Freesat or Freeview Dilemma - Long post!

Paul_J_Smith

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Hi,

I about to ditch Sky HD as I cannot justify the ongoing monthly costs and I am in a bit of a dilemma.

I was about to go ahead and get the Humax Foxsat HDR or the Humax FreeTime HDR-1000S as a direct replacement but I was playing around with the TV the other day and noticed that the built-in Freeview (SD) picture on BBC1 was rather nicer looking than the HD picture from my Sky HD box on BBC1 HD. I messed about for about 1 hour before I came to the conclusion that I should reconsider Freeview HD via a Humax HDR-FOX T2

By the Way I have a panasonic TX-P37X10B Plasma TV that is 720p (1024 x 720).

Bit of history....

When I first got the Sky HD box I do remember being rather underwhelmed by the picture quality from the HDMI output (flat and washed out looking) compared to my old Sky+ box (Scart). This seemed to be a common thing on the forums and the consensus seemed to be "that is Sky hardware for you". I fiddled and fiddled with the settings (colour balance, sharpness, noise reduction, output mode from Sky HD (best was 1080i rather than auto) and I guess I just got fed up with fiddling around and just got used to it. I even bought my own box to make sure I could get (what was at the time) the box with the "best" picture quality (Pace 9F3005).

I suspect the culprit is/was the poor output inside the SKY HD box to it's HDMI port. I did some testing with a DVD player using the same HDMI TV input and lead and the picture was just fine. the DVD player was set to 1080i and 720p and 1080p during my testing - all output resolutions looked significantly better then the SKY picture which I tried on Auto, 1080i and 720p).

Problem is that I know about the limitations of the Freeview platform (limited bandwidth meaning future HD channels unlikely, higher compression leading to a theoretically worse picture than freesat, etc.) but I just can't get away from the fact that the Sky box is so poor.

so...... to the question....... Is the Humax Foxsat HDR or the Humax FreeTime HDR-1000S HDMI output any better/different to the Sky HD boxes? If not then I guess I will move over to the Freeview HD platform.

Doing this does have some other upsides too (like Dave, Yesterday). Problem is it niggles me that in 1 year Freesat might have 10-20 HD channels whereas I know Freeview never will.

What a dilemma - what is one to do? If I don't have Dave how can I watch things like the new Red Dwarf? If I go with Freeview will I always regret not going with Freesat as the artifacts are meant to be worse on that platform?

Wish I could afford both and then the problem would be solved.

Cheers,
Paul
 
The obvious answer is one of each :D

Time to save your pennies.

The picture from the HDR FOX T2/HD FOX T2 and the HDR-1000s is very similar. Doubt I could tell the source in a blind test :confused:

You can get custom firmware for the HDR FOX T2 which adds a lot of extra capability, this might colour your decision towards the Freeview box. Doubtfull if the hdr-1000s will ever have CF.
 
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And don't discount the Humax YouView box either. Finally got mine setup this week, and so far I'm impressed. Installed the TV guide App on my iPad and iPhone and can set recordings remotely from that.
 
I don't see how this is a dilemma at all, how it's a matter of choosing between the two, so glt does have the answer.
Digital TV, in the form of Freeview, is now standard and I'd guess that most people who take FS have FV already.
The best way to do it in my opinion would be to get a new TV which would have the FV HD tuner ready for use.
Also, one SD programme on one channel can be very different in quality from another on another.
 
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If you have an ariel no extra cost there. So you only need hidef recoder for hi def chanels. Dave not in hi def for free anywhere I believe. So cheap freeview sd recorder and a hd sat recorder? I have 3 different freeview hidef recorders and sky hidef. prefer pq on freeview hidef. However I believe more data is sent on sat channells so theoretically they have a chance to be better so may be on non sky box.
 
. However I believe more data is sent on sat channells so theoretically they have a chance to be better so may be on non sky box.

It's not as straightforward as the data capability might infer. Freeview can use 1080p25 where Satellite has to be 1080i. Because of the progressive format the mpeg4 compression is more efficient than with interlaced so though the bitrate may be a bit less the picture may actually have less motion artefacts especially with footage with some movement. The difference isn't vast by any means though. I would base any choice on the different channel line ups rather than one having a lot better picture.
 
Thanks everyone. Interesting points from you all. I like the idea of a cheap SD freeview recorder for Dave etc and the freesat for BBC HD/1 HD.

grahamlthompson - interesting that you say the picture from the HDR FOX T2 and the HDR-1000s is very similar. If that's the case (and all things being equal) then maybe the Freeview option may suit me better as it has the extra channels to slightly soften the small blow of leaving Sky and all the crap I have access to on there.

It's only once in a very blue moon that I watch anything else other than the main 4 but it's nice to know some retro shows are available if 1/2/3/4 is not showing anything I fancy.

What about the question of 2 years time though. Is Freesat going to explode with HD channels (and non HD) and leave freeview behind???
 
and. for the discussion on 1080i versus 1080p etc. Remember hat my TV is only HD ready (720p) anyway. I am more concerned about the ability of the box to send a decent picture out from the HDMI socket (which Sky HD boxes seem to get a bit wrong IMO. Granted it may just be that it is an incompatability between my TV and the Sky HD system 1080i ---> 720p but all the same I do not get a poor picture (all relative of course) when I use my DVD player via the HDMI. Maybe that's because its going from 480i --> 720p ???
 
Just noticed this:
I guess I will move over to the Freeview HD platform.
Doing this does have some other upsides too (like Dave, Yesterday)
:confused:
The four channels are hardly a platform.
You already have Dave and Yesterday on the TV.
 
Hi.
A quick peek through the guide suggests going freeview only loses:
CBS Drama/Reality/Action
Horror
True Entertainment
Men&Movies
Euronews/France24/CNN/Bloomberg/NHKWorld/CNBC/CCTV
True Movies 1/2
Movies4Men

Going freesat only loses:
Yesterday
Really
Dave
Quest

As I understand things, your Sky box will continue to receive (but not record) FTA broadcast (all of the first list) even after your subscription has ended.
You can therefore drop Sky, but keep the box plugged in so you can watch the FTA stuff from satellite, buy a FreeviewHD+ PVR, and maybe buy one of the FreesatPVRs in a year or two using what you've saved by dropping Sky.
--
Regards, Iain.
 
Good point....

I'm wondering if it might be possible to stream the output from he TV (via scart) and somehow record it using the humax. That way I can record teh "missing" channels on the Freesat and all would be good.

Is this a feature available? I know the TV can schedule and pump out the signal to the scart so it would ned the ability for the Humax to record from the Scart.

cheers,
Paul
 
and. for the discussion on 1080i versus 1080p etc. Remember hat my TV is only HD ready (720p) anyway. I am more concerned about the ability of the box to send a decent picture out from the HDMI socket (which Sky HD boxes seem to get a bit wrong IMO. Granted it may just be that it is an incompatability between my TV and the Sky HD system 1080i ---> 720p but all the same I do not get a poor picture (all relative of course) when I use my DVD player via the HDMI. Maybe that's because its going from 480i --> 720p ???

Another misnomer TV displays with 720 lines are very rare. HD Ready means a minimum of 720 lines (pretty well are are 768 lines). LSC/Plasmas are essentially progressive devices only.

The two options here are

Let the sky box scale down to 1280 x 720 and the TV scale back up to usually 1366 x 768 - often the worst option

Let the TV scale 1920 x 1080 to (usually 1366 x 768) in one go.

Unless you are using NTSC DVD's, PAL DVD's are 576i (720 x 576) that's what the DVD player outputs (unless it got component or hdmi upscaling). The TV scales to it's native resolution whatever it may be. DVD's with component out usually deliver 576p content over this connection.

In all but the largest displays the difference is minute between Full-HD and HD-Ready. HD Ready 1080p has 1920 x 1080 resolution anyway.
 
In most cases sure but my panel is a panasonic TX-P37X10B and its native resolution is:

737,280 (1,024 (W) × 720 (H)) [3,072 × 720 dots]
 
stream the output from he TV (via scart) and somehow record it using the humax
I know the TV can schedule and pump out the signal to the scart
TVs don't normally have any outputs - are you sure that yours has?
If it has then you can record to a DVD recorder, but not to a Freesat machine.
In your first post you said "If I don't have Dave" and "If I go with Freeview".
Don't you already have them on the TV?
 
I do indeed have Freeview on the TV but I was looking at a way to record them. The TV definitely outputs on Scart (according to the manual) so purchasing a separate DVD recorder could be an option.

Its not life or death though tbh. More important is the best PQ via the HDMI (hopefully improving over the Sky HD output)
 
In most cases sure but my panel is a panasonic TX-P37X10B and its native resolution is:

737,280 (1,024 (W) × 720 (H)) [3,072 × 720 dots]

Still is capable of working with a 1080i input signal. No need to convert externally.
 
More important is the best PQ via the HDMI (hopefully improving over the Sky HD output)
The current Sky HD PVR gives the best possible HDMI output for whatever programme is selected on it.
For the most practical results from Freeview a full HD TV with a HD tuner and USB recotding to external hard drive would be a good option.
 
Thanks everyone. Interesting points from you all. I like the idea of a cheap SD freeview recorder for Dave etc and the freesat for BBC 1 HD

I own a Panasonic 37PX600, and feed it with a Humax Fox-T2 - and the quality of the latter surpasses the Panasonic HDD recorder it replaced.

Moreover, the FoxT2 displays/records all terrestrial HD channels without the need to purchase a separate satellite receiver.

On the other point you make, it is the aerial connection made to the recorder that facilitates recording. The scart on the Humax Freeview devices only facilitates signal output, not input. Even so, your television does not output signals via scart that enables recording.
 
The current Sky HD PVR gives the best possible HDMI output for whatever programme is selected on it.
For the most practical results from Freeview a full HD TV with a HD tuner and USB recotding to external hard drive would be a good option.

How would it do that ? HD Ready displays report 1080i on HDMI handshake (1080i support is mandatory for HD Ready displays). All programming is transmitted 1080i. Depending on the destination a different manual setting may give better results.

Lots of TV's have HD tuners, by far the majority don't work with UK Freeview-HD services. I have a Full-HD TV with a HD tuner, it can't get Freeview-HD though. I also have a HD Ready TV also with a HD tuner it also can't get Freeview-HD.
 
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My guess is that most TVs now being sold in UK stores have a HD tuner that routinely produces all the Freeview channels and the EPG, including the few HD channels, and can record all channels to an external hard drive without loss of quality.
I've had mine for over two years, those features was pretty standard then along with Smart TV, and all aspects of the technologies have advanced a lot since then.
 

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