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Question Floorstanding speakers that would better kef ls50's & rel s3 sub

Southern soul

Established Member
Due to room constraints i'm considering floor standers instead of my current ls50's and rel S3 subwoofer, my wife has mentioned she would like a walnut/black finish and no longer wants so much gloss black.

so the question is what speakers would better my current pairing, my budget is £2000-£2500, my room is 15ft x 15ft and soft furnished, my current set is mac pro to chord hugo to leema tucana 2, my cables are mostly tq blacks, i have chord power cords on my amp/br player and tv.

i have a demo booked soon for some spender a5r's which are running in at the moment, can anyone suggest anything else?

Southern soul

Established Member
Monitor Audio Silver's

Thanks but I'm after speakers that would be better than what i have already. Although nice the ma silvers or even the golds wont be able to match what i have now!


Established Member
I'm thinking more a firm that does walnut/black than any particular model. Your setup I demo's whilst on my hunt.
Very nice indeed but I went for Silver 8's as I preferred their sound with the MuFi M3.
Your setup was wonderful with a naim and even better still T&A setup.
Vienna Acoustics?
I'm based in Germany so get sometimes different offerings to you.


Prominent Member
Give the PMC 20.23 a listen would be my recommendation...


Established Member

Southern soul

Established Member
Thanks sounddog i will add the pmc's to my list, as for the r500's i found the bass too much and needed to use the outer bungs when i had them.


Established Member
I don't often hear that about the R500. And the bungs are there specifically to change the bass characteristics, especially when closer to a wall.

My R500 are about 28"/71.5cm to the front of them from the wall, or 17.3"/44cm from the rear to the wall. I've tried them fully open port, fully plugged, and have settled on the outer portion of the bungs for partial porting.

With my SVS SB1000 taking over the low frequency duties, I have the receiver set to 80hz crossover and it's a seamless transition. When I turn off the sub and switch to pure direct mode, the R500 have good bass for most music. It's not even close to enough if I turn on tracks such as Pink Floyd's "Speak To Me" or Fiona Apple's "Sleep To Dream". I don't often bother to listen without the sub anymore. Everyone is different, it's just not something I've ever heard that R500 have too much bass. Something may have been set wrong.

Southern soul

Established Member
Unfortunately its a common problem with the r series, many people including myself turned to the bungs to calm the bass down, probably a mixture of placement and room that attributes to it, in my case they just don't work in my room unfortunately.
There is nothing wrong with the set up its just down to the speakers and placement problems so the r series are out of the question.


Distinguished Member
To equal the speakers you have in Floorstanding, as a generalization, you would need to spend 2 to more likely 3 times what the LS50 cost. Which is roughly the budget you original stated.

However, to noticeably exceed the quality of the LS50 in a Floorstanding speaker, I speculate that you are going to have to spend 3x to 5x the cost of the LS50 speakers.

However, do keep in mind that Floorstanding have their own benefits. They move more air and have more sense of impact and weight above the crossover frequency.

So you have to ask yourself, what kind of better do you want?

To illustrate one kind of better, let me use my own system. I have TWO PAIR of Front speakers in a Stereo system. When I kick on the second pair of speakers, I get a +6db increase in the output. That is the equivalent of applying FOUR Times the power. I can reach 110db peaks during movies which is well above the Reference standard.

The PMC Twenty series might be what you are looking for. They are single bass driver speakers that meet a very high standard of sound. Prices running from £2300/pr up to £5750/pr.

The PMC Twenty.24 with a 6.5" (165mm) bass driver, and response down to an unbelievable 28hz, should do a nice job at £3400/pr.

The smaller PMC Twenty.22 with a 5.5" (140mm) bass driver is rated down to 29hz, but I suspect with both these speakers, the deepest bass comes from the Transmission Line design. The price on these is a more modest £2300/pr.

But I can't help but wonder what it is your are hoping to gain from this upgrade, besides a more cosmetically appealing appearance?

Next, you implied, but did not clearly say, that you have limited space. Bigger multi-driver speakers are going to need a bit more space around them. Bookshelf can be placed much closer to the wall behind. So, exactly how big is your room? (Dimensions), and if that is an open floorplan, then how big is your actual listening space? We need both if it applies.

Again, back to what it is you are looking for. The PMC Twenty are one approach; a single bass driver speaker. But a speaker like the Monitor Audio Gold 300 with multiple bass drivers still brings impressive clarity, and the added drivers bring more impact and weight to both music and movies.

Monitor Audio Gold 300 Speakers

Even with a Subwoofer in the mix, I suspect these multi-driver speaker are going to need some space. But, while I have a very large open floorplan, my actually listening space is about 16ft x 16ft (5m x 5m). I have floorstanding with 2x8" each, and they are placed with about 12" behind the speakers. I simply line up the front of my speakers with the front of my equipment stand, and that gives me the roughly 10" to 12" behind the speakers that I need. Though truthfully a bit more space would probably improve the sound. But I done the best I can with what I have to work with.

Though I've not heard them, they seem to have a pretty solid reputation, the ATC SCM40 are floorstanding 3-way speakers with a 6.5" bass driver. The bass is modest but adequate, and certainly better than the LS50, and they should integrate very well with a Subwoofer.

ATC SCM40 Entry Series Speakers

In the same vein as PMC and ATC single driver models, those who have heard PROAC speakers have been very impressed, though they are not cheap. But they do speaker in your price range -

Buy Floor Standing Speakers from HiFix | Lowest Prices, Brand PROAC

So, you need to refine your requirements beyond simply saying Floorstanding. We need to know what you expect from the speakers, and more specifically the kind of floorstanding you are looking for. And, perhaps, the range of form factors you can tolerate in your room. For example, do you demand that the speakers have very skinny front faces?

Just a few thoughts.

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Southern soul

Established Member
thank you for a very detailed and informed reply Steve, i feel you maybe correct in your assumption, after a lot of deliberation i have decided that floor standers may not be right for me, instead i have looked at my own set up and wondered what was lacking, i finally came to the conclusion the rel sub wasn't integrated as well as it could of been, i have since re-integrated it into my system and it seems to of done the trick, it now feels more powerful and seems to really moving some air now.

I think now i would need to spend nearer to £4k to get a floorstander that will match what i have now, so for that reason i will stick with what i have.

thank you all for your informed suggestions.


Established Member
For what it's worth, I just replaced my B&W CM10s with a MartinLogan ElectroMotion (£2,500) and I'm blown away. They are electrostatic which means they need a bit of space from the wall, and decent amp - but they are brilliant, incredibly transparent and detailed - orders of magnitude more than the B&W who are already very good.

These are tall speakers but because they are slanted, rounded and transparent (literally) my wife loves them. I'm happy too. I'll write a proper review soon.

I also have theS/3 sub and I found it indispensable with both floor standers even though they have decent bass. At least in my room - which sucks the bass so I need to compensate with the sub - though of course it needs to be properly calibrated, using REW of something similar.

Just my 2p
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Southern soul

Established Member
after some extensive demo's i can reveal my thought, firstly i would like to thank everyone for there thoughts on this subject, i have demo'd the spender A5R & PMC 23 & dynaudio x32's, firstly the spendors, immediately the speakers sounded clear and very smooth, the soundstage for me wasn't great, and the bass was non existent which had me puzzled as these were meant to be quite bass heavy, after a brief chat with the dealer we both agreed these were not right in my system.

next were the pmc 23's, my immediate thought was wow, very immersive, the sound just surrounded you and as for the bass it was quite something for such small speakers, no hint of brightness and very clear and smooth throughout the range, a big tick for the pmc's.

next was the dynaudio's, i really wanted these to shine through, unfortunately the bass was too much and both me and my dealer knew they would be too much in my room.... Doh

after listening to the pmc's again we both agreed these were by far the better speakers.....

but do they sound better than what i have already?

in a word NO

it looks like steve's thoughts were spot on and i would need to spend a considerable amount to better or even match what i already have so for me it looks like i'm happily sticking with my current setup.


Established Member
Thanks for reporting back. It can be quite good to go through an exercise like that and come to the conclusion that your current setup is as good as it can be for the money and there is no point forking out further £££.

Southern soul

Established Member
i agree, it was quite an eye opener, sometimes you forget how good a system is until you hear other set ups, this has reassured me that what i have is rather good.

my only gripe is i would like a remote control for my dac, but i can live with that! for now :)

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