Question Freesat and existing Sky problem

Discussion in 'Sky Digital TV Forum' started by Draygor, Jul 12, 2015.

  1. Draygor

    Draygor
    Novice Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2015
    Messages:
    11
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    Brecon
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hi all, newbie to this forum so apologies if this question has been asked a thousand times.

    Here's my dilemma:

    I am a current sky customer with a fully functioning sky HD+ box. The satellite dish was installed at the same time 2 years ago. The sky works absolutely fine.

    2 months ago, I was given a brand new Humax HDR 10008 freesat+HD with freetime box off my brother, which when plugged into his satellite cables found signal and signal strength immediately.

    My satellite dish has a 4 port LNB and was installed by the sky engineer 2 years ago. The sky feeds are coming from port 1 and 4.

    What I want to do is run cables from the 2 free ports into the bedroom and use the freesat box there.

    So I thought I'd try the freesat with my existing sky cables.

    The issue is when I unplug the cables from my sky box and plug them into the freesat box, it get's to the finding the signal screen and hangs for ages unable to find a signal.

    Unplug from freesat box and plug into sky box again and after initialising, sky works perfectly.

    Everything I have read says that I should just be able to plug in to existing sky cables and get freesat.

    Will installing 2 new cables from the free ports on the LNB into the freesat box work do you think?

    Am I missing something really obvious?
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2015
  2. TJT1

    TJT1
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2011
    Messages:
    4,828
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    East Sussex, UK
    Ratings:
    +1,139
    You seem to have read correctly. That's what should happen, especially if it has been tuned in before.

    Installing two new cables is about the only logical way forward as you can't easily split a satellite cable feed.

    As to why you don't get a signal when you connect it to your existing LNB cables, that's a bit of a mystery if it was working OK on the other person's dish feed. When you say it "found signal and signal strength immediately". Did he actually tune it in?

    Freesat devices need to see the Freesat transponder on 28.5E so that you can enter your postcode to get the correct regional programmes. If it can't see that at initial tuneup, then you can go no further. As 28.5E is a bit off where most of the channels come from at 28.2E, your dish may be a tad off.
    Crossed out as it is out of date blx.
    PS. I suspect you probably mean HDR1000S not HDR10008
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2015
  3. Railway

    Railway
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    721
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Ratings:
    +105
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2015
  4. TJT1

    TJT1
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2011
    Messages:
    4,828
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    East Sussex, UK
    Ratings:
    +1,139
    Yeh. OK then. Where is E28A? Does that make my last post a load of blx? Or is the change possibly why the OP is having a problem?
     
  5. Railway

    Railway
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    721
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Ratings:
    +105
    The E28A is where it moved from and it moved to ASTRA 2E.

    In my post: I cut and pasted from a table on linked page so it may have been a bit unclear.

    I have tidied post up a bit. :)
     
  6. REPASSAC

    REPASSAC
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2011
    Messages:
    2,990
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Perchede 32460
    Ratings:
    +456
    Try again now.
     
  7. kevkbuk

    kevkbuk
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    5,991
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +1,176
    Makes you wonder if the box knows it's moved....
     
  8. REPASSAC

    REPASSAC
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2011
    Messages:
    2,990
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Perchede 32460
    Ratings:
    +456
    It has not moved, except to a UK beam, but the signal should be stronger (in the UK).
     
  9. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2006
    Messages:
    24,620
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Redditch
    Ratings:
    +4,208
    The box does not need to know it's moved. Moving transponders between satellites you have access to and retaining the original parameters makes sod all difference. No dish smaller than Jodrell Bank can possibly locate which satellite the source is from within a much larger range than 28.2-28.5E.

    They actually move all the time to prevent them banging into each other. One of the factors effecting satellite life is the on board propellant required to adjust the orbits. Even sunlight photons can move the orbital exact location.

    The move to a UK spot beam should mean that anyone within the primary footprint should have increase signal and quality, anyone in a marginal location may have lost contact.
     
  10. kevkbuk

    kevkbuk
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    5,991
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +1,176
    Obviously! I rather missed the point the parameters had not changed! :) A few TPs have changed recently, if only symbol rates.
     
  11. Draygor

    Draygor
    Novice Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2015
    Messages:
    11
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    Brecon
    Ratings:
    +0

    Hi TJT1 - we didn't tune it in, but it did find the signal and show the strength of it.

    I can't even get that on my existing sky set up.

    I will try the other two terminals and see what happens. Could it be anything to do with the LNB? Could Sky put some kind of a block on it to ensure only Sky is used?

    Apologies for ignorance, I know nothing about this stuff.

    Thanks
     
  12. TJT1

    TJT1
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2011
    Messages:
    4,828
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    East Sussex, UK
    Ratings:
    +1,139
    You will need to do this if you want to run the two boxes
    Unlikely as you say the LNB works on your Sky box
    No.
    PS. I've crossed out the out of date blx in my first post on the subject.
     
  13. kevkbuk

    kevkbuk
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    5,991
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +1,176
    Does the Sky box support those TP details for a manual scan? I know they are limited... That would eliminate the cabling, lnb and dish.
     
  14. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2006
    Messages:
    24,620
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Redditch
    Ratings:
    +4,208
    Rather more than a few. All Eutelsat 28A transponders have been transferred to SES Astra satellites, following this there has been a re-alignment of many channels between the Astra 2 birds.

    The big surprise was that SES was able to seamlessly transfer the Freesat Home transponder without changing anything, despite the frequency not being part of the frequency plan for any of the Astra SES satellites at this location , fascinating, perhaps we may find it the future. Out of interest I was holiday during the transfe, and backed up all recordings to Freeview, in the end all recordings worked fine :).
     
  15. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2006
    Messages:
    24,620
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Redditch
    Ratings:
    +4,208
    AFIAK know a Sky box can use any fta Ttransponder and any DVB-S2 transponder with a channel present on a Sky box (DaveMurgatroyd would know)
    Sky cannot possibly block a Free To Air broadcast from 28.2E. Other than the fact that the broadcast may carry epg information for a Sky Box and/or Freesat boxes it will be viewable on any digital satellite box with a dish aligned on 28.3E.

    If your Sky box can't find channels using a FTA channel and using add chammels using the correct manual transponder details, chances are it's your Dish/LNB.Cabling.

    http://en.kingofsat.net/freqs.php?&pos=28.2E&standard=All&ordre=freq&filtre=Clear
     
  16. TJT1

    TJT1
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2011
    Messages:
    4,828
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    East Sussex, UK
    Ratings:
    +1,139
    Referring to post 1, his sky box works OK. It's his HDR1000S that doesn't. Which is why I was banging on about the Freeview transponder (and being a purveyor of duff gen as usual)
     
  17. kevkbuk

    kevkbuk
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    5,991
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +1,176
    The Sky box doesn't need the Freesat home transponder to work, testing that TP on the Sky box is still a perfectly valid test even though it has changed sats...
     
  18. REPASSAC

    REPASSAC
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2011
    Messages:
    2,990
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Perchede 32460
    Ratings:
    +456
    Kevkbuk +1, also testing at a friends is an option.
    It is so very unlikely to be a faulty HDR-1000S.
     
  19. TJT1

    TJT1
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2011
    Messages:
    4,828
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    East Sussex, UK
    Ratings:
    +1,139
    As REPASSAC says above, for someone who "knows nothing about this stuff", rather than trying to tune a TP on his sky box which he possibly does not know how to do, I would suggest that he goes back to his brother's setup where he did get a signal on it and see if he can successfully do a Freesat tune there. That would prove or otherwise the serviceability of the HDR 1000S and whether the underlying problem at his house is the box or his sat signal. Once that has been established, then look into why it doesn't work at his house. Of course, geographical location may preclude this as an easy way forward.
     
  20. kevkbuk

    kevkbuk
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    5,991
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +1,176
    It's not rocket science... if they can operate the Sky box they are more than capable...

    A quick Google finds this:
    How to Manually Tune Channels on a Sky+ Box | Radio and Telly UK

    And the TP details have been posted above.

    Also worth mentioning that the boxes (Sky and/or Freesat) should be powered off before connecting or disconnecting the LNB cables.
     
  21. Draygor

    Draygor
    Novice Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2015
    Messages:
    11
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    Brecon
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hi TJT1, correct! I wouldn't know how to tune TP?!?!
    I have however this morning taken your advice and returned to my brothers house (2 miles away), where we successfully tuned in the freesat box, and flicked through the channels it found.

    Seems to work fine at his house!
     
  22. Draygor

    Draygor
    Novice Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2015
    Messages:
    11
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    Brecon
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hi kevkbuk - yes powered off before connecting and/or disconnecting.

    When the freesat box is on the screen showing signal strength, nothing happens and after quite a while, "No signal found" is returned.

    I'm 100% confused!!
     
  23. Draygor

    Draygor
    Novice Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2015
    Messages:
    11
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    Brecon
    Ratings:
    +0
    I have just spoken to a neighbour who has freesat and it works fine for them. We do live in a rural area, but not remote. Our postcode area is LD3 7NX. Thanks
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2015
  24. TJT1

    TJT1
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2011
    Messages:
    4,828
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    East Sussex, UK
    Ratings:
    +1,139
    What works fine for them? Freesat or your box?
    If it's your box that works for them (and at your brother's) then it seems pretty conclusive that it is your cabling/lnb/dish aim. If the box works at two other locations, but not at yours, then there must be something wrong at your location.
    You could first try some decent quality coax from the two spare LNB outputs to where you want to put the box in the bedroom and try it on that. (You will need this regardless of what else is wrong).

    Wow, that is rural, isn't it. But being rural does not stop satellite signals :)
     
  25. REPASSAC

    REPASSAC
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2011
    Messages:
    2,990
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Perchede 32460
    Ratings:
    +456
    Are any of the channels receivable on the Sky unit on the following link look at the first column and for frequencies < 17700 with a H in the first column:
    http://www.lyngsat.com/Astra-2E-2F-2G.html

    If a freesat tune was done at the brothers then the unit should be tuned. Does pressing guide or channel up/down do anything?

    My logic would say that if the Sky unit is working on channels on that list marked in the first column as "UK" rather than "Europe KU" I would rule out the dish. That leaves cabling, Connections and LNB. Running two new cables to the LNB with good connectors would be my next step, which if a problem remains it would leave only the LNB.
     
  26. TJT1

    TJT1
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2011
    Messages:
    4,828
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    East Sussex, UK
    Ratings:
    +1,139
    What I can't understand is that the OP says it does not work when connected to the cables that feed his working sky box. If the sky box works, that surely indicates that the LNB and dish setup are pretty much OK.
     
  27. Railway

    Railway
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    721
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Ratings:
    +105
    Could it be something to do with the LNB power 13 volt or 18 volt not being supplied correctly by Humax box?
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2015
  28. TJT1

    TJT1
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2011
    Messages:
    4,828
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    East Sussex, UK
    Ratings:
    +1,139
    :confused:But the Humax box works OK at his brother's gaff. :confused:
    Wonder if it's the centre core of the co-ax not being long enough for the Hummy, but OK for the Sky box. (Really grasping at straws here). Hmmmm
     
  29. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2006
    Messages:
    24,620
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Redditch
    Ratings:
    +4,208
    Definite possibility, especially if the connections are WF65 shotgun. The centre core is very thin. Some recommend a small kink in the centre conductor (no kinky comments please :) )
     
  30. Draygor

    Draygor
    Novice Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2015
    Messages:
    11
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    Brecon
    Ratings:
    +0
    How do
    How can I tell what connections I have on the cables? They are what the sky engineer installed - does that indicate what they might be?
     

Share This Page

Loading...