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Forget about PAL, go the NTSC way

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by AndersR, Sep 17, 2003.

  1. AndersR

    AndersR
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    I seems likely that we shall never get a decent working pal-prog display. On the other hand there is no such problem with NTSC, so why not ditch all those pal dvd's and buy the R1 version, it would be so much easier. Maybe it's difficult to find the R1 discs for sale in europe, so you would have to import them, but surely this is a smal problem that can be solved.
    With NTSC you can easily find a progressive display, whether it's a normal crt, a rptv or a front projector.


    If we look into the future, progressive scan is not the only 'must have' technology- we are quickly moving into HD terretory promising high resolutions of 720p and 1080p. In the case of dvd, this can be acheived through scaling. But once again I suspect these standards are tailored for NTSC material, ex. 480x1.5=720.

    The new digital display technology based on the use of lcd or dlp panels is also made to fit NTSC resolutions - ideal if you want a one to one pixel mapping.
    I believe that Texas Instruments has released a new panel that is ...? x 576, making it perfect for PAL material, but still this is only one panel out of a bunch, and it's probably going to be expensive.

    If you chose NTSC you could even start importing stuff from the US, though crt and rptv's are a little difficult to ship around. Also, in the US they always have the newest technology long before it gets to europe.

    There are many arguments for chosing either R1 or R2 dvd's for quality, but it the end the display sets the bounds, and it seem that NTSC is most favored in this respect.

    Therefore should our adwise to new HT entusiasts be, that they should buy R1 dvds?
     
  2. Demon

    Demon
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    Interesting point. :)

    Of course, the aim of the game is to get as much picture detail as possible, and since NTSC has by its very nature got less information, then surely we should be looking at PAL still? and here is why

    most of the new plasma panels are coming in higher resolutions that appear completely independant of NTSC or PAL limitations..

    e.g. 1366 x 768
    and
    1024 x 768

    And its these higher resolution panels that are acclaimed to have better picture definition when given an appropriate source.

    and as far as 720p/1080p is concerned, its not so straight cut, 720 (1.5 * 480) and 1080 (2.25*480) are not 'easy interpolations', they are just as bad, or worse then PAL scaled up... I suspect that the interpolation algorithm would favour PAL, since it has more info in the picture, so has less to interpolate!!!

    I do agree that HDTV is nice, and we need it, but in order to get a decent step in performance, we need higher resolution software, since re-sampling current DVD upto a higher res no doubt look better, but will be no-where near a proper full res source.

    just some more food for thought...
     
  3. Dimmy

    Dimmy
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    Just buy the R2 NTSC Japanese release :)
     
  4. cosaw

    cosaw
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    There's no reason why a new PAL res shouldn't be x720 is there?

    I would hope that a new standard for HD would have more foresight. i.e. be all encompasing, one format, one spec, thereafter let software/hardware/display device/audio device process the original most film like source to get the best result. As demon pointed out there's bound to be scaling somewhere with all these fixed pixel devices!

    For example, encode it (for film): 24 frames per second, original speed/pitch soundtrack, 720 lines progressive. Forget PAL vs NTSC.

    Problems could then be solved like: pitch correction, pull down issues, playback rate.

    As I've said previously the best solution, is keep the source as close to the original and let advancing technoogy do the rest. The technology is there surely?

    Anyway all we can do is hope!

    cosaw
     
  5. AndersR

    AndersR
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    I agree that it would be best to get the source material raised to a common high standard like 720p or 1080p, and then just let manufactorers sort out the technological issues.
    I think the important point is to have the same standard worldwide for movie watching so we can all benefit from the newest technology, because it's really frustrating to read about all the good 'stuff' in the US that takes ages before getting to europe. The reason why they get all the good stuff in the US is because it is a bigger market, so I say: why not merge the american and european hometheater market.
    This should be possible, since after all the only really difference between NTSC and PAL originates from the the power source 110v/60hz versus 230v/50hz. This problem can be fixed with a cheap mains conditioner.
    By the way why dont we step up from 50hz to 60hz, since most PAL televisions of today are capable of going to the higher frequency. Then we could get rid of the 50hz flicker and still avoid the 100hz pixelation problems.
     
  6. cosaw

    cosaw
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    AndersR, I seem to have found someone with similar sentimets at last. 1080p I like the sound of that!

    That's certainly my thinking. And as you say different power sources shouldn't contribute a problem these days.

    Even better than that, your PC monitor can do it so why shouldn't your telly (using the example for film): 24fps x 2 = 48Hz, 24fps x 3 = 72Hz, 24fps x 4 = 96Hz, and as you say avoiding current 100Hz pixelation problems because no interpolation of interlaced frames needs to be done.

    Keep the refresh rate a factor of the original film or video for the best results! E.g. a factor of 3 would give 72Hz, 75Hz, or 90Hz for respective frame rates of the original source of 24, 25, and 30 frames per second.
     

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