Forum members scaring me from buying new television

Jaspers12

Standard Member
I bought my current television April 2006 Pioneer 436 pde without the side speakers for £2,2000 which at the time was excellent price as was £2,400 . At the time purchased along with Cyrus mono amplifiers and CD player and receiver with a spectral stand which has the tv supported with a rear bracket and still looks modern with the excellent PMC OB1 speakers . At the time the tv choice was easy as was seen as the best available .
I have been looking for a couple of years now and nearly purchased the panasonic GZ1000 a couple of years ago ,saw it side by side of LG C9 and preferred it . But on coming home looking at the picture quality of the Pioneer and reading a lot about burn in didn't go ahead .
Now please do not shout at me . I do not know a lot about technical stuff and rely heavily on advice from the likes of What HI FI and forums like this . I do not understand much of how things work but do know what I like when I see or hear it .
What confounds me on the Forum is no one is speaking about reliability . Any time I spend above £100 I like to learn as much as I can before buying . The people on this Forum appear to be far richer or change their televisions more often than I can comprehend . I have read as much as possible on here to try to pick a new tv but people comments range from buyers not understanding the technology (that's me ) or from faulty panel comments to bright rooms/dark rooms (my room is light in the day and dark at night ,seriously have huge windows in living room even with the current curtains drawn .) My budget is flexible but require the tv to last ! I am not a gamer and would not know how to .
Also please do not criticise me, but I would estimate my current set has around 70,000 hours on it (not put a foot wrong ) and is on all day and most of the night . I was looking at 55 inch tv , the Sony 9505 or if Oled Sony A8H or AG9 or the Samsung A95 with the one connect box (which I have on my Pioneer ). I do use the tv a lot every day (Working from home and also have mobility issues ). I do like the sound of the new Panasonic JZ1500 as same panel as the JZ2000 .
Would be hoping to keep same Spectral stand as I love it ,it has two black glass shelves and two silver legs in the middle going from the bottom up to support the tv (will try to post picture but hopeless with tech ).
So knowing all of this I now find myself too scared to buy anything . The 9505 is really cheap , or could go for the Sony
A 80J . All other items would be the same for sound connections or do I need to change something in the set up . Watch Netflix and Now and very rarely Iplayer , my Amazon prime has stopped working on the tv but still works on the Apple I Mac .
Help please . Budget flexible and do not think I have room for 65 inch .
 

Jaspers12

Standard Member
Picture of current set up but moved houses since
 

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Jaspers12

Standard Member
Main requirements ;
Reliability , Ease of use ( lot of advice on switching modes and settings depending on what you watch ) and also there seems to be people talking about if you coming from Plasma to a new tv and being dissatisfied ?
Am I expecting too much ?
If I am spending £1-2 k I need to see value for money.
 
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tvdavid

Well-known Member
the xh95 is a good TV and will be fine daytime the oled will be better in the dark though. its a hard choice but these are all top tvs.
 
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Dodgexander

Moderator
I think reliability is down like most consumer electronics but TVs should still last years, luckily retailers are bundling TVs often with 5-6 year warranties. Some retailers like tps.uk.com 7 years!
The only places I've seen ratings for reliability are which? magazine (have to pay to view article) or Consumer reports (in the USA).

If you want to leave the TV on all day and not have to think about the kind of content being used, or about turning the TV off to perform a refresh cycle then OLED is perhaps not for you and you'd be best looking at an LCD TV instead.

The Sony XH9505 mentioned already would be a good option and great value for money at the moment.

Motion - yes there are fundamental differences that you will have to get used too. Nothing is as fluid without changing settings as a Plasma, but you should be able to adjust to it.

EDIT* in case you look it up, the 55" and larger Sony XH9505 have adjustable feet. In pictures you may see the outside configuration, but you can instead put the feet on the inside to use less space.
 
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Jaspers12

Standard Member
DODGEXANDER. Thank you for the above . I have looked and looked at all I mentioned above . I have watched all available Youtube videos on all of them and to my old eyes cannot see much difference in picture quality . I had looked previously in person at the Panasonic and LG and preferred the colours on the Panasonic . I went at the end of April to Curry's (no I will not buy from them ,very bad experience in the past ) but they are near and stock most brands .They did not have any Sony A80j /A90j 's in yet ,actually had mostly 2020's tv's on show . I did like the Sony A8H and also the Samsung 95T .Salesman although very nice was directing me towards the LG brand . As stated not a gamer so do not need most up to date features . On coming home read reviews that complained about the very thin one connect cable on the Samsung 2020 model ,which has been replaced by a thicker cable this year .
Also read reviews about burn in being a thing of the past with others still warning of risk . I treat all of my things with kid gloves and could adapt to switching panel off every 4 or so hours , but for how long ? I do not watch anything that has permernant logo's on the screen .
I also do not understand the requirement for thinness of the screen . Overall my current tv is almost as thin as current tv's when you look at the thickness of the working parts .
So will I see a huge upgrade with Sony 9505 or Samsung 95t or SonyA8H or Sony A80J (See no real difference with the A90J ,for the money involved )
As posted I'm at an impasse and talking myself in and out of going forward .
 
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Dodgexander

Moderator
At the moment there's a transition going on between old and new models. The older models such as the aforementioned Sony XH9505, Samsung Q95T or Sony A8H are all models a year old now. They are at the end of their shelf life and have a healthy discount because of this.

New models such as the Sony A80J or A90J are newly released, and still carry a premium.

To put it simply, if you do feel you want to wait to buy 2021 stock to get more future proofing then you are best waiting to buy when the prices come down, rather than spending your money on them now when they are so expensive.

From a picture quality perspective there's no doubt about it, OLED is more of a natural successor to Plasma than LCD is. Whilst LCD TVs have improved and still retain some advantages, its still the same technology used today as it was when you bought your current TV.

But there are some differences in how burn in can happen on Plasma vs OLED, although generally those who did not have a problem with Plasma do not have a problem with OLED. The main difference is the effect is cumulative on an OLED, whereas on Plasma it was all to do with spending too much time in a single session using content with static elements.

With both technologies you had to think about how you used the TV, but with OLED you have to understand if you do use content with static elements regularly, it will put you at risk with burn in for the long term, that could mean things that previously weren't a problem on a Plasma like watching a news channel for 30mins each day, every day can eventually lead to issues on OLED. To use a comparison with Plasma, perhaps watching that channel as a one-off, but instead for a long session could be problematic.

OLED TVs when turned into standby have the ability to refresh all of their pixels, they do this automatically when you turn the TV into standby, be that 4h, 8h or whenever and it usually takes up to an hour. Most models recommend you turn the TV into standby in to 4h. If you can turn it off every 4h and let it perform its cycle as much as possible, it will help reduce the risk in the long term. Most OLEDs enter this refresh mode once you've turned the TV into standby immediately, but Sony TVs will wait some time after not using the TV, so if you have the TV on for long periods of time during the day it may only be able to refresh each time you turn it off at night rather than during the day.

On the topic of durability, newer OLED TVs sold in 2021 ranges such as the Sony A80J or A90J do have a new panel type that's said to be more durable, so if that's important, it may be another reason to wait to buy those models.

So in my own opinion, burn in is certainly not something you can just brush under the carpet and say it isn't an issue...I get where some people are coming from when they say it because to most people it isn't an issue, but I think its important to understand what causes it, and how it can happen so you are not one of the users who gets a problem later, without realising how it may happen first.

There are 3 tiers of OLEDs

Basic - All 2020 models, and most 2021 models.
Mid - TVs like the LG G1, Sony A80J and Panasonic JZ1500. These TVs come with the new type of panel.
High - TVs like the Sony A90J and Panasonic JZ2000. These TVs come with the new type of panel + a cooling backplate which helps the TV reach higher brightness. These TVs have better HDR picture quality since they can get brighter.
 
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Jaspers12

Standard Member
Dodgexander thank you , I do realise some models are new releases and would be prepared to wait until they drop in price towards the end of the year . My slight reluctance over LCD tv's comes from when I bought my Plasma and remember negativity around the technology but cannot remember what the issues were . I would like to buy the best tv and Oled picture quality being spoken about in droves on here ,however if as you say I will need to switch the tv off for long periods after four hours or more of watching then it is not for me at all . I also do recognise that perhaps I have been spoilt with the longevity of my current tv but would expect 10 years out of any new tv .
 
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JustTheFacts

Active Member
“Anxiety is a thin stream of fear trickling through the mind. If encouraged, it cuts a channel into which all other thoughts are drained.”
—Arthur Somers Roche

Most people come to their conclusion about the severity of OLED Burn In based on these factors.

  1. Testing done by rtings.com on 2017 OLED TVs,
  2. The dialog that was started in 2015 and continues until this day about "experts" either saying it is a problem or that it isn't a problem.
  3. Reports' of 2017 and older TVs experiencing burn in? Almost all of the reports of burn in are on 2017 and older TVs.
  4. Personally experienced burn in on a 2017 or older OLED
  5. Various conspiracy theories. LG doesn’t provide a 10 year OLED Burn In warranty because they know OLED BURN IN is a real problem. The manufacturers, retailers, and professional reviewers are working together to mislead the public, otherwise they would report how widespread OLED burn in is.
  6. The lack of reports of 2018 and newer OLEDs experiencing burn. This includes all manufactures of OLED TVs. All of the manufacturers use OLED supplied panels.
  7. Burn in on 2018 and newer OLED TVs hasn’t happened yet, no one knoweth the hour or the day, but Armageddon is coming.
  8. Assumption that the manufacturing quality improved to a six sigma level. No more panel lottery. This is based on the fact that LG has reported to rtings.com that they had manufacturing quality issues in 2017 and the reports of burn in became practically non existent in 2018.
  9. All of these manufacturers use different software but the same hardware, LG supplied OLED panels. Because there are practically zero reports of OLED Burn In for all manufacturers using 2018 and newer OLED supplied panels it may have more to do with the hardware (LG supplied OLED panels) than software.
  10. Engineering (pixel size -aperture ratio} and better heat sinks. Less heat generated and better ways or dissipating the heat that is generated. The pixel size has a huge effect, since the improvement is exponentially related; H = I2Rt.
  11. "Older OLED displays used separate, colored pixels. However, manufacturers soon realized that different colored subpixels aged at different rates, particularly blue and red. LG Display decided to use a grid of white LEDs, which age at the same rate. Colored filters are then used to create the four separate subpixels of red, green, blue, and white." ITEM #10 from Tim Brookes of HOW-To Geek
  12. Different isotopes and additives for pixel material. Pixels more durable.
  13. Software improvements. Pixel refresh, logo luminence, screen saver.
  14. All TVs, LEDs and OLEDs, have a failure rate of between 10 to 20 percent after 5 years depending on the manufacturer. If you find one hundred 2018 OLED TVs with reported OLED Burn In on social media that would be .003% of the OLEDs sold when you consider 3 million OLEDs were sold in 2018. OLED Burn In is so insignificant compared to the probability of other issues you may have with your OLED TV that it is no longer a reasonable concern.
You now have the 14 points to ponder. Analyze the points yourself. Let yourself be the “expert”.
 
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Jaspers12

Standard Member
Justthefacts Thankyou for the above , I do realise that when something goes wrong people are more likely to let the world know and speak,or type , the loudest ,whilst those happy with their purchases are just enjoying them .
Once I do purchase something I stop looking on line at the product .
Do the retailers mention any of the care you need to take at point of sale? .
 
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Dodgexander

Moderator
Do the retailers mention any of the care you need to take at point of sale? .
They don't, and that's something that is really alarming considering everything else does, including the warnings in the TVs manuals. I've known people on the forum who've literally had no clue, only later to receive burn in because they weren't aware of how it can happen.

There are also some stories of people who've received burn in stating they haven't used their TVs for anything other than normal use, but its really hard to measure what they consider to be normal.

On top of this, as documented in the rtings.com real life burn in test there was a problem with some 2017 models which meant the TVs were burning faster they should do, LG admitted to it and replaced peoples TVs who had the problem.

Food for thought would be buying your OLED from John Lewis together with the extra insurance plan they offer which covers burn in. You may even be able to buy insurance independently that classifies it in their policy as accidental use, but you must check with the insurers terms beforehand to be sure. This may even include full-house electronic insurance coverage.

LG are also offering a panel warranty on their G1 model of 5 years, they state any panel issues caused by 'normal use' will be covered under their warranty. I see this more as a vote of confidence in their new panel technology (tier 2 and 3 OLEDs I mentioned above) rather than anything else.
 
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Jaspers12

Standard Member
Dodgexander, Your reference about normal use has resonated with me that I definetly do not fall into that category. I would consider the extra insurance from John Lewis but was hoping to buy from local retailer .
 
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