with some engineers sticky finger prints all over it, a couple of screws lose in the box, and the first message you would have got when plugging it in is, "A newer firmware is available, update now?":oops:

    Regards

    Phil
     
  14. MoodyB

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    Is anyone having the "no sound on ITV1" problem with a Grundig GDT1500?
    I lost sound 05/05/06 - anyone have a workaround or solution?

    Help would be appreciated.
     
  15. kenfoxcroft

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    Amazing discovery. I have a Philips DTR500 with the ITV no sound problem. Whilst rebooting works so does the following:

    select channel 23, then select channel 3. Works every time.
     
  16. philpot

    philpot
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    Hi,
    I have a pioneer 507 xd and sometimes i lose the sound from itv but there is no set pattern. I receive itv digital from winter hill.

    Phil.
     
  17. Treborvfr

    Treborvfr
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    I have had this problem (no sound on ITV1) for months now on my Philips DVT500/05 but I just never got round to doing anything about it. Reinstalling services fixes it for a short while, as does reinstalling factory settings.

    I emailed Philips this morning about it then thought of searching on here, should have done the latter first :rolleyes:

    Thanks to kenfoxcroft, your soulution is the only one I've found that works :clap:
    At least that keeps me going for now until Philips sort it out :rolleyes: (however, whether they will as the unit is 2 years old)

    Oh yes, and I am using the Lancaster transmitter.

    Bob
     
  18. Sue Roberts

    Sue Roberts
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    Hi, am new to posting! Have had the Philips 32DW6559 since Aug 05. Live about 10 miles from Winter Hill! Never had sound on digital ITV 1, then lost sound on other channels too. Retailer fixed with a laptop upgrade in Feb 07 after I wrote to MD of retailer. Now have no sound on any digital channels. Retailer visiting 2 moro for a "free inspection"!! So glad I found your forum and know about the problems. I have emailed Philips to ask what is happening?!! Naive I'm sure. Husband and kids missing Sky Sports News most!!
     
  19. Treborvfr

    Treborvfr
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    Well the first reply to my email to Philips suggested it was an hardware problem. I replied pointing them to this forum and suggested that it was more likely a software problem, especially since switching to ch 23 then back to 3 solves the issue, albeit temporarily. They have passed the problem further up and I await a reply.

    Although I use the Lancaster transmitter, it is fed from Winter Hill :rolleyes:

    Bob
     
  20. peterson

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    My PACE Twin regularly suffered the same problem. 'Fix' was to select C5 the 3 as detailed earlier.
    A few weeks ago I "upgraded" to a HUMAX with no more of this problem until about a week ago (start of warm weather ?) ....now I once again lose sound on ITV but only when exiting a recording. So far haven't found a 'solution' (other than to not bother !), will try CH23 then CH3 'fix' suggested earlier.

    So, basically, don't think we can br too critical of Philips about this.
    My feeling is THEY know what the problem is & also they KNOW it will go away post analogue switchover so choose to do nothing until then !
     

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