Clem_Dye
Distinguished Member
I’m having no end of grief with frequent break-up on horizontal channels on Freesat, and I’d appreciate some advice from other forum members as to what the issue might be, or ways to tackle it. The post is a bit on the long side, sorry.
First, a bit of background. I have distribution system installed at my home, which routes DTV, DSAT, DAB and FM to all rooms. The system, apart from the 80cm dish, is completely Triax-based -- LNB, switch, faceplates, etc. The system was installed in 2008, with the original Antiference switch replaced for a Triax several years later. (Can’t recall why, offhand.) The LNB and faceplates are those original installed, other than for upgrades (see below). The switch lives in my home’s loft. I also have standalone dish feeding the front room only, again using Triax faceplates for in-room connections. The second dish was originally planned to get German DSAT, as I worked for a time at a Swiss bank and wanted to improve my German language skills. It never happened!
Late last year, the distribution system connections were re-jigged slightly to allow a feed into a newly-built extension, and to provide a third feed in the front room.
In January, the standalone dish, which was pretty knackered, was replaced with an 80cm Technomate dish and Labgear hybrid LNB -- 2 ports for ready for an Arris box, which I’ll buy once the current audio problems are fixed, and 3 Freesat legacy ports. Four of the connections used existing cables, with one new port. Room side connections are Triax F-connector faceplates, as previously mentioned. WF100 grade or better cables are in use for all external connections. The installer is a guy that I’ve used for years and he always does a cracking job. Anyway, the evening after the dish install, connecting my LG TV to the new port on the standalone dish, I started getting break-up on H & V channels. After some discussion with my installer the next day (and thinking about the well-discussed LG Freesat TV issues, a thread elsewhere in this forum) I agreed to try a Manhattan SX receiver and connected it to the port previously used by the LG. For the first 10 days or so things looked good, pointing to the LG, then one Saturday evening, watching BBC4HD we experienced 18 break-ups in less than 2 hours.
My installer came back to take a look. In his experience, he’d never had a faulty LNB from new. On checking the LNB connections, he found one F-connector to be a bit iffy, but swapped the LNB for a Sky-branded one in any case, which he prefers using. Things looked fine for a while, then the break-up started again. I poked around on Lyngsat and noted that all of the channels having break-up were H polarity. V polarity seemed fine, so I decided to start using the distribution system’s new port for the LG, whilst waiting for my installer guy to call again. Yet again, I started seeing break-up on H polarity, but not V. Substituting the Manhattan SX also showed break-up.
My installer called on Monday to check things out again. On the standalone dish, his meter showed 100% SS/SQ on the Freesat ports, and about 70% on the ports ready for the Arris. Checking-out the new distribution port, he got 100% again. He also used his meter to run cable checks, and all got a clean bill of health. Unfortunately, he doesn’t have a meter that can check individual frequencies.
As a test, yesterday evening, using the distribution system, we watched This Is Going To Hurt on BBC1HD Wales (H) via the Manhattan, whilst recording it on my Humax 1100S Freesat PVR. I noticed an audio drop-out live at about 22m in, which was also trapped by the Humax. By comparison, the recording made on my Panasonic Freeview PVR, again connected to the distribution system, aerial pointing to Emley Moor, was glitch-free.
When the installer comes back from his honeymoon in a couple of weeks time, he plans to install a Sky minidish on my home’s chimney, so that he can split the standalone dish's functions. In his plan, the minidish will feed only the ports for the Arris, and the hybrid LNB will be replaced with a legacy unit. His rationale is that in his experience, he has come across a few cases of interference between the port types. I think that the roles should be reversed. I’m doubtful that this will make any difference. However, at present, both 80cm dishes are stacked above one another, so having a dish at a different physical location might avoid some sort of very local interference problem.
Looking back, I only really started using Freesat in anger after the Bilsdale Freeview TX fire last year. Overall, picture quality does seem better on Freesat, and I’m keen to continue using it, especially as the impacts of COM7 on Freeview are yet to come. However, with such frequent glitching, more than I get on Freeview, I’m beginning to wonder. My installer does occasionally notice the odd glitch on his SkyQ system, and I know from past experience (with rubbish Freeview signal levels from Emley Moor and the temporary Bilsdale mast) that I get glitches here and there. Same deal streaming. It’s not a perfect world that we live in. As an example, if my wife watches ITVBe on Freeview between 1800-2000 she will she some glitches. That problem disappeared some years ago, but came back after the Bilsdale mast fire. Oddly, we see it if we use Emley Moor too. There’s some weirdness going on somewhere, not helped by the fact that my home, a bungalow, is at the bottom of a hill.
About a 5 minute walk away from my home there is a Morrisons store, and behind that the Taylors of Harrogate plant, otherwise it’s just normal housing stock, nothing fancy. I did wonder if there was some sort of interference coming from Morrisons or Taylors, but it’s so random, I can't see how. My installer thinks it unlikely, given that it’s only hitting H polarity (thus far!). I also considered an electrically noisy appliance in my home. It’s possible, perhaps, but I think unlikely, again given the specific problem.
Both dishes have a clear line of sight. There is a tree in line with the dishes, but it has no impact. It’s currently clear of any leaves, and has recently been trimmed, so I don’t think it relevant. If it were, I would expect both H & V polarities to be impacted, not just H.
All of my kit in the front room is connected to a Sounds Fantastic 8-way power strip, which is supposed to be full of filters, and it uses shielded mains cable. All of my flyleads are made from CT100 cable with good quality plugs. Kit is connected via screened mains leads where possible, and all mains cabling is fitted with ferrite chokes. Mains, signal and HDMI cables are kept well apart. The Triax distribution unit in the loft is on its own circuit breaker, with only two smoke detectors connected to the mains with it. It’s plugged in to a Belkin surge suppressor.
I can’t think of anything else to try, save perhaps fitting some ferrite chokes to the flyleads. It makes no sense to me that both DSAT systems have the problem. There are some common denominators of course -- the mains power strip, LG TV and so on, but I don’t have the luxury of being able to swap those about at present.
Does anyone have any suggestions or ideas? I’m stumped. My ultimate fallback position would be to junk Freesat, bite the bullet and sign-up for Virgin Media cable box, which I really don’t want to do.
Help!!!
First, a bit of background. I have distribution system installed at my home, which routes DTV, DSAT, DAB and FM to all rooms. The system, apart from the 80cm dish, is completely Triax-based -- LNB, switch, faceplates, etc. The system was installed in 2008, with the original Antiference switch replaced for a Triax several years later. (Can’t recall why, offhand.) The LNB and faceplates are those original installed, other than for upgrades (see below). The switch lives in my home’s loft. I also have standalone dish feeding the front room only, again using Triax faceplates for in-room connections. The second dish was originally planned to get German DSAT, as I worked for a time at a Swiss bank and wanted to improve my German language skills. It never happened!
Late last year, the distribution system connections were re-jigged slightly to allow a feed into a newly-built extension, and to provide a third feed in the front room.
In January, the standalone dish, which was pretty knackered, was replaced with an 80cm Technomate dish and Labgear hybrid LNB -- 2 ports for ready for an Arris box, which I’ll buy once the current audio problems are fixed, and 3 Freesat legacy ports. Four of the connections used existing cables, with one new port. Room side connections are Triax F-connector faceplates, as previously mentioned. WF100 grade or better cables are in use for all external connections. The installer is a guy that I’ve used for years and he always does a cracking job. Anyway, the evening after the dish install, connecting my LG TV to the new port on the standalone dish, I started getting break-up on H & V channels. After some discussion with my installer the next day (and thinking about the well-discussed LG Freesat TV issues, a thread elsewhere in this forum) I agreed to try a Manhattan SX receiver and connected it to the port previously used by the LG. For the first 10 days or so things looked good, pointing to the LG, then one Saturday evening, watching BBC4HD we experienced 18 break-ups in less than 2 hours.
My installer came back to take a look. In his experience, he’d never had a faulty LNB from new. On checking the LNB connections, he found one F-connector to be a bit iffy, but swapped the LNB for a Sky-branded one in any case, which he prefers using. Things looked fine for a while, then the break-up started again. I poked around on Lyngsat and noted that all of the channels having break-up were H polarity. V polarity seemed fine, so I decided to start using the distribution system’s new port for the LG, whilst waiting for my installer guy to call again. Yet again, I started seeing break-up on H polarity, but not V. Substituting the Manhattan SX also showed break-up.
My installer called on Monday to check things out again. On the standalone dish, his meter showed 100% SS/SQ on the Freesat ports, and about 70% on the ports ready for the Arris. Checking-out the new distribution port, he got 100% again. He also used his meter to run cable checks, and all got a clean bill of health. Unfortunately, he doesn’t have a meter that can check individual frequencies.
As a test, yesterday evening, using the distribution system, we watched This Is Going To Hurt on BBC1HD Wales (H) via the Manhattan, whilst recording it on my Humax 1100S Freesat PVR. I noticed an audio drop-out live at about 22m in, which was also trapped by the Humax. By comparison, the recording made on my Panasonic Freeview PVR, again connected to the distribution system, aerial pointing to Emley Moor, was glitch-free.
When the installer comes back from his honeymoon in a couple of weeks time, he plans to install a Sky minidish on my home’s chimney, so that he can split the standalone dish's functions. In his plan, the minidish will feed only the ports for the Arris, and the hybrid LNB will be replaced with a legacy unit. His rationale is that in his experience, he has come across a few cases of interference between the port types. I think that the roles should be reversed. I’m doubtful that this will make any difference. However, at present, both 80cm dishes are stacked above one another, so having a dish at a different physical location might avoid some sort of very local interference problem.
Looking back, I only really started using Freesat in anger after the Bilsdale Freeview TX fire last year. Overall, picture quality does seem better on Freesat, and I’m keen to continue using it, especially as the impacts of COM7 on Freeview are yet to come. However, with such frequent glitching, more than I get on Freeview, I’m beginning to wonder. My installer does occasionally notice the odd glitch on his SkyQ system, and I know from past experience (with rubbish Freeview signal levels from Emley Moor and the temporary Bilsdale mast) that I get glitches here and there. Same deal streaming. It’s not a perfect world that we live in. As an example, if my wife watches ITVBe on Freeview between 1800-2000 she will she some glitches. That problem disappeared some years ago, but came back after the Bilsdale mast fire. Oddly, we see it if we use Emley Moor too. There’s some weirdness going on somewhere, not helped by the fact that my home, a bungalow, is at the bottom of a hill.
About a 5 minute walk away from my home there is a Morrisons store, and behind that the Taylors of Harrogate plant, otherwise it’s just normal housing stock, nothing fancy. I did wonder if there was some sort of interference coming from Morrisons or Taylors, but it’s so random, I can't see how. My installer thinks it unlikely, given that it’s only hitting H polarity (thus far!). I also considered an electrically noisy appliance in my home. It’s possible, perhaps, but I think unlikely, again given the specific problem.
Both dishes have a clear line of sight. There is a tree in line with the dishes, but it has no impact. It’s currently clear of any leaves, and has recently been trimmed, so I don’t think it relevant. If it were, I would expect both H & V polarities to be impacted, not just H.
All of my kit in the front room is connected to a Sounds Fantastic 8-way power strip, which is supposed to be full of filters, and it uses shielded mains cable. All of my flyleads are made from CT100 cable with good quality plugs. Kit is connected via screened mains leads where possible, and all mains cabling is fitted with ferrite chokes. Mains, signal and HDMI cables are kept well apart. The Triax distribution unit in the loft is on its own circuit breaker, with only two smoke detectors connected to the mains with it. It’s plugged in to a Belkin surge suppressor.
I can’t think of anything else to try, save perhaps fitting some ferrite chokes to the flyleads. It makes no sense to me that both DSAT systems have the problem. There are some common denominators of course -- the mains power strip, LG TV and so on, but I don’t have the luxury of being able to swap those about at present.
Does anyone have any suggestions or ideas? I’m stumped. My ultimate fallback position would be to junk Freesat, bite the bullet and sign-up for Virgin Media cable box, which I really don’t want to do.
Help!!!
) it will be a cheap thing to try.
