Food collections outside Tesco

la gran siete

Distinguished Member
comes to something when a so called first world nation now has charities committed to providing food for those whose benefits have so callously been slashed.Makes me feel ashamed to be British.Today i donated £10 worth of food and will do so on a monthly basis to help those poor souls who are forced to choose between feeding themselves and paying all their bills. What makes me angry is knowing that the greed of the most heinous people in western civilisation , The Dick Fulds of this world,has gone "rewarded" as they live the life of utmost luxury living off their ill gotten gains whilst millions who have been screwed have lost their pensions their jobs and many now live in "tent cities"across the USA. Prison is not good enough for scumbags like Fulds. He should have all his assets removed and be forced to live a very pentitent and humble life
 

gibbsy

Moderator
I've mentioned this is previous threads. My wife has been given on an almost weekly basis, in the foyer of our local tesco. She asked if it was for the unemployed and was shocked when she was told that about a quarter went to working families.

The last time we gave food to a local charity was during the bitter miners' strike of 1984.
 
I've mentioned this is previous threads. My wife has been given on an almost weekly basis, in the foyer of our local tesco. She asked if it was for the unemployed and was shocked when she was told that about a quarter went to working families.

The last time we gave food to a local charity was during the bitter miners' strike of 1984.

But working families ARE getting poorer, that's why there's a concerted effort to blame the reduction of working families living standards on the poorest.

The tories, always pretty effective at divide and conquer, turn private sector against public & and by freezing working tax credits, turn the low paid against the unemployed.

Slowly, the message that the poorest people in society is responsible for the greed, irresponsibility and downright fraud of the wealthy is beginning taking hold.

It's just a crying shame that so many people don't have the wherewithall to see that.
 

sidicks

Banned
ChasH said:
Slowly, the message that the poorest people in society is responsible for the greed, irresponsibility and downright fraud of the wealthy is beginning taking hold.
The banks didn't make losses because of people continuing to pay their debts, they made losses due to people being greedy and borrowing more than they could afford to payback and NOT paying their debts...

Those to blame are those that were those in the above scenario, whether they were rich, poor or somewhere in the middle...

ChasH said:
It's just a crying shame that so many people don't have the wherewithall to see that.
It's a crying shame that so many people seem to think that borrowing money is the answer....
 

gibbsy

Moderator
The banks didn't make losses because of people continuing to pay their debts, they made losses due to people being greedy and borrowing more than they could afford to payback and NOT paying their debts...

Those to blame are those that were those in the above scenario, whether they were rich, poor or somewhere in the middle...


It's a crying shame that so many people seem to think that borrowing money is the answer....

I wish you'd stop being an apologist for the banking industry. It lied, it cheated and it payed itself outrageous bonuses. Pyramid selling at it's very best and as a result of it's greed has ruined the western economies. Government was at least complacent at worse nothing short of criminal and still is.

Not everyone borrowed to the hilt to fund their lifestyles. Even those who were thrifty have lost thousands. I am lucky perhaps, to be able to pay off any credit card bills that I have in full. I'll be damned if I give the lying thieving b******s a penny more than I have too. They've skimmed more than enough off me.
 
The banks didn't make losses because of people continuing to pay their debts, they made losses due to people being greedy and borrowing more than they could afford to payback and NOT paying their debts...

Oh sidicks, time and time again you come to the defense of those poor banking executives and traders who set out to "f*** the poor people".

You are a grade A "Boris". You have an ideology that never deviates from your corporate agenda. You're a waste of time, and you're only here to get back slapped by your equally deluded right wing chums. You are a troll!
 

sidicks

Banned
I wish you'd stop being an apologist for the banking industry. It lied, it cheated and it payed itself outrageous bonuses. Pyramid selling at it's very best and as a result of it's greed has ruined the western economies. Government was at least complacent at worse nothing short of criminal and still is.
I wish you'd stop ignoring anything posted that doesn't support your argument...

On numerous times I've criticised the banks - unlike you however, I can take a more healthy view and realise that lots of people were culpable rather than simply blame one sector (one that encompasses a range of different jobs and skills).

Of course you still believe that the biggest pyramid selling issue of the lot -public sector pensions - are still sustainable.....
:facepalm:

Not everyone borrowed to the hilt to fund their lifestyles.
No, but plenty did.

If no-one borrowed more than they could afford to pay back, why did the banks make losses??

Even those who were thrifty have lost thousands. I am lucky perhaps, to be able to pay off any credit card bills that I have in full. I'll be damned if I give the lying thieving b******s a penny more than I have too. They've skimmed more than enough off me.
:rotfl:
 

sidicks

Banned
Oh sidicks, time and time again you come to the defense of those poor banking executives and traders who set out to "f*** the poor people".
I've never denied the errors made by the banks.

You on the other hand seem to be totally oblivious (and ignorant) to the obvious - that if people had not been greedy and over-borrowed then the current situation would not have occured.

As before:
The banks were to blame
The previous government were to blame
The public were to blame.
:smashin:

You are a grade A "Boris". You have an ideology that never deviates from your corporate agenda. You're a waste of time, and you're only here to get back slapped by your equally deluded right wing chums. You are a troll!

:boring::boring::boring:

I've never denied the errors made by the banks.

Conversely you and your 'left wing' chums fail to acknowledge the huge problems created by a decade of Labour overspending and the fail to recognise the horrendous economic mess left for the current government - leaving them with little scope but to make cuts to avoid bankruptcy.

Your solution of ongoing borrowing, to be paid for by the rich (successfull ?!), is neither fair nor sustainable.
:hiya:
Sidicks
 

Citizen J

Novice Member
I've never denied the errors made by the banks.

You on the other hand seem to be totally oblivious (and ignorant) to the obvious - that if people had not been greedy and over-borrowed then the current situation would not have occured.

I think self responsibility is paramount but if banks are prepared to lend people 4 1/2 and 5 times their monthly wage then serious questions need to be asked. The fact that RBS came within two hours of running out of money as a recent documentary highlighted is disgraceful. Whilst folk struggle to pay the bills the ex chief executive is getting a 300k a year pension.

Channel 4 news had a report around five months ago about food collections. There was one family who were interviewed who only earnt £800 a month as one of them lost their job and so they couldn't even afford a weekly shop. I think that is depressingly sad how in a first world country you have people living in accommodation who can't even afford food but yet energy companies keep raising their prices annually, and yet no bankers are being investigated to ascertain if fraud(s) were committed.

Oh well we are all in this together.
 

Dave

Distinguished Member
The banks didn't make losses because of people continuing to pay their debts, they made losses due to people being greedy and borrowing more than they could afford to payback and NOT paying their debts..

This was gleefully compounded by the banks assuring people house prices would never go down. The mortgage market was a massive cash cow and they exploited it to the full.

Yes people should not have borrowed more than they can afford but when every financial institution on the planet along with the government is telling Joe Public they can have their cake and bloody well eat it.....

The whole mess started with the banks there is no denying that, sadly we are in a position where the financial sector is so important to our economy that no politician has the balls to sort it all out.

In the mean time it's the general population who are suffering while those who must shoulder the most responsibility for the situation continue to live a lifestyle most can only dream of. A recession doesn't really affect millionaires much does it?
 
D

Deleted member 13294

Guest
Dave, can you find me ANY article or quotation where a major UK bank has assured people house prices would never fall?
 
D

dovercat

Guest
The banks didn't make losses because of people continuing to pay their debts, they made losses due to people being greedy and borrowing more than they could afford to payback and NOT paying their debts...

The greedy poor people did not go to the bank with a shotgun. The banks business is risk management. The bank should of been making the decision whether to loan them the money based on their ability to payback the loan. Not the banks ability to sell on the loan at a profit, making the borrowers inability to pay someone else's problem.
 
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la gran siete

Distinguished Member
after watching Storyville i am, left in no doubt where most the blame lies .The documentary starts with Iceland ,a country who until 2001, had very low unemployment, low debt good growth(4%) , almost non existent crime , people enjoyed a healthy standard of living and where wealth differentials were relatively low .Then the Government decided to deregulate its banking sector , presumably following on from what was happening elsewhere, and everything went pear shape by 2008 due to the appalling greed displayed by its own investment bankers.

Oddly the Icelandic people are still full of hope despite their existing hardships.This is, partly, because they tend to pull together.ie they think more in terms of the collective rather than selfish individualism

The Neo liberal experiment will be judged by history as the biggest mistake of the last 50 years. One which made a small number mutlimillionaires and billionaries whilst plunging hundreds of thousands of people into ignominious poverty and split societies into haves and have nots with resulting increases in crime dissillusion and hopelessness.What i find incredible is that very people who engineered much of this mess are still in prominent positions in Wall street .Obama, after promising much in terms of cleaning up the mess and bringing the culprits to account, has delivered very little.Indeed he seems to be endorsing these wicked people-Paulsen and the rest.Fulds is living the life of luxury when he should have had all his assets stripped away from him.This is the man whio is so conceited and arrogant he had is how personal lift installed at the Lehman's office block so he would never have to set eyes on his staff.What a vile man:thumbsdow
 
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pragmatic

Distinguished Member
after watching Storyville i am, left in no doubt where most the blame lies .The documentary starts with Iceland ,a country who until 2001, had very low unemployment, low debt good growth(4%) , almost non existent crime , people enjoyed a healthy standard of living and where wealth differentials were relatively low .Then the Government decided to deregulate its banking sector , presumably following on from what was happening elsewhere, and everything went pear shape by 2008 due to the appalling greed displayed by its own investment bankers.

Oddly the Icelandic people are still full of hope despite their existing hardships.This is, partly, because they tend to pull together.ie they think more in terms of the collective rather than selfish individualism

Your post makes no sense, please reformat it so it does.

For example you start with Iceland was a land of milk and honey, where crime was no existent, to it all went pear shaped. Did that mean crimes rose substantially or did the first statement not have any contextual relevance upon the second? Then the second paragraph without any relevance appearing in the first seems to float there pointlessly, what are they pulling together for/against?

The other section seems to be, some guys made loads of money, we should take it off him, and I'm gonna perform a character assignation to justify it.

Sometimes you have a good point LGS and your heart is usually in the right place if a bit skew wiff to the left but most the time you sound like Frank Gallagher pontificating down the pub.
 

la gran siete

Distinguished Member
Your post makes no sense, please reformat it so it does.

For example you start with Iceland was a land of milk and honey, where crime was no existent, to it all went pear shaped. Did that mean crimes rose substantially or did the first statement not have any contextual relevance upon the second? Then the second paragraph without any relevance appearing in the first seems to float there pointlessly, what are they pulling together for/against?

The other section seems to be, some guys made loads of money, we should take it off him, and I'm gonna perform a character assignation to justify it.

Sometimes you have a good point LGS and your heart is usually in the right place if a bit skew wiff to the left but most the time you sound like Frank Gallagher pontificating down the pub.

It doesnt exactly take an Einstein to figure out what i was trying to say.No need to pull me up on syntax:nono:
Simply that prior 2001 Iceland enjoyed good growth(4%) low crime rate, low unemployment, low wealth differentials and almost non existent crime.Not exactly milk and honey but definitely a society at peace with itself with a strong sense of community . Bank deregulation ultimately led to the same economic disaster which affected other countries with its three major banks going kaput, resulting in massive job losses and with the economy now in considerable debt where it was hardly so before.
Its people ,though , still remain optimistic that things will improve and rather than seek to scapegoat, they are pulling together so presumably there is far less tendency to want to commit crimes. On the face of it they appear to be less individualistic than we are
The country has considerable fish stocks around its coast line as well as mineral reserves which it exports, a high tech industries and a tourist industry .I just think they will most likely be able to pull themselves ouyt of the mire quicker than we can .
Its also, btw , now seeking to join the EU.

My last section alludes to the view that if you have huge disparities in wealth then ,ultimately, there will be problems of a social nature. Scandinavian countries understand that ,which is why such disparities do not exist, at least no where near the same levels that exist here or the USA.My own strongly held belief is that if we want an effective community then we should aim to adopt a more Scandinavian style mentality where values are more centred around that community and not what the individual can grab for himself.
Whats not to understand about that?
 

pragmatic

Distinguished Member
That wasn't too hard now, although I still take issue with saying crime was low back in the day before deregulation when in fact it hasn't changed. Your previous post implied all the good things disappeared after deregulation when they didn't and why I asked you to clarify :)

I don't agree with all your assertions, suicides in Scandinavian countries are quite high (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate) mainly among men. Maybe this is due to lack of aspiration and/or ability to differentiate one self from the crowd?
Every country as its issues, and for the most part people can go and live in the country that best fits their way of life, not that there is any thing wrong with pointing out that some people do things better than us/others.
 

sidicks

Banned
Its also, btw , now seeking to join the EU.
Are they likely to be net contributers or not receivers from the EU...??
:confused:

My last section alludes to the view that if you have huge disparities in wealth then ,ultimately, there will be problems of a social nature. Scandinavian countries understand that ,which is why such disparities do not exist, at least no where near the same levels that exist here or the USA.My own strongly held belief is that if we want an effective community then we should aim to adopt a more Scandinavian style mentality where values are more centred around that community and not what the individual can grab for himself.
Whats not to understand about that?

Well, one of the biggest costs for the lowest paid is housing, due to an excess of demand over supply.

We should really have an additional tax on second homes, as they are an unnecessary luxury and have an adverse impact on the poor.

The money raised could be used to increase benefits for the poorest in society.

I'm sure you'd agree with that, LGS, wouldn't you??
:devil:
Sidicks
 

pragmatic

Distinguished Member
Well, one of the biggest costs for the lowest paid is housing, due to an excess of demand over supply.

We should really have an additional tax on second homes, as they are an unnecessary luxury and have an adverse impact on the poor.

The money raised could be used to increase benefits for the poorest in society.

A multi-home windfall tax to fund social housing certainly sounds like an interesting proposal. As said we don't have enough homes due available empty housing stock so prices rise to either rent or buy, mainly because individuals are hoarding this expensive and finite asset.
I would say its little different from hoarding food or energy, they are all requirements for minimal living standards (and have been for thousands of years now).

Any houses that are built (regardless of funding), need to be of a minimum size per room, use quality building materials and be energy efficient (at least insulated). To much crap has been build over the last decade, and living spaces reduced to hobbit like proportions.

As an aside but ironically slightly more on topic I personally think a government who can keep the price of food, energy and housing low will be in government for a very long time.
 

bosque

Novice Member
comes to something when a so called first world nation now has charities committed to providing food for those whose benefits have so callously been slashed.Makes me feel ashamed to be British.Today i donated £10 worth of food and will do so on a monthly basis to help those poor souls who are forced to choose between feeding themselves and paying all their bills.

I know of quite a few unscrupulous rogues who make a habit of popping down to these food kitchens for some grub and then scoff at the thought of mugs who are taken in with the claims they are needed to provide food for "the poor".
 

sidicks

Banned
I know of quite a few unscrupulous rogues who make a habit of popping down to these food kitchens for some grub and then scoff at the thought of mugs who are taken in with the claims they are needed to provide food for "the poor".

Well there are always people who will abuse other people's generosity in whatever form.

My view is that you should just try and 'do the right thing' and if someone takes advantage then they will get their just desserts in due course.

Same with beggars on the street - when I have time I would rather buy someone some food rather than simply give them money, but that isn't always possible. If they end up using the money for alcohol (for example) rather than a 'cup of tea' or some food, then there's not much i can do about it.
:nono:
Sidicks
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Well, one of the biggest costs for the lowest paid is housing, due to an excess of demand over supply.

We should really have an additional tax on second homes, as they are an unnecessary luxury and have an adverse impact on the poor.

The money raised could be used to increase benefits for the poorest in society.

I'm sure you'd agree with that, LGS, wouldn't you??
:devil:
Sidicks

Second time in a week I've agreed with something you've said. You'll even get me cheering for the English rugby team at the Millenium Stadium......................nah.

Second homes are a real problem in the holiday spots of Wales. The tourist industry relies on cheap labour during the summer months, yet the young people of West Wales are being driven out simply because there is no affordable housing as all the rich bankers (sorry butty, got to get that one in) have taken all the small cottages. Those that opt to stay are out of work for five to six months of the year and desperately looking for suitable accommodation.

Second homes should be taxed as an asset and perhaps even be asked to pay council tax at 125%. Some of the small villages in Ceredigion are like ghost towns in the winter.
 

sidicks

Banned
Second time in a week I've agreed with something you've said. You'll even get me cheering for the English rugby team at the Millenium Stadium......................nah.
I was there (visiting my sister) and cheering the English on in the 6 nations last year....
:smashin:

Second homes are a real problem in the holiday spots of Wales. The tourist industry relies on cheap labour during the summer months, yet the young people of West Wales are being driven out simply because there is no affordable housing as all the rich bankers (sorry butty, got to get that one in) have taken all the small cottages. Those that opt to stay are out of work for five to six months of the year and desperately looking for suitable accommodation.
Rich bankers and rich landscape gardeners?!
:hiya:
Sidicks
 

gibbsy

Moderator
I was there (visiting my sister) and cheering the English on in the 6 nations last year....
:smashin:


Sidicks

You mean there's more than just the one of you. Quick, close the Severn Bridge.:eek::D
 

sidicks

Banned
You mean there's more than just the one of you. Quick, close the Severn Bridge.:eek::D

She works for the NHS (like my wife) and lives in Cardiff..
:hiya:
Sidicks
 
D

dovercat

Guest
I don't agree with all your assertions, suicides in Scandinavian countries are quite high (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate) mainly among men. Maybe this is due to lack of aspiration and/or ability to differentiate one self from the crowd?

Maybe due to lack of sunlight. Long dark winters.
Same as SAD seasonal effective disorder.

Maybe due to a culture of heavy drinking
Heavy alcohol use is a cause of depression.

Maybe because rather than comparing their relative wealth to their neighbors and being unhappy envious or resentful, they are comparing their realtive happiness with their neighbors perceived happiness and they get depressed. They do not put their neighbors happiness down to being richer so there is no obvious reason or solution to their own unhappiness.
 
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