1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Fox to join Warner in end of rental window

Discussion in 'Movie Forum' started by jono, Jan 16, 2003.

  1. jono

    jono
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2002
    Messages:
    22
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Ratings:
    +0
    http://hive4media.com/index.cfm

    'Fox Pathe, which distributes 20th Century Fox products outsides the United States, will follow in the footsteps of Warner Home Video in the United Kingdom by eliminating a rental window on all video product and charging rental dealers a premium price for the right to rent titles, according to reports coming from the United Kingdom.

    Fox’s entry into the pricing scheme — which saw a widespread boycott among many independent retailers in the region and chains including market leader Blockbuster of Warner titles after it instituted a similar policy last summer — could possible start with Fox Pathe upcoming release of Tom Hanks starrer The Road to Perdition, due in the U.K. in a few months.

    Fox executives are talking to retailers in the U.K. about the pricing change and the supplier is looking at expanding it to other European markets like Italy and France, Gary Ferguson, SVP Fox Home Entertainment Europe, told The Hollywood Reporter.

    Rental dealers in the country worry — as they did after the Warner scheme launched last year — that more suppliers will institute this type of pricing plan, which is legal in the region thanks to the lack of a law like the United States’ First Sale Doctrine and the existence of the Rental Right Directive, a European law that allows suppliers of video content to control how their product is used in the marketplace.

    Fox’s rental window, like other suppliers’. has been shrinking over the past year in the U.K. from the traditional six months to as little as three months.'
     
  2. bobbles

    bobbles
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    top stuff :)
     
  3. James45

    James45
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2002
    Messages:
    2,844
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    59
    Location:
    Taking Care of Business
    Ratings:
    +0
    how is that good? it means chain video shops boycotting Fox releases as well as Warner, if this keeps up they'll be nothing left on the shelves of video shops.
     
  4. Squirrel God

    Squirrel God
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I don't understand.

    Are they going to charge rental stores more now they've eliminated the rental window?

    Is this why they would boycott? :confused:
     
  5. James45

    James45
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2002
    Messages:
    2,844
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    59
    Location:
    Taking Care of Business
    Ratings:
    +0
    Netscape won't let me get thread addresses to post a link but Garrett started a thread called Blockbuster vs Warner a while back, all the details are in that.
     
  6. Squirrel God

    Squirrel God
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I found that thread James and had a look - thanks :)

    I'm in agreement with Bobbles - it's great stuff. Once rental stores stop being silly, they will be forced to reduce their rental prices to more appropriate levels through the glorious mechanism of competition, thus encouraging people to rent that way, rather than relying on the 'rental exclusivity period' (which is a nonsense anyway what with R1 DVDs often being available far in advance of R2 rental releases anyway). That can only be a good thing. Maybe they'll make sure all their DVDs are in widescreen as well.
     
  7. Geezer

    Geezer
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2002
    Messages:
    2,813
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Ratings:
    +25
    Does sound like good news, if it happens of course.
     
  8. PoochJD

    PoochJD
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2000
    Messages:
    10,992
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Norwich
    Ratings:
    +1,862
    HI,

    The idea of loosing the rental window, is great!

    However, this does mean that most video rental stores will NOT be willing to stock Fox titles if they have to pay more to stock a rental version, over a release version.

    And with Warner's not letting rental stores rent out retail copies, basically the only people who loose out, are us - the customers.

    There are times when I'd rather rent a title first, than risk buying it "sight unseen".

    Ultimately, therefore, I don't think this is good news at all, in the long-term!

    Pooch
     
  9. Squirrel God

    Squirrel God
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    In the SHORT term it's not good news as there'll be fewer titles available for rent.

    But in the LONG term it IS good news because there's no way that rental stores can refuse to stock all Fox and Warner Bros titles as there wouldn't be much left to rent if they did! Plus other studios will surely follow suit soon as well ;)
     
  10. James45

    James45
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2002
    Messages:
    2,844
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    59
    Location:
    Taking Care of Business
    Ratings:
    +0
    but surely video shops have got to find a way to protect themselves against the constantly falling prices of the video/dvd retail market, I always thought the rental window was good for this purpose. it seemed to me warner are just chancing their arm and seeing how much they can get away with.
     
  11. Squirrel God

    Squirrel God
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Yeah, they have to make a profit, but I think rental charges are too high anyway and the way for these stores to make a profit is to increase their customer base and rent more copies (one way to do this is by ensuring they're cheaper than everyone else in the local area), not by relying on a practice that gives consumers less choice (i.e. because they can't buy it yet) and enables stores to exploit with high rental prices during the rental window period.

    That's how I see it anyway. Certainly if rentals were cheaper, I would rent :)
     
  12. James45

    James45
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2002
    Messages:
    2,844
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    59
    Location:
    Taking Care of Business
    Ratings:
    +0
    that's a good point Blockbuster have always been ridiculously expensive. I pay £3.25 for a new release which is high enough but don't BB charge something like £4?
     
  13. Lux

    Lux
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2002
    Messages:
    759
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Luxembourg
    Ratings:
    +1
    I agree with your last part but as warner has very good prices on their DVDs (rrp of 15.99 on a lot of new films and 19.99 on 2disc SE) so u can pick those dvds up for a bit more then a tenner. that's 2-3 rentals. In those cases I just buy. usually when I rent a film coz I really wanna see it I end up buying it anyway.

    and BBs 4 quid are criminal!!
     
  14. Harj

    Harj
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2001
    Messages:
    1,164
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +34
    An insider in Blockbusters I know of (basically he works in a branch) said the reason behind warner bros pull out was to do with pushing movies onto pay-per view via Sky, makes some sense for them to pull out of the rental market if they were going to do that.
     
  15. bobbles

    bobbles
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    does the rental window occur in America?

    If so does surely this means R1 will be appearing sooner too

    personally I do not rent, if it was a film I was unsure about and didn't see it at cinema then I would wait for it to appear on sky movies

    I've got one of those UGC passes so I end up seeing most things at the cinema
     
  16. jono

    jono
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2002
    Messages:
    22
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Ratings:
    +0
    There is no rental window in America for Dvd's
     
  17. pete18

    pete18
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2002
    Messages:
    1,078
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Location:
    Torquay
    Ratings:
    +3
    To me video companies charge to high prices for rental versions,

    I have a shop that hires out videos and dvd's, to me if they get rid of the rental window this will force smaller retail video shops to go out of business because more people will buy the video rather than renting it,
     
  18. Shoka

    Shoka
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2002
    Messages:
    4,327
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Surrey
    Ratings:
    +239
    Valid point but why should a renatl shop have to pay the stupid prices for rental versions.

    Rental DVD's cost around £70 new, and the retail release is often a superior version. I dont think the rental market will suffer as much as every one thinks.

    there are times when people just want to rent a DVD and not buy it, and surely rental shops will be able to recoop some of the lost rental charges in the 50 odd quid they have saved in the purchase price.
     
  19. Lux

    Lux
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2002
    Messages:
    759
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Luxembourg
    Ratings:
    +1
    at the moment rental stores pay about 70quid for rental disc that have a rental window. (ie a lot of Fox, Universal titles) they are glad to pay that price as they are the only ones who have them for nearly 6 months and sure as h*ll can recoup the money.
    Now it seems as for day and date releases (ie rental and retail at the same time) they pay only the normal retail price.


    U alsways have to remember that most people ,ie not us here, don't want to buy hundreds of DVDs. hence they will always rent DVDs (and VHS). and I don't think that rental shops lose so much by losing us as customers. in the same way that studios in the UK don't lose too much money to the R1 market as only a minority import their DVDs.
     
  20. bobbles

    bobbles
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I can't see many people going out and renting a dvd that they intend to buy anyway, even if it meant waiting 6 months

    I really can not see the window closing makeing all that much difference

    Why don't BB adopt a policy of if you rent and then want to buy the rental price comes off the cost of the dvd

    still prob more expensive than other retailers but the might get some business out of it

    (do they do this with video games)

    If BB etc can survive in the US with no window, why not here?

    I've personally not rented for at least a few years, what is the ratio to dvds to videos now in your average BB. Has dvd taken a lead?
     
  21. Lux

    Lux
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2002
    Messages:
    759
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Luxembourg
    Ratings:
    +1
    Personnaly I still rent. but only because I'm an Uni and my DVDs are nearly all at home. so if I get tired of watching the 30odd DVDs I brought with me I need new ones.
    As for the ratio. I can only speak for my Local Hollywood movie store. Since I joined (2years ago) the DVD section has dramatically increased fromabout 10% to 50%. Last time I asked the owner/employee about the ration they rent. He said that there are still a lot VHS going out but it should be in the 50:50 region.
    Yet they charge less than BB:
    2.5£ a night for new releases. 1.5 weekly for older titles or 5dvds for 5quid for a week. and also a same day return policy for 1.25quid any title. and in tuesdays every title is only 1quid.
    So that's not too bad.
     
  22. bowenjones

    bowenjones
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,787
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Wales
    Ratings:
    +447
    The problem is (and this is why the rental stores are up in
    arms over this issue) the fact that they still have to pay the
    studios £70 for rental copies at the same time you can buy
    them. With rental charges around £3.50 - £4.00 they are
    worried that people will choose to buy rather than rent especially
    when you consider that you can get most dvd's for about £12
    online.
    Whether reducing rental charges will encourage more people
    to rent is neither here or there as the Blockbusters of this world
    make most of their profits through "rental windows".
    Although I'm all for the abolition of rental windows, I don't think
    it's fair that the studios should charge the rental companies
    such an extortianate ammount when we can get them a lot
    cheaper.
    I think that you all agree that it will be a very sad day if rental
    companies cease to trade because of their considerably reduced
    profit margins.
     
  23. James45

    James45
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2002
    Messages:
    2,844
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    59
    Location:
    Taking Care of Business
    Ratings:
    +0
    but at the same time, video rental shops are making money off of these titles so I think there should be a premium, just not THAT much of a premium.
     
  24. Lux

    Lux
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2002
    Messages:
    759
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Luxembourg
    Ratings:
    +1
    But I also said b4 that most people won't buy the DVD. People are scared of owing to many DVDs. Most people I know who own DVDs have about 2-10 not 200. they won't just buy the DVD. they will rent it.

    Also about the high prices of rental titles even when rental window is scrapped: They keep the copies for quite some time. rent out a lot charge a lot and after that sell them as exrental for for the same price normal shops sell new ones. So I think that rental stores get enough money even out of those DVDs.
    I do agree that they have problems with big releases though. If one rental shop buys 30dvds to cover the first few weeks of frantic spiderman/LOTR/... rentals they will soon have to sell 15 ofem to make place for other new releases. and those 15copies will not make as much money as the remaining 15 and may lead to a loss. (which I think will be made up buy the rental of the other 15copies).
    I for me hate rental windows. I bought Insomnia R1 for the same price it will be here when it comes out 6 months later with a few months rental window. Then again it doesn't matter that much. If I don't get here what I want I go R1, R4 or other R2, simple
     
  25. PoochJD

    PoochJD
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2000
    Messages:
    10,992
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Norwich
    Ratings:
    +1,862
    Hi Again,

    Interesting points, though I don't agree with them.

    The two problems I have are:

    1) Small, independant rental stores, are the ones who loose out most of all, not the giants like "Blockbuster".

    2) If Fox and Warner want to stop the rental windows altogether, then they should be generous to the rental stores, and let them:
    - buy the retail copies to rent
    - let them sell rental copies (if they so wish to do so)
    - charge only a smaller amount to buy a rental copy, not the £70 or so, they get charged now.

    At the moment, Warners are fobidding rental stores from doing any of this, and hence are shooting themselves and the customers in the feet. This isn't fair!

    There will ultimately be times when I would rather pay £3-50 to rent a film, to see if it's worth me buying it or not, than risk spending £14 and upwards, only to find out the film is lousy. Something that many recent films have been, I might add, e.g. "Spider-Man", "Star Wars 2", "Birthday Girl", etc, etc.

    It should not be for two-faced conglomerates liek Warners and Fox to dictate where or when we can buy or rent! Imagine if the same principle was applied to other areas of entertainment, e.g. CD's or cinema chains.

    What would happen if Warner's decided to only let their own chain of cinemas show their films, and no one else? What if Fox dictated that all their DVD's must be bought online, and not from any where else?

    It might sound silly, but this is effectively what is happening! Think about it!

    Pooch
     
  26. Lux

    Lux
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2002
    Messages:
    759
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Luxembourg
    Ratings:
    +1
    Well pooch I believe your points are as valid as mine. Just depends what side u are standing on. I believe that it is unfair that small independent rental stores have to pay as much as big ones do.
    About the cinemas. I am used to not finding a lot of films in my cinema (odeon in Leicester) Now that is not due to Warner not willing to show or Fox charging too much. It's just about some people who take that decision on economic grounds.
    So I am not that worried that I can't find certain films in my rental shop either.

    As for warners policy on rental titles: I think rental stores should be allowed to sell exrental discs.
    +Since their new policy their prices have gone down quite a bit. (ocean11 for 11.99 on the web or less that can't be bad)
     
  27. Squirrel God

    Squirrel God
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    You see, if new releases were just a little cheaper, say £10, then we could do away with rentals altogether.

    I wouldn't shed a tear at all and it would be great for the consumer who would be rewarded with cheaper retail prices.

    Renting is an ancient idea anyway, born of the days when video tapes cost hundreds of pounds to buy so no-one would buy them new except the most ardent fans of a particular movie.

    I'm amazed it's survived this long. After all, who on earth would pay to rent a book these days eh? ;)

    Perhaps the film studios would love to do away with rentals too and this is why they are all turning to these new policies. It would stop a few pirates too, who rent DVDs just to copy them (which is exactly what used to happen with VHS rentals).
     
  28. bowenjones

    bowenjones
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,787
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Wales
    Ratings:
    +447
    Believe it or not, there are an awful lot of people in this country
    who just can't afford to pay even a tenner for a dvd.
    These are the people who have no other choice but to rent.
    It's o.k. for us who have decent jobs and are able to buy
    dvd's as and when we choose but spare a thought for those
    more unfortunate.
    What I'm saying is that renting is as important to the consumer
    as buying. Everybody's circumstance is different and therefore
    we should be thankfull for the choice.
    Let's hope the studios realise this and give the rental companies
    a fairer deal than they are currently getting with the ridiculous
    ammount they have to pay for rental copies.
     
  29. Squirrel God

    Squirrel God
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Would these be the same people who can't afford to pay a tenner for a CD and therefore rent their CDs?

    Not trying to be awkward mate, just making a point :)
     
  30. bowenjones

    bowenjones
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,787
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Wales
    Ratings:
    +447
    No, these are the same people who can only afford to listen
    to music on the radio.
    I'm not getting at you S.G. I am just trying to make the point
    that choice is a wonderfull thing.
     

Share This Page

Loading...