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FMJ or FMJ

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by HouseofMu, Jul 9, 2001.

  1. HouseofMu

    HouseofMu
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    Up until v.recently I was ready to finally replace my aging CD player and had decided, after auditioning a few, on the Arcam FMJ CD23 (£1100).

    My question is, now that the FMJ DV27 DVD player has appeared, has anyone had the opportunity to compare the CD playback of these two, is the DV27s CD playback equal/good enough for me not to bother spending a further £1100 on a dedicated CD player?

    As they're both a lot of money I want to be confident about it and am prepeared to wait if its too early for any opinions yet?

    Hope nobody minds me putting this question to this DVD Player forum.

    Any feedback would be welcome.

    n.
     
  2. ReTrO

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    The Cd playback of the FMJ DV27 is comparable to the playback of the DiVA CD72 (£399), so if you want really good CD replay then get the FMJ CD23 as well.

    Enjoy!
     
  3. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    I'm going to take the conroversial standpoint and disagree with ReTrO here. IMHO the FMJ outperforms the 7se, and cheaper Diva CD players.

    It's not an Alpha9 but it's close.

    Gordon
     
  4. Reiner

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    And IMHO it might depend very much where you connect it to.
    No point connecting a dedicated CDP to a (budget) AV amp/receiver, especially not if it costs you GBP1100.

    Might be different if stereo is your main priority (and you are using a dedicated stereo amp) or you are using some high-end AV rig ...
     
  5. HouseofMu

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    I've been slowly upgrading all my kit, so it would be in good company. The new CD player would go into a Roksan Integrated amp (front main pair), also used in conjunction with a Roksan 3 channel Pwr amp (rears and center). The processor is a Rotel RSP-966 which I'm v.happy with.
    The speakers are all B&W from their new 7NT range, connected with Chord Odyssey cable.
    (Its taken me 2 years to put together and a lot of extra over-time!)

    I've found it all sounds absolutely fantastic for A/V and even gave my old (10 yr old marantz cd player) a new lease of life, but it was obviously the weakest link.

    I was really looking to get a player that would give me performance on par with the other kit. I also auditioned the Roksan CD player (recently upgraded to mkII) but the Arcam was simply another class above. I was aware of the problems of any combi units but thought te FMJ dvd player might be of suitable quality in both areas, but if its only going to rival a £300 - £600, I think I'd be better with the dedicated FMJ cd player.

    I've been priming the missus with the idea of a front projector (hopefully a DLP based on the new TI DMD 12 degree component set), which will have to be next year, so that's why I was considering a higher end dvd player with all its ProgScan outputs etc.

    I think I'd be best waiting until I'm ready to get a projector and then re-assessing dvd players, you never know the DV27 /88 may still be the market leaders as they don't seem to change the whole product as often of other manufactures.

    Thanks for the feedback, I'd struggled (failed) to organise a back to back comparison of both the FMJ units, so the input was helpful.

    Cheers

    n.
     
  6. PeteM

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    I've also been reading the recent reviews of the FMJ DV27 with interest.

    I have an Alpha 10 + DAVE AV setup, with an old Sony 715 DVD player, and a nice new Marantz DR6000 CD burner both attached. The Marantz is connected by a digital coax to the DAVE module so I can make use of the DACs in the DAVE for CD playback. I think it sounds very slightly better this way, although the difference is very subtle.

    Having a CD Burner, high end CD player and high end DVD player all in the same system is not exactly practicle - where would I put them all, hence I am interested in a DVD player that is excellent with CD replay - hence an interest in the new FMJ player. I concidered the DIVA 88, but as its apparently only as good as the budget 7SE, its not really what I'm after.

    Incidently the DR6000 replaced a really old Marantz CD60, which I also used to use as a transport fed into DAVE. My dealer didn't have any DAVE equipped amps available, so we used an Alpha 9 amp, and compared the DR6000 against and Alpha 9 CD player (as its got the same DACs as the DAVE). The Alpha 9 CD simply blew the DR6000 out of the water, the difference in performance was so immediate and obvious - I had to really resist buying the Alpha 9 as well. Also the Alpha 9 appears to sound better than the DR6000 as a transport + DAVE for decoding.

    This is all academic at the moment, as I'm reluctant to spend too much on DVD whilst the DVD Audio / SACD format war is still going strong (I believe DVD Audio will win out), and then there's the small matter of not being able to connect the outputs from the future FMJ DVD Audio module to my Alpha 10 + DAVE as it doesn't allow for an external decoder :-(
     
  7. Tracey

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    So is it true that the CD playback on the DV88 is only equivelent to the Alpha 7SE? I thought the DV88 was supposed to have excellent CD playback. I really want my DVD player to be an excellent CD player too so now I'm not sure if a DV88 would sound much better than my Marantz DR6000. I didn't really want to soend £1600 on the DV27 though.
     
  8. HouseofMu

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    If DVD players are never going to achieve the same results as a dedicted CD player, can the DV27 be seen to be just bells & whistles over the DV88 if you don't want the player for CD?

    Is an Arcam DVD player that concentrates purly on DVD playback preferable? (PAL PS etc?). Would this be an upgraded DV88?

    Glad to see other ppl are thinking along the same lines.

    n.
     
  9. icequake2000

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    how about trying the new cyrus dvd player £1000. suppose to be better for cd's then the arcam but picture not as good.
     
  10. lmccauley

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    The Alpha 9 CD player uses the state-of-the-art ringDAC. The DAVE uses more normal DACS. It isn't surprising that the 9 sounded better than the DAVE (although I seem to be very insensitive to differences between DACs - I couldn't tell a 7 from a 9 when I had one home for a couple of nights).

    Yes, that's a bit of a sore point :(. I remember making the point when the DAVE came out that it didn't have a 6 channel input and one of the Arcam people on the newsgroup (not John) asked why I would need it.

    It would be nice if Arcam produced a DAVE II that plugged into the Alpha 10, FMJ equivelant and Diva A85 (and maybe a processor-only chassis).

    Cheers,
    Liam
     
  11. ReTrO

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    Arcam are doing a 6ch. input/output card for the A85, when? I don't know, you'll have to ask John. Persumably it will matchup with the DVD-A version of the DV88.
     
  12. Guest

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    I'm sure the new Arcam is much much better than a 300 pound CD player.
    I've tried the cheaper Onkyo DVS 939 and the Toshiba sd900e. both are DVD-A, and both are a different league to a 300 pound CD player. In fact the DVD-A on the Onkyo sounds better than the MF A3 (havent tried the Tosh DVD-A).
    I havent tried the Tosh and Onkyo head to head, so dont know which one is better (both better than SOny 9000es
     
  13. PeteM

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    The DIVA DV88 player is often quoted as being on a par with the Alpha 7SE for CD playback, which isn't in itself so bad as the 7SE is one of the best budget players around. If your the sort of person who would have something like the 7SE in their system then I guess it would be a good buy if you wanted to integrate DVD and CD in one unit.

    I would certainly hope the FMJ DV27 to be significantly better at CD replay, and Gordon mentions above that he believes it to nearly be as good as the Alpha 9, which I find encouraging as I recently had the priviledge of listening to an Alpha 9 and went away suitably impressed!

    The reason I'm personally interested in the DV27 is it may offer a means to reach the holly grail - superb DVD replay + the best CD replay in one unit.
     
  14. Tracey

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    that's exactly the same reason I'm interested I don't want a cd player a dvd player AND a CD recorder. does anyone know if the DV27 is actually in the shops yet?
     
  15. Steve Reichert

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    Hello Everyone,

    This thread begins with the question "how does the Arcam FMJ DV27 compare to the FMJ CD23 on CD playback?"

    I know the answer!

    The reason I know is because I lead the team that carries out the sonic evaluation of all Arcam products throughout their design process. (In the trade, this is described as being the chief "golden ears") :)

    However, before answering the question, I feel I must put into perspective some of the other comments that have been made even though all such comments are valid in their own right.

    I'm also going to get very very biased! Which will break the strict rules that my boss John Dawson lays down about any comments Arcam staff may make on news groups etc.

    And yes I will get a rocket!

    But here goes.

    The DiVA DV88 doesn't just play CDs "as well as a £300 CD player". It plays CDs as well as our Alpha 7SE CD player, which is sonically the best £300 CD player on the planet and delivers a CD performance that some of our competitors can't match at any price!

    And yes, of course we listen to (and own) many of these other players.

    The DV27 is clearly better than the DV88. In fact it is so good that many of our dealers feel that it is very close to our own CD92 (£850) CD player. I wouldn't rate it quite that highly but it is obviously better than the DiVA CD72 player. I would put it about half way between the CD72 and CD92. In other words as good as the very best £650 dedicated CD players available. This makes the DV27 a very serious CD player.

    That still leaves the FMJ CD23. From my previous statement, you can see that the CD23 is still clearly above the DV27 as a CD player. But, once again, The CD23 is one of a small number of players that are capable of truly breathtaking performance when used in the right system.

    Please note that I haven't suggested which model you should buy. The only way to make your choice is to have a proper comparative demonstration at a good dealer. (remember to take a few of your favourite CDs with you).

    Rant over!

    Best regards,

    Steve Reichert
    Arcam Brand Manager
     
  16. HouseofMu

    HouseofMu
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    I (and I'm sure anybody who contributed to this thread) would like to thank you for 'breaking rules' in order to give us your opinion, hope you didn't get too much of a 'rocket'!

    Unless I discover the CD player has a replacment waiting to be released (you don't do you ????) I think I'll be spending my cash on the CD23 v.soon.

    n.
     
  17. Tracey

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    thanks, I think I'd be very interested in the DV27.

    So do all dealers now have the DV27 in stock, I'm interested in a black model just wondered if any have been made yet.


    Tracey
    Tracey
     
  18. lmccauley

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    The DV27 is part of the FMJ range (silver). The DV88 is part of the DiVA range (silver or black).

    Cheers,
    Liam
     
  19. Tracey

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    The DV27 is available in black or silver.
     
  20. Guest

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    I'm picking up my silver DV27 today or tomorrow from my dealer here in the US(Texas) so surely they are in stock in most locations, but probably in limited quantities right now.
     
  21. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    I don't think they've started making black ones yet. We have silver in stock though.

    Gordon
    P.S. Hello Steve! Nice to see you here.
     
  22. lmccauley

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    My apologies - yes the DV27 will also be available in black, like you say. Is this the first FMJ model to be available in a finish other than silver?

    Cheers,
    Liam
     
  23. Tracey

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    ok, one last question and a very important one, is the FMJ DV27 a multi-region machine? I just read the HCC review and they said it isn't, OH NO!!!
     
  24. lmccauley

    lmccauley
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    Well, Progressive scan is only enabled for NTSC, which would severely limit its use if it was Region 2 only in the UK. I assume that it can be "hacked" in the same way as the DV88, though I haven't had my hands on one personally (and after the accuracy of my last answer, you probably want to wait till some else confirms...).

    Cheers,
    Liam
     
  25. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    The DV88 and FMJ27 share the same firmware and O.S. This should help you to work out whether it's region free-able........

    Oh, that and the fact that we find it hard to sell units our customers can't region free....and we've already sold a few FMJ's....

    Gordon
     
  26. Blade

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    Tracey,

    I saw Jenz's FMJ27. It is definitely Multiregion and RCE compatible. We watched various R1, R2 and R3 titles.

    RCE stuff like Hollow Man and Charlies Angels (both R1) played fine. The former looked so good that it was outstanding. Perhaps drop him a line to see what he says. I'm pretty sure he knows about Pal Progressive too ;)
     
  27. Tracey

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    yes apparently the black models are special order and won't be avilable for at least a couple of months, but then if it's good it's worth waiting for. I'm goin got have a demo of the DV88 soon and the FMJ DV27 to compare, I don't knw why I'm bothering, I know which one I'll want!!!
     
  28. Tracey

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    Just one more thing which I forgot to ask about, in the HCC review of the DV27 they said that it was extremely sensitive to discs that had fingerprints or slight scratches on, now this worries me because although I take very care to ensure that mjy discs are spotless i do hure out lots from my local video shop and unless I'm thr first one to get them you can guarantee that someone has scratched them or spilled coffe on them. So was this just a fault with the particualre unit that HCC reviewed or is it a common fault with the DV27?
     
  29. Jenz

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    Tracey,

    I'll probably get flamed for saying this but I allow my Kids to load up the FMJDV27. Their discs normally always have fingerprints on them. Havent had a problem so far.

    When I was beta testing the unit I did have an infrequent lockup on R1 Finding Forester at the layer change. Chapter 20 I think. But it was infrequent and never happened twice in succession. Bit of a weird one that.

    Regards Jenz.
     
  30. ajryan

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    Did a comparison last night of my FMJ27 vs Naim CD3 (used to retail for around £750) and was mighty impressed with the FMJ. The CD3 is clearly a better player in areas such as soundstage, rhythm, clarity of bass, and painting a better overall picture of the music, the difference was not as great as you would expect. In fact close enough that for the majority of the time the FMJ would be acceptable.
    Add to this the DVD replay is amazing for both sound and picture makes it a superb one-for-all box (not yet available in black though).
     

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