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First time LCD buyer - will I notice response times?

Discussion in 'LCD & LED LCD TVs' started by gaz@manc, Aug 4, 2005.

  1. gaz@manc

    gaz@manc
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    Most of the LCDs I've seen within my price/size range have response times of 25ms. Now, I've been advised to get a 16ms but very often either the price doubles or the resolution halves. If I've never used an LCD TV before would a 25ms response time be noticeable, esp when playing Xbox? I'd be sitting about 3-4ft away from the screen.
     
  2. probedb

    probedb
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    Since no-one else has replied (which happens frequently in here to newbs I've noticed). Depends how sensitive you are. I have a ViewSonic 27" set which quotes 16ms response time and in general I don't notice it. The only time I see it is when you have fairly fast moving credits, i.e. white on black then I can see a quick disappearing trail left behind.

    Games might be more of an issue but I've not tried that yet....can't wait to try HL2 at 1280x720 on a 27" screen :D
     
  3. Da_Rude_Baboon

    Da_Rude_Baboon
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    From my expierience of using LCD monitors for PC games then yes you will notice it. As a rule anything over 16ms will produce lots of ghosting. Make sure you demo though as response times can be misleading as they are quite often messaged by the marketing department.
     
  4. ianh64

    ianh64
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    You want a response time between 8 and 16ms but they are calculated differently by different manufacturers so can be meaningless to compare. European frame rates are generally 50Hz (20ms) and US are 60Hz (16.6ms) so you want to aim for something that can cope with both. Below 8ms something happens in the brain and the picture gets worse again. I am still trying to find the article about this phenominum if someone can help. Some people are more prone to seeing blur than others, or mistake motion compensation artifacts for LCD response blur. Always best to try before you buy.

    -Ian
     
  5. Doctor Hades

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    I play all my PC games on a 17" 10ms TFT and I've never seen any ghosting or blurring in fast moving games like Unreal Tournament 2004 or Need For Speed: Underground 2 for example. I also play console games on my Samsung LE-26R41BD LCD TV, which has a quoted 12ms response time, and again I've seen no ghosting/smearing/blurring at all through either RGB SCART or component video. Scrolling text on Sky Digital appears fine for the most part with only really fast scrolling resulting in blurring but then it's probably the same on CRTs too!!! Fast sports such as rugby and football, where you have quick camera pans, again look free of blurring or ghosting and it's easy to forget you're watching an LCD.

    I recall my first TFT monitor for my PC being 25ms and that did show smearing and ghosting when turning quickly in games but in my experience anything below 16ms is fine and anything below that is better still.

    By the way you can calculate how many frames per second a response time gives by dividing 1000 by it, i.e. a 16ms response time gives 1000/16 = 62.5 frames per second. Since most console games run at either 25/30 or 50/60 frames per second and TV and DVDs run at 24/30fps, you can see that 16ms is perfectly adequate.
     
  6. Ramspeed

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    Thanks to Ian and Hades. You guys should spread the word. You've confirmed something for me. Which is this: the current crop of LCD's Panny/JVC etc. seem finally to have abolished motion blur altogether (well, certainly in HD where less upscaling is needed). But not because the panel's have got faster (they had 16ms panels last year) - because the technology driving the panels has improved.

    Which leads me to wonder. If a 16ms panel is all that's required to display 60 fps @ 60hz why the hell bother making panels faster than 16ms? Is it all marketing bullsh*t because reponse times are easy to quote as a supposed perfrormance indicator?
     
  7. Doctor Hades

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    Ah well the thing is that quoted response times like 16ms aren't fixed. I believe it's a measure of how quickly white turns to black and vice versa and other colours have slower or faster latencies, something like that. Therefore a badly made 10ms-quoted panel could have more smearing/ghosting/blurring than a good 16ms one! There's an article on the Tom's Hardware Guide website that explains it better than I have and their reviews of LCDs measure the screen's latency timings.

    So the lower response times like 7ms and 4ms are just guaranteeing that you will get lower latencies across all colours and more likely under 16ms. If a manufacturer could guarantee a panel has a latency of no more than 16ms, I don't think a 10ms or 4ms would look any better for conventional games, TV and DVDs unless you ran PC games at 120fps on it @ 120Hz!
     

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