FMJ DV29 Vs DV137

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by Bacardi, Aug 23, 2006.

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  1. Bacardi

    Bacardi
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    Hi folks

    Finally getting around to thinking about up grading my DVD and amplification. Looking at the AVR350 and the DV137. However, reading the forums the DV137 sounds like work in progress, so I was wondering what the difference is between that and the FMJ DV29. More money I know, but presumably better video and audio performance?

    I'm not really up to speed on scaling and I believe the DV137 has one built in. I'll be feeding a Sim2 H30 projector, is this an issue for me? Not sure what the feature differences are and I'm not sure I want multi channel SACD. I would however like good quality, old fashioned, stereo CD playback to replacing my ageing Micromega.

    So, is one obviously better than the other for video and audio playback (bugs aside), or maybe, budget allowing, I should wait for the FMJ DV29 replacement with scaling?

    Any thoughts gratefully received.
     
  2. NonPayingMember

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    The upscaling in the Sim is quite good so I don't think there will be night and day differences. The new 888 chip (DV137) does seem a bit better at 2:2 detection though (sharper PAL images) and I think it might have better mpeg decoding, but we're not talking enormous differences at all.

    The big difference is the DV29 audio performance - quite a bit better than the DV137. However the DV137 is a nicer player to use - quicker navigation, zero layer change, that kinda thing.

    For a CD/DVD solution I would want the DV29.
     
  3. Bacardi

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    Thanks for your thoughts Liam, much appreciated. Maybe I should wait until they iron out the bugs in the 137.:confused:
     
  4. Neo X

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    Hi Liam,

    What about some lines on DV27A vs DV137. I just had a revealing test on HDMI with a Denon 2910 and I was shocked with the increasing resolution of the HDMI connection (the shock came when I came back to the DV27A of course :rolleyes:). On the other hand I am overwhelmed and extremely satisfied by the audio quality of the DV27A (mainly on CD play). This is something I'm not willing to sacrifice.

    BTW I own a Sony VPL-HS20 LCD PJ.

    Greetings
     
  5. NonPayingMember

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    I really don't like most of the Denon players, in fact all of them! The last good one was the 2900. Not really much of a comparison - Arcam just make better DVD players!

    But back to the point, the simple fact that you are not willing to sacrifice CD replay whatsover from the DV27a suggests you're only replacement can be a DV29 or whatever other disc player follows from the fmj range. DiVA just isn't going to be good enough for you...

    Just as an aside, I have been soaktesting a DV137 for about 10 days now. Probably got through about 10 DVD discs and quite a few music CDs - apart from one or two older discs being spurted back out again (ones the DV79 wouldn't like anyway!) I have not had one issue with playback of anything. I am running 576i SD YUV 4:2:2 to a video processor, and the only thing I get is when you switch to the player, while it is already playing, you lose the colourspace until the HDMI connection re-starts itself (this happens on title changes, or when you stop-start the disc). Not sure if this might be specific to video processors though as the Crystalio II does it too. Bit of feedback somebody might find useful
     
  6. recruit

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    The Denon A1XVA DVD Player is an absolute killer DVD player and was i trying to compare it to the DV137 on wednesday but the Arcam kept on crashing :eek: so gave up in the end :D
     
  7. NonPayingMember

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    Well I'm not as convinced as you are about that. I've seen it fail a few cadence tests (that interestingly the DV137 doesn't!!) and I struggle to see the logic in putting a HQV chip into a predominantly film mode SD source... Especially given the HQV chip is a real piece of work to integrate well and it's strong points are all HD and video mode processing. But then again maybe I am biased after a history of not getting on with Denon kit (I installed loads of the new A1s when they launched last year only to find none of them worked properley). Bring back the 2900 I say!

    Audio (esp Denon Link) I would imagine would be the A1s strong point. But for similar budget you could have a DV29 (£1600) and a Lumagen HDP (£1300) or for the same money DV137 or Lumagen DVI. I know which option I'd take...

    That I can sympathise with!! It's caused me grief the last couple stock loads too but I think we're almost clear now. How come you weren't comparing DV29 and A1XV though?
     
  8. recruit

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    I can understand Liam that you must see alot more than me being a retailer but i am only talking from my experience of the Denon and the comparison i was trying to do was with 1080P scaled DVD thru a Sony Ruby projector but the Arcam just would not play ball :( and I gave up in the end which was a shame seeing that Arcam is such a well respected brand, and from talking to other people the DV137 has not been there best product to date..before that i have owned a Denon 2900 and have to agree for the price that was a superb machine and probably one of there best but i have also owned and viewed the Meridian G series DVD players and Pioneers / Cyrus / Harman Kardon / and the PQ on the A1XVA certainly surpasses the Meridian and all other players i have owned and seen but not once have i had a problem with the player locking up or needing a power down for which i needed to do quite regulary on the Meridian G series players which was a pain and oneof the reasons i got rid...

    Anyway the Denon is certainly no let down when it comes to viewing standard DVD and IMO is easily the best i have owned and seen and would recommend without hesitation to anyone looking for the ultimate DVD replay..:thumbsup:
     
  9. Neo X

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    Thanks Liam.

    But I remember reading about the DV29 on the HQV benchmark and the results were considered to be very poor.
     
  10. Neo X

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    Can this poor video rating relate to the option that Arcam took to share the deinterlacing work with the deconding using the VAddis 5 processor?
     
  11. NonPayingMember

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    On the HQV benchmark disc, only HQV devices can pass all the tests LOL (well noise reduction ones anyway)! However I was talking DV29 feeding dedicated video processor for similar total budget to A1xv.... My DV137 and Luma HDP passes all but the SD video mode processing tests where it only scores an average (ignoring the noise reduction one for now). For same budget could easily have gone for a DVDO with ABT102 which would have scored max on the film and video tests (but would not have done so well with my HD sources hence my specific choice of scaler). Secondly, there are film mode tests (i.e. cadence detection) that both these scaler based solutions will pass, that the Denon will not.... There are some (e.g rarer animated material) which the Denon will pass and these two will not. So do beware focusing too much on a single aspect of the image.

    Back on video processing, I did some A-B over the weekend. Testing video and film processing between Arcam DV137 alone, and run interlaced for my video processor. Alone the DV137 passes some very difficult cadences, only once flicking into video mode and back again briefly causing some line twitter (very minimal). This same test could even throw a Lumagen with older firmware... On video processing both were about equal. However the overall image didn't compare - the scaler option retained far more detail in the upscaling process, which then combined with things like y/c adjustment and genlock did ultimately provide an easily noticeable better image. So deinterlacing as an individual aspect I think was really very good in the Arcam, but it was still the total image quality of the scaler+DVD solution that won it.
     
  12. Neo X

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    Do you know if there is any known sucessor for the FMJ DV29 to be released soon?
     
  13. NonPayingMember

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    eventually but I don't imagine soon. Only clue is the hint towards ABT deinterlacing and scaling found in the DV137 service menu (which will presumably provide the basis for whatever new fmj player we might get).
     
  14. Neo X

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    I think it's worth waiting.

    Thanks. :thumbsup:
     
  15. Joe Fernand

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    Hello NeoX

    A Transport + VP is always going to be the most flexible option plus I assume you have more that the DVD discs to view on the Projector!

    If the budget doesn't allow for a Transport + VP in one go then install a VP now and upgrade the Player (Transport) at a later date to gain an all Digital signal path (the FMJ DV29 is an ideal 'Digital' transport).

    Another option is to have an SDI Board installed in the FMJ DV27 and specify a VP with an SDI Input.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  16. Neo X

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    Hi Joe,

    Dedicated VP is definately the optimal solution, both in terms of quality, but also in terms of wise investment.

    I've also heard about the SDI upgrade for the DV27A. My only problem is that I'm living in Portugal and this option requires more than a car trip. Nevertheless do you know who does this job?

    About VP solutions, can you sugest some options?

    Thanks
     
  17. Joe Fernand

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    Hello Neo X

    A few links to help you track down 'local' support:

    Crystalio - http://pixelmagicsystems.com/dealers/europe_uk.htm

    DVDO - http://www.chemison.biz

    Lumagen - http://www.lumagen.com/testindex.php?module=sales

    Vantage - whilst it pains me to say so :))) you may want to seek out Vince from Projection Dreams (do a search on ProjectionDream using the AVForums member search).

    Vince is in Portugal and is king of all things VP (he tells us!!!) and is the Vantage Distributor.

    Otherwise it would be a case of shipping the unit to the UK and having it fitted with an SDI Board and probably soak testing it with a VP for a few days to ensures everything is OK and configured as required.

    Best regards

    Joe

    PS If you talk to Vince be sure to let him know I sent you :devil:
     
  18. Neo X

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    It seems you and vince come a long way! :cool:

    As for SDI upgrade, can you drop me a name that provides this service.

    Thanks
     
  19. Joe Fernand

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    Hello Neo X

    We have our moments :)

    I'll PM you some notes on SDI mods later today.

    Best regards

    Joe

    PS Maybe we will see you in Glasgow on 17th October!!!
     
  20. Neo X

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    Joe,

    I thank you for your kind help. :clap:
     
  21. reAnimate

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    I had a DV29.

    Mine was over sensitive with DVD's and CD's so it went back and had its laser replaced. It was a little better after that.

    The CD sound was very harsh.

    I've also never known such an expensive device be so unstable - thing would freeze all the time

    I was happy to see the back of it - save your money.
     
  22. cjohnson6

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    Please let us all know what you bought instead.....
     
  23. reAnimate

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    I concluded that a home cinema was not as important to me as Hi-Fi.

    I traded it all in (apart from my Atacama rack, an AVR100 as it was pretty well worthless, a Mission centre speaker and a couple of nice cables) - DV29, 3 channel P35, 2 channel P25, NAD pre-amp for CD, 4 x assorted Mission Freedom 5 / 752 speakers etc and bought an entry level Naim system (CD, Amp, pre-amp, flatcap II, and PMC speakers) which I set up in the lounge.

    I then splashed out on a £60 Toshiba HDMI DVD player, £105 on 2 x sets of Eltax (?) bookshelf speakers from Richer Sounds and £60 on some atacama speaker stands (which cost almost as much as the front two speakers cost!)
    This I set up in a play room thingy.

    Sum total of home cinema - £780 all in.

    Much happier.
     
  24. NonPayingMember

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    Sorry to hear you had troubles. But for the record my comment was specifically regarding badly copied, usually pirate or internet sourced discs, rather than originals. I have many Arcam players out on the field and none (save a few DV137s as noted) suffer any lock ups. If CD performance was also lacking that would ring alarm bells to it possibly being a dodgy unit - I find the DV29 hugely impressive on CD material for DVD player. Did you get a chance to try a different DV29? Be a shame to have had to turn away owning a DV29 altogether because of this particular unit (although I do appreciate just how frustrating this kind of thing can be).
     
  25. reAnimate

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    Huuummm ... it may well have been a suspect unit, however I took it back to the dealer, they auditioned it with me again and said it was fine and I'm sure they know more about these things then I do.

    I don't reckon myself to be an "audiophile", I just couldn't understand how any reviewer could possibly write that it rivalled more expensive dedicated CD players when it's Naim replacement of a similar price was night and day in comparison. At the end of the day though as you say, it was a DVD player not a CD player. I just never thought I'd appreciate the difference - but here we are!
     
  26. reAnimate

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    The BEST bit though, is that if there are ever any DVD issues, it just doesn't matter as the player was only fifty quid!

    When I had the DV29 I felt that for the money spent, there was no excuses for anything being wrong.

    The irony of course is that the fifty quid unit hasn't put a foot wrong.
     
  27. NonPayingMember

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    Reviewers do get carried away don't they! Not all of them remember to qualify their statement by saying compared to other DVD players of the same price rather than comparing to dedicated CD decks of similar price (at which point we would be talking CD36 which is something I have found myself pining for recently...). The important thing is you have a system that is delivering what you expect of it and you are happy with it
     
  28. Guy Verbist

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    Umm, may as well contribute.

    I have a DV29, and am truly impressed with CD playback. This is a major factor for me, since I probably listen to music / watch DVDs about 50/50, so I want the best of both worlds :)

    That said, it isn't the most reliable of beasts. It suffers the occasional lock-up, usually the time display shows a constant "00:00", despite the fact that a CD is playing. After that it just plain dies when you try to play another CD, has to be power-cycled.

    Also I have a couple of CDs that won't play at all, won't even spin up. The one that comes to mind is Peace Orchestra. Plays fine on everything else, the Arcam won't look at it. Anyone else suffered from this?

    For the avoidance of doubt I play nothing but real shop-bought CDs and DVDs, no download/homebrew monkey business.

    Guy
     
  29. Houston Texas

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    Regarding a machine refusing to play CD's, my DV79 will not recognise a couple of my CD's (new original CD's purchased at Best Buy). The latest Brand New Heavies CD causes the machine to say "Loading" for eternity. Has to be powered off to stop this.
     
  30. Neo X

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    Well I must say that my DV27A has a couple of glitches.

    One of the most annoying is the fact that the STOP button does not work in DVD-A playback. So, the only way I can stop a DVD-A is to abruptly power of the unit.

    Eventually, every now and then, it takes sometimes for the drive to digest some DVDs or even CDs. But I always have in mind that proprietary solution may have these issues. This is the cost of development.

    But I have to say, the DV27A's sound and video quality (HMDI apart) is something worth these glitches and I would not change it very easily. Or, said in another way: I would need a big budget to replace this unit by another with similar/superior performance.

    Due to Arcam's concept option on building the DV29, this unit does not appeal to me (deinterlacing shared by the Zoran processors definitely a non high-end solution). But I'm sure that Arcam will release a new unit that will bring water to my mouth.
     

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