For Dummies guide to eArc?

LandsB

Novice Member
I apologize for the stupidity of the question. I guess I'm finally getting too old for all this...

I have a Samsung tv. I really want to control the volume from my remote. My old Vizio had RCA jacks that work perfectly. Unfortunately, Samsung doesn't even have a headphone jack I could rig up. It only has optical (which can't be variable) and eArc.

My old Denon receiver's HDMI ports don't support Arc. I'm willing to buy a new receiver eventually to get the variable audio, but I suddenly realized I don't know how the heck that would work! The HDMI Arc port on the tv is an input, not output. Does that mean I'll need to connect my sources to the receiver, and run the audio and video through it? That doesn't make sense as what would you do for the native apps?

Could anyone give me a breakdown of what this type of setup would look like?

Greatly appreciated!
 

Mark.Yudkin

Distinguished Member
Your old Denon AVR has an optical in and a volume control, your TV has an optical out (fixed level, of course). Just hook up an optical cable and everything will work just wonderfully. You'll even get surround sound to the Denon, which you previously didn't have with the RCA connectivity.

You can of course upgrade your AVR, but it seems to me to be a large expense just to get TV audio to the AVR via HDMI so that you can use the Samsung's remote control to adjust the AVR's volume (HDMI CEC performs this magic, at least for some people).

(e)ARC means Audio RETURN Channel. The HDMI is an input from the AVR to the TV, the ARC part sends the audio back from the TV to the AVR ("return"). The idea behind eARC is that you can connect your sources to the AVR or the TV and it makes no difference. However Samsung TVs cannot transmit DTS formats over ARC (please don't ask). Hence it's probably best to connect your HD sources to the AVR rather than the Samsung TV and run that A/V through the AVR, limiting eARC to TV sound, including its apps.
 

LandsB

Novice Member
Your old Denon AVR has an optical in and a volume control, your TV has an optical out (fixed level, of course). Just hook up an optical cable and everything will work just wonderfully. You'll even get surround sound to the Denon, which you previously didn't have with the RCA connectivity.

You can of course upgrade your AVR, but it seems to me to be a large expense just to get TV audio to the AVR via HDMI so that you can use the Samsung's remote control to adjust the AVR's volume (HDMI CEC performs this magic, at least for some people).

(e)ARC means Audio RETURN Channel. The HDMI is an input from the AVR to the TV, the ARC part sends the audio back from the TV to the AVR ("return"). The idea behind eARC is that you can connect your sources to the AVR or the TV and it makes no difference. However Samsung TVs cannot transmit DTS formats over ARC (please don't ask). Hence it's probably best to connect your HD sources to the AVR rather than the Samsung TV and run that A/V through the AVR, limiting eARC to TV sound, including its apps.
Thank you - I appreciate the response.

I know it doesn't fit everyone's use case, but I am constantly having to adjust the volume up and down, and really don't want to have to pick up the Denon remove every time I have to do it. That works ok for watching a movie, but that's honestly about 5% of our viewing time.

I wish they would just include other output options, even if that wouldn't support every audio surround format.

So it sounds like I could in fact run a single HDMI cable to my Denon and what would send the audio signal (correct me if I'm wrong there)
 

Mark.Yudkin

Distinguished Member
So it sounds like I could in fact run a single HDMI cable to my Denon and what would send the audio signal (correct me if I'm wrong there)
Only if your unidentified Denon supports ARC, which you said it didn't. You could also control the Denon's volume from the Samsung's remote control if the Denon supports CEC (and you enabled it), even though ARC wasn't supported or used. It's only if your AVR has no CEC that you need to use its remote control or purchase a new AVR.

Without knowing which model Denon AVR you have, I can't be more specific.

Samsung TVs have a lot of limitations in the audio space (limited connectivity, limited format support, absence of lip sync). Doing so keeps the price down, increasing sales. My recommendation is to check that a device fulfils your requirements before purchasing it; in your case, it's too late.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
eARC isn't the element responsible for the TV's remote being able to control the AV receiver's volume. This is facilitated by HDMI CEC and not ARC. Conventional ARC is dependant upon HDMI CEC for its functionality, but eARC wouldn't require it and can be used without HDMI CEC being engaged. HDMI CEC is commonly treferred to as HDMI Control and most TV manufacturers rename it with something they themselves came up with in order to make it appear as though it is something unique to their products. You can find out what most TV manufacturers call their implimentation of HDMI CEC here:



Both ARC and eARC enabled a enabled TV to convey audio sourced via that TV to an ARC compliant AV receiver or soundbar via the HDMI cable otherwise used to convey video from the AVR or soundbar to the TV. ARC or eARC repurposes the HDMI connection to convey just sound out from the TV's input to the AV receiver's HDMI output. Only one HDMI cable between the AV receiver and the TV would be required to convey video from the AVR to the TV or audio from the TV to the AVR. Both the TV and the AV receiver must be ARC or eARC enabled in order to utilise ARC or eARC though.
 
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dante01

Distinguished Member
There's also a way to benefit from the ARC or eARC capabilities of a TV even if your AV receiver is an older HDMI equipped model predating ARC. You can use an ARC audio extractor to convert the eARC audio stream to conventional HDMI:

Amazon product


This allows the ARC audio to be input into the AV receiver via one of the AV receiver's conventional HDMI inputs and wouldn't require the AV receiver to be ARC or eARC enabled.


by default 2022-05-19 at 12.40.20.png
 

LandsB

Novice Member
Only if your unidentified Denon supports ARC, which you said it didn't. You could also control the Denon's volume from the Samsung's remote control if the Denon supports CEC (and you enabled it), even though ARC wasn't supported or used. It's only if your AVR has no CEC that you need to use its remote control or purchase a new AVR.

Without knowing which model Denon AVR you have, I can't be more specific.

Samsung TVs have a lot of limitations in the audio space (limited connectivity, limited format support, absence of lip sync). Doing so keeps the price down, increasing sales. My recommendation is to check that a device fulfils your requirements before purchasing it; in your case, it's too late.

eARC isn't the element responsible for the TV's remote being able to control the AV receiver's volume. This is facilitated by HDMI CEC and not ARC. Conventional ARC is dependant upon HDMI CEC for its functionality, but eARC wouldn't require it and can be used without HDMI CEC being engaged. HDMI CEC is commonly treferred to as HDMI Control and most TV manufacturers rename it with something they themselves came up with in order to make it appear as though it is something unique to their products. You can find out what most TV manufacturers call their implimentation of HDMI CEC here:



Both ARC and eARC enabled a enabled TV to convey audio sourced via that TV to an ARC compliant AV receiver or soundbar via the HDMI cable otherwise used to convey video from the AVR or soundbar to the TV. ARC or eARC repurposes the HDMI connection to convey just sound out from the TV's input to the AV receiver's HDMI output. Only one HDMI cable between the AV receiver and the TV would be required to convey video from the AVR to the TV or audio from the TV to the AVR. Both the TV and the AV receiver must be ARC or eARC enabled in order to utilise ARC or eARC though.

e ARC or eA

Hot damn that's an incredible amount of great information. I now feel ok about posting as there is no chance I would have figured out any of that on my own.

For what it's worth, this is my Denon: AVR-s500bt

Interesting - it sounds like there's a chance an HDMI from the TV to the Denon might transmit a variable audio signal with my current setup. There's also the ARC adapter.

Now I need to figure out what will work. Does my current Denon provide a clue?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
The Denon AVR-S500BT is unfortunately not ARC or eARC enabled. If you wanted to output audio from your TV to the AV receiver then you'd have to use the TV's optical audio output to the AV receiver's optical audio input.


The JFMI output pnnthe AV receiverwould simply be utilised to convey video from sources connected to the AV recever through the AV receiver and out to the TV.

by default 2022-05-21 at 02.29.35.png




You cannot utilse ARC with your particular AVR,
 

Mark.Yudkin

Distinguished Member
Your AVR-S500BT has neither ARC nor CEC nor can it route UHD (4K). You will not be able to use the TV's remote control to alter the volume of the AVR unless the TV comes with a programmable remote that you can reprogram to target the AVR.

An optical cable from the TV to the AVR would be the simplest and cheapest solution, as explained in the AVR's manual. All non-4K sources should route through the AVR.

If you have 4K sources, if they have dual HDMI outputs you can connect the AV HDMI to the TV and the Audio HDMI to the AVR. If not, you have no solution with your current setup to transmit both 4K video and HD audio.

For full functionality you would need a new AVR. Whether you need full functionality is another question.
 

LandsB

Novice Member
The Denon AVR-S500BT is unfortunately not ARC or eARC enabled. If you wanted to output audio from your TV to the AV receiver then you'd have to use the TV's optical audio output to the AV receiver's optical audio input.


The JFMI output pnnthe AV receiverwould simply be utilised to convey video from sources connected to the AV recever through the AV receiver and out to the TV.

View attachment 1699306



You cannot utilse ARC with your particular AVR,

Your AVR-S500BT has neither ARC nor CEC nor can it route UHD (4K). You will not be able to use the TV's remote control to alter the volume of the AVR unless the TV comes with a programmable remote that you can reprogram to target the AVR.

An optical cable from the TV to the AVR would be the simplest and cheapest solution, as explained in the AVR's manual. All non-4K sources should route through the AVR.

If you have 4K sources, if they have dual HDMI outputs you can connect the AV HDMI to the TV and the Audio HDMI to the AVR. If not, you have no solution with your current setup to transmit both 4K video and HD audio.

For full functionality you would need a new AVR. Whether you need full functionality is another question.

Thanks to everyone for the very helpful feedback.

I understand why the latest TVs cater to mainly optical outs or ARC. There are a few TVs that do still have a headphone or RCA out, but the Samsung is my preference. I'll just have to decide what compromise I want to make.
 

LandsB

Novice Member
Although my solution didn't end up using HDMI and ARC, I still thought I'd share it just in case it helps someone down the road.

I use a Fire TV stick. Turns out that it will control my Denon, and the setup was very easy. The only downside (it seems) is that my option is to have the power and volume of the Denon using the remote. In a perfect world I'd like to still control the TV power and the Denon volume, but that's a very small downside.

I can now quickly adjust the volume without having to pick up the Denon remote, and carry it around in my pocket as I'm watching various youtube vids. The volume there really jumps varies.

Thanks again. The previous info will be helpful once I eventually use ARC.
 

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