First time small home surround sound help

AC3750L

Member
Hi All,

I have recently decided to buy a new TV and set my own surround sound up, which i have done before, but this time im in an upstairs flat with an odd shaped room.

I am trying to find a space for the subwoofer, but im struggling, I set the subwoofer at head height where i sit and play a song/audio file with LFE and the only place even after a "subwoofer crawl" that i can find that sounds really nice deep bass is at my computer chair..... at the other end of the room? No ammount of crawling around near my TV (where i had the sub originally and couldnt hear much bass untill i sat at my pc) has resulted in me finding a spot for my sub, just wondering if you could help at all?

I have some Mordaunt Short 906's coming for front channel as my old aiwa 91's are not high enough and really are too wide and need to go back to the hifi they beling too.

I want to have the bass audable without high levels because i have someone living below me, which isnt ideal, i can hear his bass clear as day and really deep upstairs when he is watching a film, but a subwoofer going all out upstairs is just going to be too much.

I have attached pictures so you can see what im up against, thanks all - Joe
 

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Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Move the sub behind the couch driver pointing your couch few cm away. This way you get massive impact and don´t need to run it so loud to bother neighbours. This is often used trick in apartments which i also used. It´s called nearfield placement although it would be true nearfield when you raise the sub at ear height truly, but how many can do that. One well known subwoofer designer also mentioned about the benefit of nearfield placement: This way the energy of sub reaches the seating position before it has chance to interact with room. Would be good if you could use 80hz crossovers for the speakers so the sub wouldn´t localize so easily. It will do that more or less depending also quality of your sub. Definitely worth a try behind your MLP directly, just remember to run your av-receivers auto setup again. I measured my sub behind the couch on phase 0 and 180, the first one sounded louder so it was the correct setting. You don´t need high gain setting so play around that so you don´t get out of range (-12db or -10db (Yamaha) for subwoofer level). Also turn the crossover /frequency (hz) control knob to max hz/lfe/bypass. Naturally set speakers small after running setup.
 

AC3750L

Member
Move the sub behind the couch driver pointing your couch few cm away. This way you get massive impact and don´t need to run it so loud to bother neighbours. This is often used trick in apartments which i also used. It´s called nearfield placement although it would be true nearfield when you raise the sub at ear height truly, but how many can do that. One well known subwoofer designer also mentioned about the benefit of nearfield placement: This way the energy of sub reaches the seating position before it has chance to interact with room. Would be good if you could use 80hz crossovers for the speakers so the sub wouldn´t localize so easily. It will do that more or less depending also quality of your sub. Definitely worth a try behind your MLP directly, just remember to run your av-receivers auto setup again. I measured my sub behind the couch on phase 0 and 180, the first one sounded louder so it was the correct setting. You don´t need high gain setting so play around that so you don´t get out of range (-12db or -10db (Yamaha) for subwoofer level). Also turn the crossover /frequency (hz) control knob to max hz/lfe/bypass. Naturally set speakers small after running setup.
Thats exactly where i have it at the moment, i figured if i cant hear nice deep bass all the time, i might as well feel it, and i certaintly can haha. Crossover is set to max and front speakers are 80hz and LFE is too, centre is at 120/140 i cant remember :)
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Thats exactly where i have it at the moment, i figured if i cant hear nice deep bass all the time, i might as well feel it, and i certaintly can haha. Crossover is set to max and front speakers are 80hz and LFE is too, centre is at 120/140 i cant remember :)
When you get new speakers and can place them higher you should try to turn off the center channel from receiver menu. Listen how it sounds and will you miss the tiny center channel. There is good chance that due to speakers being so close you don`t miss it. Takes few minutes to set it "Off" from menu. It looks so small, is placed inside cabinet and quite low. So again you might find the 906s is all you need if you can get them high enough = tweeters at seated ear height!

If you meant the LPF for LFE setting is 80hz, then bump it up to 120hz as you shouldn´t touch that setting!
 

AC3750L

Member
Yeah the 906's should be at perfect seated ear level, and i havent been liking my centre chanel since i put it in that cabinet, didnt really want it in there, i might try it back on the cabinet infront of the TV, inside the cabinet as i expected it sounds more PA system toned, ive EQ'd it so it doesent sound as bad, but ill change everything back when the 906's come and have a mess about, and possibly remove the centre chanel all together, i was bidding on another centre speaker thats almost double the length of this one, like you say its really small.

The LPF for the subwoofer was set to 80hz on the Onkyo already, ive not changed that, once the new speakers come tomorrow i can have a good play, do the microphone calibration and see how it sounds, hopefully it will sound a bit better, although the levels seem allover the place at the moment, one minute im turning it up to hear a conversation, next thing something blasts out like an explosion or music starts and it all goes twice as loud, But like i say once the new speakers come ill have a good play, distances and speaker angle and position and stuff, hopefully ill get it to sound great :)
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Yeah the 906's should be at perfect seated ear level, and i havent been liking my centre chanel since i put it in that cabinet, didnt really want it in there, i might try it back on the cabinet infront of the TV, inside the cabinet as i expected it sounds more PA system toned, ive EQ'd it so it doesent sound as bad, but ill change everything back when the 906's come and have a mess about, and possibly remove the centre chanel all together, i was bidding on another centre speaker thats almost double the length of this one, like you say its really small.

The LPF for the subwoofer was set to 80hz on the Onkyo already, ive not changed that, once the new speakers come tomorrow i can have a good play, do the microphone calibration and see how it sounds, hopefully it will sound a bit better, although the levels seem allover the place at the moment, one minute im turning it up to hear a conversation, next thing something blasts out like an explosion or music starts and it all goes twice as loud, But like i say once the new speakers come ill have a good play, distances and speaker angle and position and stuff, hopefully ill get it to sound great :)

Up it to 120hz.

When you have run the setup don´t change the subwoofer distance as it usually shows further distance than reality, that would be correct due to delay.

Ditch the small center channel and run 4.1 system. Probably sounds lot better if the 906s are any good and you sit middle. Little toe in and voila.
 

AC3750L

Member
Ill put it to 120 now, i wont touch the distance or anything once its calibrated, i understand that it needs to add the delay. I will also remove the centre speaker and give that a go :)

Thanks - Joe
 

AC3750L

Member
Up it to 120hz.

When you have run the setup don´t change the subwoofer distance as it usually shows further distance than reality, that would be correct due to delay.

Ditch the small center channel and run 4.1 system. Probably sounds lot better if the 906s are any good and you sit middle. Little toe in and voila.
Ive removed the centre speaker in the Onkyo menu, and set the LFE to 120hz, made a huge difference already the vocals sound much better, not like being shouted at down a megaphone through a dishcloth 😂 Is it worth getting a bigger, better centre speaker for under the TV (not in the unit) because originally it didnt sound as bad before i put it in the unit, but it still was quite "coney" is all i can describe the sound as.

Thanks - Joe
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Ive removed the centre speaker in the Onkyo menu, and set the LFE to 120hz, made a huge difference already the vocals sound much better, not like being shouted at down a megaphone through a dishcloth 😂 Is it worth getting a bigger, better centre speaker for under the TV (not in the unit) because originally it didnt sound as bad before i put it in the unit, but it still was quite "coney" is all i can describe the sound as.

Thanks - Joe

If you can find matching center to 906 assuming it´s not some wife friendly small model and you could place it outside the cabinet. You don´t really have space in front of tv either. I would wait until you get those 906s and listen do you miss center channel. As you said it already sounds better so should be even better with those 906s.
 

AC3750L

Member
If you can find matching center to 906 assuming it´s not some wife friendly small model and you could place it outside the cabinet. You don´t really have space in front of tv either. I would wait until you get those 906s and listen do you miss center channel. As you said it already sounds better so should be even better with those 906s.
Yeah your right, the only one mordaunt short centre they do in this similar range is the ms905 which is much bigger than my MS304, but ill see how it sounds when i have ear level tweeters on the 906's and its setup through the mic calibration, bit of fettling and it should be great :)
 

AC3750L

Member
Hi All, my speakers came, bit dinged from the courier which im trying to sort out now, but they still work just fine.

Does anyone know why i cant get composite video from the Playstation 2 and VHS player to passthrough to the HDMI out on the Onkyo, from the manual it looks like you can do it.
 

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AC3750L

Member
Hi All, my speakers came, bit dinged from the courier which im trying to sort out now, but they still work just fine.

Does anyone know why i cant get composite video from the Playstation 2 and VHS player to passthrough to the HDMI out on the Onkyo, from the manual it looks like you can do it.
Ignore that, the VHS player is now working fine, and the playstation is working on and off, its struggling to read the disc and sitting on the onkyo's blue screen then now and again going black, ill sort it im sure.
 

AC3750L

Member
Im quite fed up, Not only did my mordaunt short speakers turn up both dinted (see pictures) WHICH i could live with, but ive noticed one tweeter sounds massively different, one speaker sounds clear and perfect as i would expect, one doesent have that high top end, sounds flat in comparison, so either the crossover has been damaged or its the tweeter itself. Really gutted :(
 

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Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Im quite fed up, Not only did my mordaunt short speakers turn up both dinted (see pictures) WHICH i could live with, but ive noticed one tweeter sounds massively different, one speaker sounds clear and perfect as i would expect, one doesent have that high top end, sounds flat in comparison, so either the crossover has been damaged or its the tweeter itself. Really gutted :(
Oh crap! Was they from ebay? You should be able to return and get money back.
 

AC3750L

Member
Oh crap! Was they from ebay? You should be able to return and get money back.
Yes it was ebay, but the speakers are really big and heavy and finding a box is going to be a nightmare :( I do have a replacement tweeter for a mordaunt short, but i dont know if its the exact same model, but it looks the same, and i have plenty of capacitors and stuff if it is the crossover, but its such a shame that they got damaged, they came from 200 miles away though :(
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
It´s always risky when buying old used stuff people selling broken products. I think you can get some box from local post office and then just pack it up and send pictures before for the seller. I assume you have contacted him. You can contact ebay too so you get your money back. Not worth to start repairing. You can get new speakers for 120-150£/pair. Don´t cheap on speakers. Buy better ones with finance if you have to! You keep good speakers 10years easily. Imagine the other useless stuff you throw money on. Don`t save on speakers if possible!
 

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