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Flying Risks/Holiday travel/Location 'advice'

BB3Lions

Distinguished Member
I said as soon as the flight from Egypt to Russia went down it would be a terrorist event that brought it down. Obviously the Egyptian Government would not want this to be made public, but Russia being Russia they care about there own people & not about the financials of Egypt losing income from Sharm-el-Sheik - and rightly so!

It begs the question where is it now safe to travel for a holiday with air-planes being blown up either from a carry on bomb or a SAM.

Holiday firms still allow bookings of holidays to Turkey, Egypt etc but they fail to let you know that if an incident occurs, you are not insured. If the British Govt states not safe to travel, surely the holiday firms should cancel all holidays, irrespective of you being thick enough to take a risk?

Thoughts?

Sinai plane crash: 'External activity' caused crash - BBC News
 

johntheexpat

Distinguished Member
Apparently Egypt is a fabulous destination at the moment. Very few tourists, so you get to see all the amazing World Heritage Sites free from the madd(en)ing crowds, its cheap as chips as they are desperate to attract tourists and the security is very tight.
Safe, cheap and amazing all in one. Can't be bad.
 

balidey

Distinguished Member
Eating bacon is nice, but there is a very small chance it could kill you.
Going on holiday to Egypt is nice, but there is a very small chance it could kill you.
 

Barcoing Mad

Well-known Member
To quote from the above BBC news item:

A senior airline official said: "The only reasonable explanation is that it was [due to] external influence."

An investigation by aviation experts using data from the aircraft's "black boxes" has yet to give its conclusions.

A Kremlin spokesman has warned against speculation as to the possible causes of the crash.
 

Stuey1

Well-known Member
I said as soon as the flight from Egypt to Russia went down it would be a terrorist event that brought it down. Obviously the Egyptian Government would not want this to be made public, but Russia being Russia they care about there own people & not about the financials of Egypt losing income from Sharm-el-Sheik - and rightly so!

It begs the question where is it now safe to travel for a holiday with air-planes being blown up either from a carry on bomb or a SAM.

Holiday firms still allow bookings of holidays to Turkey, Egypt etc but they fail to let you know that if an incident occurs, you are not insured. If the British Govt states not safe to travel, surely the holiday firms should cancel all holidays, irrespective of you being thick enough to take a risk?

Thoughts?

Sinai plane crash: 'External activity' caused crash - BBC News

Way to early to be calling it a terrorist event yet....

For Example: The aircraft in question suffered a tail-strike on landing in 2001 and it's not unheard of that the repair can suffer later in life causing a catastrophic structural failure - see Japan Airlines Flight 123 - rear bulkhead failure cause massive damage to the tail structure of a Boeing 747 - tearing off the horizontal stabilizers and making the plane uncontrollable - its not beyond the realms of possibility that a similar incident has occurred and caused significant damage to the tail section

The incident was only a couple of days ago, it seems prudent to wait until the investigation has at least posted an initial report before declaring any root cause of this crash as there are still several possibilities that are not terrorist related
 

Sloppy Bob

Distinguished Member
Life is a series of measured risks.

More people died yesterday crossing the road and in traffic accidents than died in that aircrash. You're more likely to be killed by

Being struck by lightning
Being bitten by a snake
Dying falling out of bed

etc. etc.

These things are tragic and make headline news due to the large number of deaths at once but they are a rare occurrence considering the number of flights there are all over the world daily.
If you look at the ones that are caused by poor maintenance, pilot error etc the majority of them are smaller lower tier airlines using older planes, not the main carriers you'd be using out the UK, Europe, North America etc.

Of course there are always exceptions.
 
I said as soon as the flight from Egypt to Russia went down it would be a terrorist event that brought it down. Obviously the Egyptian Government would not want this to be made public, but Russia being Russia they care about there own people & not about the financials of Egypt losing income from Sharm-el-Sheik - and rightly so!

It begs the question where is it now safe to travel for a holiday with air-planes being blown up either from a carry on bomb or a SAM.

Holiday firms still allow bookings of holidays to Turkey, Egypt etc but they fail to let you know that if an incident occurs, you are not insured. If the British Govt states not safe to travel, surely the holiday firms should cancel all holidays, irrespective of you being thick enough to take a risk?

Thoughts?

Sinai plane crash: 'External activity' caused crash - BBC News

More likely to die on the drive to the airport than on a flight to/from Egypt. Don't let the terrorists win.

I went to Thailand less than 6 months after the Tsunami, I was in Mexico when Swine Flu broke out. I've been to Jordan, Egypt, and Oman against government advisories and had a great time in all the places and saved money in some cases as many of these places are desperate for business.
 

Greg Hook

Moderator & Reviewer
Well if the comments on the radio this morning are to be believed the Egyptians have little or no security at their airports. People getting passed security with a knife, large bottles of liquid etc.

It sounds quite feasible for a bomb to get on the plane given this shoddy security.
So it looks like you are safe on the journey out, safe in the high security compound known as a resort, but the risk comes on the journey home.
 
Well if the comments on the radio this morning are to be believed the Egyptians have little or no security at their airports. People getting passed security with a knife, large bottles of liquid etc.

It sounds quite feasible for a bomb to get on the plane given this shoddy security.
So it looks like you are safe on the journey out, safe in the high security compound known as a resort, but the risk comes on the journey home.

Even Western airport security is just theatre. People get on with knives and guns all the time.

The cynic in me says that by bunching everybody up into dense crowds at an airport presents a nice soft terrorist target that doesn't cause any damage to expensive planes.
 

BB3Lions

Distinguished Member
More likely to die on the drive to the airport than on a flight to/from Egypt. Don't let the terrorists win.

I went to Thailand less than 6 months after the Tsunami, I was in Mexico when Swine Flu broke out. I've been to Jordan, Egypt, and Oman against government advisories and had a great time in all the places and saved money in some cases as many of these places are desperate for business.

On your own or with your wife & kids?

If the latter then you would know why reservations are there.
 

Greg Hook

Moderator & Reviewer

imightbewrong

Distinguished Member
Life is a series of measured risks.

More people died yesterday crossing the road and in traffic accidents than died in that aircrash. You're more likely to be killed by

Being struck by lightning
Being bitten by a snake
Dying falling out of bed

etc. etc.

Just remember to factor in the conditional probability:

conditional_risk.png
 

BB3Lions

Distinguished Member
Went with my wife. She served in the Army in the 80s and had her barracks blown up by the IRA so she's a little more resilient than many wives.

Having done my time I could say the same, however the difference is my son, i wouldn't want to risk putting him into a situation where i can just say 'sorry'. IF the wife & i went & ..it hit the fan then we could say 'we messed up' & we will live (or die) with the consequences.
 

Cobb

Distinguished Member
From my own experience of flying to and from Egypt - security is very laid back compared to every where else I've flown from. I flew back from the US last year and that was pretty full on with the shoes off, hand swabs etc.
 

Trollslayer

Distinguished Member
From the wreckage picture the rear structural failure is quite likely plus the last minute shows a 3,000 feet climb which could be consistent with loss of control leading to a stall.
Bomb damage would be towards the centre of the aircraft.
Look at private aircraft incidents to get an idea of how bad maintenance causes problems.
 

Member 55145

Distinguished Member
I heard there was a body found 5 miles away which is consistent with explosive decompression on an aircraft, the collapsing of the floor lead to the controls being severed.
I can't remember the details but there was an aircraft investigation programme talking about vents now being in floors to stop this happening.

None of the incident was terrorist related.

EDIT:
It was a faulty door mechanism

Turkish Airlines Flight 981 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Last edited:

FZR400RRSP

Banned
Many stories of internal US travellers forgetting to check the guns and not realising till they got off their flight.

TSA chief was recently fired after it was uncovered they failed to detect explosives and guns 95% of the time

TSA Chief Out After Agents Fail 95 Percent of Airport Breach Tests

Doesn't surprise me on USA internal flights.
Again though, not really relevant for us on here.
I've been up and down to London a lot in the past two weeks, security was as tight as ever.
I even had to do the new body scanner thing once.
 

robel

Well-known Member
You´ve never traveled with El Al then....Contrary to the UK and elsewhere and has been pointed out above, they are really not interested in liquids etc...If you manage to qualify to board after their ceaseless questions, then you can keep your liquids!! I should have remembered and known better....I traveled with them from Madrid to Tel Aviv earlier in the year and after being questioned for 30 minutes by the young bull who was then joined by his supervisor and after asking me a plethora of different questions, they came out with..." So what is your girlfriends name?"...Well my mind went blank, could not for the life of me remember despite leaving her house, six hours earlier...Told them to phone her but not mention that I couldnt remember her name!!!
 

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