First HT, 5.1.2 or 5.1.4? Looking for feedback on parts & sketches

[jon lord]

First Home Theater, 5.1.2 or 5.1.4? Looking for feedback on parts & sketches
Looking for advice & suggestions for our first dedicated home theater room for me and my SO. We have a big room in our basement which we are planning to have divided in half by a wall, and where the other half will be the theater room. This gives the following dimensions for the room:
3.31 x 4.5m (10.8 x 17.7ft) which is roughly 15m²(161ft²) with the 4.5m direction being flexible to be lengthened a bit… realistically by 30cm(1ft) but more if absolutely needed. Ceiling height is 211cm (7ft).


Budget: 6000€ (stretch budget 7000€~). LG Oled77c1 already purchased so -3000€ on budget, the rest is for speakers & receiver.
Use case: 80% movies, 19% gaming(mostly PC but some PS4 and perhaps some retro consoles), 1% music

Current sketches how I have planned so far below. Please note that nothing is set in stone (except the TV which is already bought) so things can be moved around etc. Also I will be adding carpet & fixing acoustics afterwards.

General questions​

1. First question is if my room is big enough for Atmos* 5.1.4 or if I should go with 5.1.2 . This is one of key factor driving up the cost so I want to be sure if this is worth it with my room size or is it totally overkill?
2. After I have decided on the route to go I will have further questions regarding placement of the speakers, mostly about the surrounds. Due to the couch being wide(2.30m~) its hard to have them according to dolby specifications so having them a tad further back as well as having them further up on a wall-mount tilted down to the listening positions...is this pure blasphemy? I've heard this is not optimal when using atmos due to possible separation issues.

*Atmos/height channels, not sure what the correct term is. In my case it would be “On ceiling” type of speaker, also possible to mount them on the walls if needed.

Speaker questions & feedback​

I have been looking at the Triangle Borea series as main speakers as I think they are within the price range and I demoed them at my local shop (Br07 floor speakers in this case) and they sounded clear & bright which I liked. Also bying them in a 5.0(or 5.0.2) package they are a lot cheaper.
So here is my suggested list to buy:

Speaker	Name	Specifications	Link
Tower	Triangle Borea BR07	2.5way. 91db sensitivity. 44 Hz–22 KHz (+/- 3dB)	Website
Center	Triangle Borea BRC1	2way. 90db sensitivity. 57 Hz–22 KHz (+/- 3dB)	Website
Surround	Triangle Borea BR02	2way. 89db sensitivity. 51 Hz–22 KHz (+/- 3dB)	Website

Price: package: 1300€. With 2x BRA1 atmos 1700€


Atmos/height speaker options (either 1 or 2 pairs depending on question #1):

Speaker	Name	Specifications	Link
Atmos	XTZ Cinema S2 Atmosphere	2way. 86db sensitivity. 80 Hz–30 KHz (+/- 3dB)	Website
Atmos	Triangle Borea BRA1	2way. 89db sensitivity. 90 Hz–22 KHz (+/- 3dB)	Website

Price: XTZ 400€ pair. Triangle 450€ pair(but cheaper if bought in above package)


Subwoofer:

Speaker	Name	Specifications	Link
Sub	XTZ 12.17 Edge	12" ported. 19 - 180 Hz (+/- 3dB)	Website

Price: 700-750€ (700 if I decide to go with a warranty returned one, which still are pretty much brand new and same 5y warranty)

My thoughts:​

Subwoofer: I'm very confident in my choice of subwoofer. Seems to be one of the better bang for your buck subs in Europe with a lot versatility due to its different EQ:s, PEQ and adjustable ports/seals.

Main speakers: there are soooo many brands out there, and not all available for test listening but I'm somewhat confident in my choice of the boreas after reading and researching.

Question 3: The borea towers: should I upgrade the BR07 to to BR08 for 60-150€ extra? It adds one extra woofer and reliefs the mid of having to play low frequencies since its 3way setup instead of 2.5way... but on the other hand since I'm using a subwoofer I dont need more bass from my towers since they are cut anyways with the crossover?

Atmos: I'm not sure regarding the atmos speakers, I'm leaning more to the XTZ ones due they have an excellent mounting mechanism(& angles. See this image how flexible it is ) for the ceiling (the boreas can only be properly fastened to walls), they are somewhat smaller & lighter that might work better with my already low ceiling and they include the mounts. Also if I understand correctly atmos speakers do not need to be timbre matched to the rest.

Question 4: Feedback on speakers?

Receiver thoughts/feedback​

I have been looking at the following: Depending on question #1:

For 5.1.2 :

• Denon AVR-X1700H (750€),
• Denon AVR-X2700H (950€),
• Marantz SR5015 (1140€)

Of these the X1700H looks most interesting & has better HDMI 2.1 implementation. Feature wise all have the features I’m mostly looking for. The Marantz is more expensive for “similar spec” which I’m not sure is worth it... does it have better sound quality? (trying to ignore marketing mumbo jumbo regarding power which makes 0.01% difference in volume)


For 5.1.4 :
- Denon AVR-X3700H (1450€)
Kinda expensive with current pricing but looks interesting nevertheless, and basically is the only model in this category so really no questions about this product.

• + Has a composite analog video input switch so I could dust of my NES & SNES (tho since it does not convert the analog I need to invest in an upscaler, perhaps a retrotink).
• + Audyssey MultEQ XT32 which I’ve heard good things about (tho in practice I know nothing about the differences compared to the lower tier ones)
• - Only has 1x HDMI 2.1 input but workaround is E-ARC via TV which has 4 so im not even sure this is a real issue…
• - It seems to some features that I most likely won’t be needing and I feel “bad” for wasting money on them: like pre-outs

Question 5: Feedback on my AVR thoughts?

Conclusion​

While my room is far from optimal and I'll most likely have to compromise on speaker placement following dolby's specification id still like to do what works best for the room and to have it somewhat "future proof"(tho I dont really have thoughts expanding, more of from a feature stand point I want to be able to have it future proofed). Am I on the right track and does my setup make sense for the room type?

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

 

[gibbsy]

Welcome to the Forum.

I'll keep my answer short. You certainly have the room for 5.1.4 providing you keep the seating in it's current planned position. This would mean you need the X3700 as a minimum.

On ceiling or in ceiling. In ceiling would be best as they will be flush with the ceiling but means you will need to make holes in the ceiling. This is where you become fixed in your seating positions as holes are more or less permanent. On ceiling then you can use small lightweight speakers the main advantage is that these can be moved.

As for your choice of main speakers I've not listened to them and therefore will not comment. Speakers are a personal choice and whatever you choose it is essential that your audition them alongside the amp of your choice.

 

[Deleted member 901590]

As you have the very lucky position where you can have the sofa forward of the rear wall, why would you not put the door more central, then you could have surround backs either side of the door and move your surround speakers to a slightly more forward position?

The x3700 would process 7.x.4 only need two of the channels externally amplified, although if you choose 2 heights, the x3700 can amplify 7.x.2.

While my room is far from optimal

You need to look at some of the other rooms on this forum, I would say you are very very lucky. I'm jealous of a room like yours!

 

[kenshingintoki]

First Home Theater, 5.1.2 or 5.1.4? Looking for feedback on parts & sketches
Looking for advice & suggestions for our first dedicated home theater room for me and my SO. We have a big room in our basement which we are planning to have divided in half by a wall, and where the other half will be the theater room. This gives the following dimensions for the room:
3.31 x 4.5m (10.8 x 17.7ft) which is roughly 15m²(161ft²) with the 4.5m direction being flexible to be lengthened a bit… realistically by 30cm(1ft) but more if absolutely needed. Ceiling height is 211cm (7ft).


Budget: 6000€ (stretch budget 7000€~). LG Oled77c1 already purchased so -3000€ on budget, the rest is for speakers & receiver.
Use case: 80% movies, 19% gaming(mostly PC but some PS4 and perhaps some retro consoles), 1% music

Current sketches how I have planned so far below. Please note that nothing is set in stone (except the TV which is already bought) so things can be moved around etc. Also I will be adding carpet & fixing acoustics afterwards.

View attachment 1665428
View attachment 1665429

View attachment 1665430
View attachment 1665431

View attachment 1665432​

View attachment 1665433​

General questions​

1. First question is if my room is big enough for Atmos* 5.1.4 or if I should go with 5.1.2 . This is one of key factor driving up the cost so I want to be sure if this is worth it with my room size or is it totally overkill?
2. After I have decided on the route to go I will have further questions regarding placement of the speakers, mostly about the surrounds. Due to the couch being wide(2.30m~) its hard to have them according to dolby specifications so having them a tad further back as well as having them further up on a wall-mount tilted down to the listening positions...is this pure blasphemy? I've heard this is not optimal when using atmos due to possible separation issues.

*Atmos/height channels, not sure what the correct term is. In my case it would be “On ceiling” type of speaker, also possible to mount them on the walls if needed.

Speaker questions & feedback​

I have been looking at the Triangle Borea series as main speakers as I think they are within the price range and I demoed them at my local shop (Br07 floor speakers in this case) and they sounded clear & bright which I liked. Also bying them in a 5.0(or 5.0.2) package they are a lot cheaper.
So here is my suggested list to buy:

Speaker	Name	Specifications	Link
Tower	Triangle Borea BR07	2.5way. 91db sensitivity. 44 Hz–22 KHz (+/- 3dB)	Website
Center	Triangle Borea BRC1	2way. 90db sensitivity. 57 Hz–22 KHz (+/- 3dB)	Website
Surround	Triangle Borea BR02	2way. 89db sensitivity. 51 Hz–22 KHz (+/- 3dB)	Website

Price: package: 1300€. With 2x BRA1 atmos 1700€


Atmos/height speaker options (either 1 or 2 pairs depending on question #1):

Speaker	Name	Specifications	Link
Atmos	XTZ Cinema S2 Atmosphere	2way. 86db sensitivity. 80 Hz–30 KHz (+/- 3dB)	Website
Atmos	Triangle Borea BRA1	2way. 89db sensitivity. 90 Hz–22 KHz (+/- 3dB)	Website

Price: XTZ 400€ pair. Triangle 450€ pair(but cheaper if bought in above package)


Subwoofer:

Speaker	Name	Specifications	Link
Sub	XTZ 12.17 Edge	12" ported. 19 - 180 Hz (+/- 3dB)	Website

Price: 700-750€ (700 if I decide to go with a warranty returned one, which still are pretty much brand new and same 5y warranty)

My thoughts:​

Subwoofer: I'm very confident in my choice of subwoofer. Seems to be one of the better bang for your buck subs in Europe with a lot versatility due to its different EQ:s, PEQ and adjustable ports/seals.

Main speakers: there are soooo many brands out there, and not all available for test listening but I'm somewhat confident in my choice of the boreas after reading and researching.


Atmos: I'm not sure regarding the atmos speakers, I'm leaning more to the XTZ ones due they have an excellent mounting mechanism(& angles. See this image how flexible it is ) for the ceiling (the boreas can only be properly fastened to walls), they are somewhat smaller & lighter that might work better with my already low ceiling and they include the mounts. Also if I understand correctly atmos speakers do not need to be timbre matched to the rest.

Receiver thoughts/feedback​

I have been looking at the following: Depending on question #1:

For 5.1.2 :

• Denon AVR-X1700H (750€),
• Denon AVR-X2700H (950€),
• Marantz SR5015 (1140€)

Of these the X1700H looks most interesting & has better HDMI 2.1 implementation. Feature wise all have the features I’m mostly looking for. The Marantz is more expensive for “similar spec” which I’m not sure is worth it... does it have better sound quality? (trying to ignore marketing mumbo jumbo regarding power which makes 0.01% difference in volume)


For 5.1.4 :
- Denon AVR-X3700H (1450€)
Kinda expensive with current pricing but looks interesting nevertheless, and basically is the only model in this category so really no questions about this product.

• + Has a composite analog video input switch so I could dust of my NES & SNES (tho since it does not convert the analog I need to invest in an upscaler, perhaps a retrotink).
• + Audyssey MultEQ XT32 which I’ve heard good things about (tho in practice I know nothing about the differences compared to the lower tier ones)
• - Only has 1x HDMI 2.1 input but workaround is E-ARC via TV which has 4 so im not even sure this is a real issue…
• - It seems to some features that I most likely won’t be needing and I feel “bad” for wasting money on them: like pre-outs

Conclusion​

While my room is far from optimal and I'll most likely have to compromise on speaker placement following dolby's specification id still like to do what works best for the room and to have it somewhat "future proof"(tho I dont really have thoughts expanding, more of from a feature stand point I want to be able to have it future proofed). Am I on the right track and does my setup make sense for the room type?

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

Thats a lovely sketch.

Which panels are you planning to use? I'm planning something similar wall-wise.

I'd go for 5.1.4 with the aim to upgrade to 7.2.4. You have the space.

 

[kenshingintoki]

Btw, the decor for your room with the dark ceiling and wall is begging for a projector. If you could move the sofa back another 50cm, I think you could easily pull off a very big screen but maybe thats a discussion for a potential upgrade in a year or so's time?

 

[Deleted member 901590]

Speakers are a personal choice

I know I ticked an "agree" but wanted to just reiterate these five words that aren't said enough on this forum

 

[jon lord]

As you have the very lucky position where you can have the sofa forward of the rear wall, why would you not put the door more central, then you could have surround backs either side of the door and move your surround speakers to a slightly more forward position?

The x3700 would process 7.x.4 only need two of the channels externally amplified, although if you choose 2 heights, the x3700 can amplify 7.x.2.



You need to look at some of the other rooms on this forum, I would say you are very very lucky. I'm jealous of a room like yours!

point taken regarding centering the door, that I might do! The reasoning was this shelf from Ikea that we have there (willmove it/get rid of it) which I was thinking having it off center.

Regarding the room size: I guess there allways smaller ones out there... In my case I was thinking about width & height of the room mostly which affects atmos & seating. For a couch I wish either a 4seater or two rows but that will most likely not work for this room.

Thats a lovely sketch.

Which panels are you planning to use? I'm planning something similar wall-wise.

I'd go for 5.1.4 with the aim to upgrade to 7.2.4. You have the space.

Thank you! All modeled in Blender.
Im not sure what panel you are referring to? If you mean the panel on the wall it is already there and I'm not sure what kinda paneling it is. It is currently pained white but I will paint it in a darker color.

 

[jon lord]

Btw, the decor for your room with the dark ceiling and wall is begging for a projector. If you could move the sofa back another 50cm, I think you could easily pull off a very big screen but maybe thats a discussion for a potential upgrade in a year or so's time?

I had a projector in my mind the first few weeks of planning this but reverted to the OLED since it dropped in price. Reasoning was that I wanted to have a low-latency projector such as the Optoma uhz50 but it seemed to compromise too much on the picture quality vs a projectors in the same price range which was not targeted at gaming. Since the setup will be mostly for movies I dont want the picture quality worsened because I want to be able to play fast shooters etc. So going for an 77" OLED with perfect blacks is a dream come true anyways.

We will see in the future, I would a projector for the size.

I know I ticked an "agree" but wanted to just reiterate these five words that aren't said enough on this forum

Thanks for the feedback, I guess that is what I needed to hear. As I mentioned I was at the store and listened to the boreas and I liked them. The only question left regarding them is if I should go for the BR08 instead of BR07(see my original post regarding 2.5 vs 3way), tho going for BR08 is stretching the budget to "painful"... but I would rather buy once & cry once rather than regret it later.

 

[Deleted member 901590]

The reasoning was this shelf from Ikea that we have there (willmove it/get rid of it

Or take a saw to it to resize

 

[jon lord]

I believe Question 1 is answered and I will go with 5.1.4.

I have unfortunately went down an another rabbit hole regarding center channels... Is it worth going for a non MTM style Center?
The ones I can see that are somewhat in the pricerange are SVS Prime series, Emotiva Airmotiv series... But there are other negatives with these series tho(tho you guys are more qualified to answer how much of a negative these are): lower efficiency and on the emotivas lower impediance @ 4. And also the whole 5.0 package are more expensive which will cause me to have to delay the atmos speakers most likely.

Thoughts?

 

[Deleted member 901590]

Have you considered the Monoprice Encore speaker package?

 

[jon lord]

Have you considered the Monoprice Encore speaker package?

I have not. Just browsing their site currently, cannot find any package but the speakers seem "too cheap" ? Also the center is MTM which is the same as the boreas. Is it even an issue going for MTM center for a small home theater with 3-4 seats on the width?

 

[Deleted member 901590]

Americanaudioco.uk sells the package don't know about shipping?

 

[Gasp3621]

I believe Question 1 is answered and I will go with 5.1.4.

I have unfortunately went down an another rabbit hole regarding center channels... Is it worth going for a non MTM style Center?
The ones I can see that are somewhat in the pricerange are SVS Prime series, Emotiva Airmotiv series... But there are other negatives with these series tho(tho you guys are more qualified to answer how much of a negative these are): lower efficiency and on the emotivas lower impediance @ 4. And also the whole 5.0 package are more expensive which will cause me to have to delay the atmos speakers most likely.

Thoughts?

Depends are the listeners more than ~20degrees outside as this is where the negative changes can be seen.

One good option would be Kef Q650c (2,5-way coaxial) which is one of the better ones which doesn´t suffer as much as the usual 2-way MTMs. Also the Kef is huge with 6,5" drivers, there is plenty positive feedback for it. At least in UK there is sale for Q650c and Q550 towers, check what they cost in Sweden. Q350 with stands would do fine too as front mains unless you have dreamed towers long time and just want them due to looks, then the extra money is worth in long run (no buyers remorse). Q750 would use identical drivers to Q650c, but it`s often expensive and you should get away with the smaller model in your compact room.

X3700H for sure from those receiver options!

SVS PB1000 Pro would be step up from XTZ, but the XTZ is more compact and nicer looking plus it`s cheaper to add 2nd sub which you should consider as you aren`t going to get great response for all seats, even for the main seat at centre there could be some big dips. You can already have a look how the response would look like by downloading Room EQ Wizard and using the room simulation. You will add your room dimensions and where your head would exactly. Then you can add subs and move them freely. Trying one sub at front or one at front left with second sub rear right wall. Naturally you can move the listener (head) sideways so you see how the response changes for the other listeners.

SVS PB-1000 Pro - Aktiv - Subwoofers

 

[jon lord]

Depends are the listeners more than ~20degrees outside as this is where the negative changes can be seen.

One good option would be Kef Q650c (2,5-way coaxial) which is one of the better ones which doesn´t suffer as much as the usual 2-way MTMs. Also the Kef is huge with 6,5" drivers, there is plenty positive feedback for it. At least in UK there is sale for Q650c and Q550 towers, check what they cost in Sweden. Q350 with stands would do fine too as front mains unless you have dreamed towers long time and just want them due to looks, then the extra money is worth in long run (no buyers remorse). Q750 would use identical drivers to Q650c, but it`s often expensive and you should get away with the smaller model in your compact room.

X3700H for sure from those receiver options!

SVS PB1000 Pro would be step up from XTZ, but the XTZ is more compact and nicer looking plus it`s cheaper to add 2nd sub which you should consider as you aren`t going to get great response for all seats, even for the main seat at centre there could be some big dips. You can already have a look how the response would look like by downloading Room EQ Wizard and using the room simulation. You will add your room dimensions and where your head would exactly. Then you can add subs and move them freely. Trying one sub at front or one at front left with second sub rear right wall. Naturally you can move the listener (head) sideways so you see how the response changes for the other listeners.

SVS PB-1000 Pro - Aktiv - Subwoofers

Thank you for this valuable feedback!
I have now researched on the KEF's (yet another rabbit hole) and they look interesting, a bit more expensive depending if going for Q550 (instead of Q350s) than the triangles but maybe worth it? The frequency responses of these seem all over the place (for example Q150 plays lower than Q350 etc) so I'm having a hard time getting any kind of a mental image of the speakers.

I will see if I can find any store nearby that have them for listening (the ones that seem to sell them do not have them for show/listening in store it seems).

Sound signature aside, is it worth going KEF just because of the "better" center? Will it make a big difference in my case(95% of the times it will be just me and my SO watching movies near the MLP)?
Question 2: Q350 vs Q550 as fronts in a movie/gaming oriented setup in my 15m² room

Edit: I found that one retailer here has the Q750 in white (I would prefer black) for 950€ which seems to be a good deal since the Q550 usually go for go for usually 1000€+, If going the KEF route, should I go with these?

 

[Gasp3621]

I would want to at least hear them, ask if the dealer has Q650c so can put a demo for you with Q750. They do have the coaxial UniQ drivers which some would see as benefit, but your ears will be judge. Try few different volume levels as comments has been made that they really open more when you listen louder. You need to be sure about the finish though. If after seeing them you still feel you want black but the lower price pushing you to whites then do no buy them! Nothing worse than buyers remorse.


AVForums actually reviewed the Q750 & Q650c based system here:

KEF Q Series Dolby Atmos Surround Sound Speaker System Review

The KEF Q Series speakers add object-based Dolby Atmos immersive audio to your system

www.avforums.com

Few pictures to show the size (check also youtube videos if in doubt):

 

[Gasp3621]

Listen the Q350s if they have them! You do need good looking stands like NorStone Stylum 2 (60cm) which adds cost little. With quality subwoofer or two, sitting close to speakers in small room the standmount model should be fine performance wise. For many it comes down to looks with the floorstanders so if that is the case then it`s easy choice. You aren´t running the floorstanders as full range, but they do have bit more power handling due to extra driver, tad higher sensitivity and likely sound bit more dynamic if pushed hard. Compared to Q350 with the Q750 you get one extra bass driver (with UniQ) and two passive radiators. Q650c has UniQ driver + one bass driver and one passive radiator which acts kinda as a port. If the white Q750 is not nice then perhaps black Q550, but i would still choose the larger centre as most what you hear comes from the centre channel. Keep us posted how you like the Kef sound and if possible try to listen few other brands.

Focal Chora 806 and Chora 800 centre if priced competetively. B&W 606 S2 and HTM6 S2 are popular, but the centre is 2-way with smaller drivers and some members haven´t been that happy with it. Klipsch RP-600M and RP-600C are one of the most popular choice in US for HT, same price group. Monitor Audio Silver 100 and C250 or C350 depending can you find the Silver 6G or Silver 7G, solid choice!

Then you also have XTZ which is Swedish company. Check local showroom.

XTZ Spirit 8 center speaker - XTZ Sound in Balance

With enormous power and dynamics, the Spirit 8 center speaker is capable to reproduce voices in a natural and accurate way.

www.xtzsound.eu

XTZ Spirit 4 compact speaker - XTZ Sound in Balance

XTZ Spirit 4 compact speaker. With customized drivers the Spirit 4 plays with astonishing deep bass qualities and a fine and precise treble.

www.xtzsound.eu

XTZ Spirit 2 wallspeaker - XTZ Sound in Balance

Despite the small dimensione, the Spirit 2 is able to perform a natural and very precise soundstage with a dry and fast bass.

www.xtzsound.eu

 

[jon lord]

Q350 with stands would do fine too as front mains unless you have dreamed towers long

With quality subwoofer or two, sitting close to speakers in small room the standmount model should be fine performance wise. For many it comes down to looks with the floorstanders so if that is the case then it`s easy choice. You aren´t running the floorstanders as full range, but they do have bit more power handling due to extra driver, tad higher sensitivity and likely sound bit more dynamic if pushed hard. Compared to Q350 with the Q750 you get one extra bass driver (with UniQ) and two passive radiators.

I would be lying to myself if I would say that bookshelf speakers would be OK as fronts... even if its technically the truth there is something with having tower speakers.
Honestly I'm not 100% sure about our use cases outside of movie watching so there might be scenarios where towers might assist with more SPL from stereo playback etc or something like this.

TLDR: Buy once cry once and go with towers?

I would want to at least hear them, ask if the dealer has Q650c so can put a demo for you with Q750. They do have the coaxial UniQ drivers which some would see as benefit, but your ears will be judge. Try few different volume levels as comments has been made that they really open more when you listen louder. You need to be sure about the finish though.

Yes I need to hear them before ordering but this seems not possible*.
I sent one dealer an email yesterday regarding the KEF's (email thread where I already asked about the boreas & emotivas earlier) and If they can be demoed and what they think about them and I got a reply that just said they recommend the boreas or emotivas instead of KEF for HT use and that KEF is better for music and that they dont have any KEF's for demoing... (they have all of the models for sale).

* Will keep emailing different retailers nearby, one I already got an answer that they have only the kef ls50 wireless for demo but this is a totally different beast

I get so mixed messages by everybody and unsure who is biased (most likely the dealers?). Im just trying to understand why would he not recommend the KEF's for HT. Soundsignature aside: my observation(from a novice perspective, let me know your thoughts on this):

• The KEF's seem like a very good choice due to their tweeter/mid design and having this in the center channel as the base of your HT (since everywhere I read the center channel is the most important channel right??). saw Erins audio corner's video "The Problem with Most Center Channel Speakers" which convinced me atleast that MTM designs are bad. Or am I overthinking the whole MTM vs non-MTM design here?
• Or is the issue with the rest of the speakers? Like are the tower speakers "wrong choice" for HT or something... maybe their passive radiator design or what am I missing here? Everybody on the internet is mostly positive on the Q-series so I just want to understand both the pros and cons of everything I'm looking at since this is HT project an expensive-project so I dont want to leave no stone unturned.

You need to be sure about the finish though. If after seeing them you still feel you want black but the lower price pushing you to whites then do no buy them! Nothing worse than buyers remorse.

Honestly I like the white ones (so the "cheap" Q750's are so tempting... I'm afraid the offer will expire soon.) but here is my nitpicky reasoning behind going black: no white surface reflections from tv/projector(if in future) but perhaps this is not really an issue in a 100% dark room?

Q650c has UniQ driver + one bass driver and one passive radiator which acts kinda as a port. If the white Q750 is not nice then perhaps black Q550, but i would still choose the larger centre as most what you hear comes from the centre channel. Keep us posted how you like the Kef sound and if possible try to listen few other brands.

Focal Chora 806 and Chora 800 centre if priced competetively. B&W 606 S2 and HTM6 S2 are popular, but the centre is 2-way with smaller drivers and some members haven´t been that happy with it. Klipsch RP-600M and RP-600C are one of the most popular choice in US for HT, same price group. Monitor Audio Silver 100 and C250 or C350 depending can you find the Silver 6G or Silver 7G, solid choice!

Then you also have XTZ which is Swedish company. Check local showroom.

XTZ Spirit 8 center speaker - XTZ Sound in Balance

With enormous power and dynamics, the Spirit 8 center speaker is capable to reproduce voices in a natural and accurate way.

www.xtzsound.eu

XTZ Spirit 4 compact speaker - XTZ Sound in Balance

XTZ Spirit 4 compact speaker. With customized drivers the Spirit 4 plays with astonishing deep bass qualities and a fine and precise treble.

www.xtzsound.eu

XTZ Spirit 2 wallspeaker - XTZ Sound in Balance

Despite the small dimensione, the Spirit 2 is able to perform a natural and very precise soundstage with a dry and fast bass.

www.xtzsound.eu

If going KEF Q650C is certain, the size is not an issue since everything (furniture/room layout etc) will be bought/built according to speaker specs.

Focal Chora 806 and Chora 800 centre if priced competetively. B&W 606 S2 and HTM6 S2 are popular, but the centre is 2-way with smaller drivers and some members haven´t been that happy with it. Klipsch RP-600M and RP-600C are one of the most popular choice in US for HT, same price group. Monitor Audio Silver 100 and C250 or C350 depending can you find the Silver 6G or Silver 7G, solid choice!

Then you also have XTZ which is Swedish company. Check local showroom.

XTZ Spirit 8 center speaker - XTZ Sound in Balance

With enormous power and dynamics, the Spirit 8 center speaker is capable to reproduce voices in a natural and accurate way.

www.xtzsound.eu

XTZ Spirit 4 compact speaker - XTZ Sound in Balance

XTZ Spirit 4 compact speaker. With customized drivers the Spirit 4 plays with astonishing deep bass qualities and a fine and precise treble.

www.xtzsound.eu

XTZ Spirit 2 wallspeaker - XTZ Sound in Balance

Despite the small dimensione, the Spirit 2 is able to perform a natural and very precise soundstage with a dry and fast bass.

www.xtzsound.eu

The Focals you listed seem really expensive here and i cant find chora 800 here, only some other cheaper focal centers(Chora center, Chorus CC700, Aria CC900) which seem all to be of MTM design and we are back at square one

Then you also have XTZ which is Swedish company. Check local showroom.

XTZ Spirit 8 center speaker - XTZ Sound in Balance

With enormous power and dynamics, the Spirit 8 center speaker is capable to reproduce voices in a natural and accurate way.

www.xtzsound.eu

XTZ Spirit 4 compact speaker - XTZ Sound in Balance

XTZ Spirit 4 compact speaker. With customized drivers the Spirit 4 plays with astonishing deep bass qualities and a fine and precise treble.

www.xtzsound.eu

XTZ Spirit 2 wallspeaker - XTZ Sound in Balance

Despite the small dimensione, the Spirit 2 is able to perform a natural and very precise soundstage with a dry and fast bass.

www.xtzsound.eu

Yes really familiar with XTZ , I actually have a XTZ 12.17 spirit in my livingroom already that I have bought earlier.
For the home theater I'm planning the XTZ 12.17 Edge as the subwoofer as well as maybe going with the S2 cinema atmos speakers mounted on celing.

The rest of the spirit series do not look interesting to be honest. The cinema series sure but they are way out of budget

 

[Gasp3621]

I would be lying to myself if I would say that bookshelf speakers would be OK as fronts... even if its technically the truth there is something with having tower speakers.
Honestly I'm not 100% sure about our use cases outside of movie watching so there might be scenarios where towers might assist with more SPL from stereo playback etc or something like this.

TLDR: Buy once cry once and go with towers?



Yes I need to hear them before ordering but this seems not possible*.
I sent one dealer an email yesterday regarding the KEF's (email thread where I already asked about the boreas & emotivas earlier) and If they can be demoed and what they think about them and I got a reply that just said they recommend the boreas or emotivas instead of KEF for HT use and that KEF is better for music and that they dont have any KEF's for demoing... (they have all of the models for sale).

* Will keep emailing different retailers nearby, one I already got an answer that they have only the kef ls50 wireless for demo but this is a totally different beast

I get so mixed messages by everybody and unsure who is biased (most likely the dealers?). Im just trying to understand why would he not recommend the KEF's for HT. Soundsignature aside: my observation(from a novice perspective, let me know your thoughts on this):

• The KEF's seem like a very good choice due to their tweeter/mid design and having this in the center channel as the base of your HT (since everywhere I read the center channel is the most important channel right??). saw Erins audio corner's video "The Problem with Most Center Channel Speakers" which convinced me atleast that MTM designs are bad. Or am I overthinking the whole MTM vs non-MTM design here?
• Or is the issue with the rest of the speakers? Like are the tower speakers "wrong choice" for HT or something... maybe their passive radiator design or what am I missing here? Everybody on the internet is mostly positive on the Q-series so I just want to understand both the pros and cons of everything I'm looking at since this is HT project an expensive-project so I dont want to leave no stone unturned.

Honestly I like the white ones (so the "cheap" Q750's are so tempting... I'm afraid the offer will expire soon.) but here is my nitpicky reasoning behind going black: no white surface reflections from tv/projector(if in future) but perhaps this is not really an issue in a 100% dark room?


If going KEF Q650C is certain, the size is not an issue since everything (furniture/room layout etc) will be bought/built according to speaker specs.


The Focals you listed seem really expensive here and i cant find chora 800 here, only some other cheaper focal centers(Chora center, Chorus CC700, Aria CC900) which seem all to be of MTM design and we are back at square one


Yes really familiar with XTZ , I actually have a XTZ 12.17 spirit in my livingroom already that I have bought earlier.
For the home theater I'm planning the XTZ 12.17 Edge as the subwoofer as well as maybe going with the S2 cinema atmos speakers mounted on celing.

The rest of the spirit series do not look interesting to be honest. The cinema series sure but they are way out of budget

Yes for sure then go with towers, there is indeed something with having big mains! There is no rear ports in the Kef floorstanders, but one should still push them little forward from front wall/corners and consider acoustic panels (1st reflection points) as you have more of dedicated room.

It sounds clearly that the shop is trying to push the brand they have in stock. This is normal. Triangle speakers seem to get decent feedback, but they are butt ugly and that small centre would put me off. You are right that the Qs would make great HT speakers as we have witnessed at AVF, AVSF, Reddit etc. over the years. Many also says they are tad brighter and more forward sounding over R serie. Should be quite at home with movies.

I actually meant the Chora Centre, not sure where i got the 800 but anyway if the listeners aren´t sitting too far away from middle seat then it shouldn´t be too big of issue. Nice to see Focal didn`t downsize their centre like many brands does. Dual 6,5" drivers! 816 towers for mains then, but if the price is too high then it´s a no go.

Focal Chora 816 - Hitta bästa pris, recensioner och produktinformation på PriceRunner Sverige

Jämför priser, läs recensioner och hitta mer information om Focal Chora 816 på PriceRunner.

www.pricerunner.se

Focal Chora Center - Hitta bästa pris, recensioner och produktinformation på PriceRunner Sverige

Jämför priser, läs recensioner och hitta mer information om Focal Chora Center på PriceRunner.

www.pricerunner.se

Send email to [email protected] and ask is there any deals coming for 1x12 Cinema as you are considering it and 12.17 Edge. He might be able to give you some discount. There is 200€ difference and if it drops lower then i would choose the Cinema sub as it has better and larger cabinet/port design, beefier driver. In some cases 12.17 Edge has put out some port noise when you push it loud as you have to run it in 1port mode (right bung in, left open) with EQ to REF. The other modes aren´t much of use, unless sealed is prefered.

 

[Gasp3621]

Oh i forgot to say if you have space and could spend little more for the sub then order Monoprice 12 THX right away! There is great deal going for it. It´s fairly large box, but will also have noticeable performance edge over both XTZs. Comparable model would be SVS PB2000 Pro at 1270€ (13 390sek), so 850€ is superb deal (XTZ Cinema 900€)!!!

Monolith 12in THX Ultra Certified 500-Watt Powered Subwoofer | EU plug

The Monolith™ THX® certified subwoofer sets the standard for bass output, low distortion, and affordability. With chest thumping bass that plays down to well under 20Hz, the Monolith subwoofer unleashes cinema level volume, with the ability to convey and articulate the subtle nuances of music...

www.monoprice.eu

PS. With the speakers and av-receiver try to buy them from one shop. Ask "package deal". Do not pay list prices! Most dealers should give you discount, the more you spend the more discount.

PS.2 another option would be the smaller 10 THX (x2) depending are going to go with one or two subs in long run.

Monolith 10in THX Select Certified 500 Watt Powered Subwoofer | EU plug

The Monolith™ THX® certified subwoofer sets the standard for bass output, low distortion, and affordability. With chest thumping bass that plays down to well under 20Hz, the Monolith subwoofer unleashes cinema level volume, with the ability to convey and articulate the subtle nuances of music...

www.monoprice.eu

 

[jon lord]

Yes for sure then go with towers, there is indeed something with having big mains! There is no rear ports in the Kef floorstanders, but one should still push them little forward from front wall/corners and consider acoustic panels (1st reflection points) as you have more of dedicated room.

KEF seems to be a no-go due to nowhere to test-listen them which is sad after calling around to retailers.

It sounds clearly that the shop is trying to push the brand they have in stock. This is normal. Triangle speakers seem to get decent feedback, but they are butt ugly and that small centre would put me off. You are right that the Qs would make great HT speakers as we have witnessed at AVF, AVSF, Reddit etc. over the years. Many also says they are tad brighter and more forward sounding over R serie. Should be quite at home with movies.

Yeah unfortunate regarding what they are trying to push.
In my book the borea towers sounded nice so I might ask for a 5.1 demo at the retailer and see how the center sounds as a whole package to decide if my center dilemma is even an issue (as mentioned I'm new with HT).
Also I might have to re-consider the SVS prime series, their center is 3way, but I think the pricing (even if the price is still less than KEF) is higher for what you get I think (due to import duties etc would be my guess) but they currently have sale untill next month so maybe they might be worth taking a look at:

- Front	SVS Prime Tower	11900 SEK = 1200€
- Center	SVS Prime Center	3990 SEK = 400€
- Surround	SVS Prime Satellite	3290 SEK= 330€
	Total:	19180 SEK= 1900€ ~

I actually meant the Chora Centre, not sure where i got the 800 but anyway if the listeners aren´t sitting too far away from middle seat then it shouldn´t be too big of issue. Nice to see Focal didn`t downsize their centre like many brands does. Dual 6,5" drivers! 816 towers for mains then, but if the price is too high then it´s a no go.

Focal Chora 816 - Hitta bästa pris, recensioner och produktinformation på PriceRunner Sverige

Jämför priser, läs recensioner och hitta mer information om Focal Chora 816 på PriceRunner.

www.pricerunner.se

Focal Chora Center - Hitta bästa pris, recensioner och produktinformation på PriceRunner Sverige

Jämför priser, läs recensioner och hitta mer information om Focal Chora Center på PriceRunner.

www.pricerunner.se

Send email to [email protected] and ask is there any deals coming for 1x12 Cinema as you are considering it and 12.17 Edge. He might be able to give you some discount. There is 200€ difference and if it drops lower then i would choose the Cinema sub as it has better and larger cabinet/port design, beefier driver. In some cases 12.17 Edge has put out some port noise when you push it loud as you have to run it in 1port mode (right bung in, left open) with EQ to REF. The other modes aren´t much of use, unless sealed is prefered.

Yeah the Focals as a whole package will brick my already bricked budget so I dont see them as an option.

Regarding XTZ: I just saw that I had written wrong price above(700 instead of 600). The "demo" unit of a 12.17 edge goes for 600€ which is a bargain (regular price 750 which is already lowered from regular 850). For this price it seems a no-brainer for me, since then I might be able to afford (and convince SO) to get one more later on for a similar price, rather than getting a 1x12 for 1000€~in the future which is quite steep. I have emailed some with mario and Im pretty confident in the 12.17 edge for my room size.

Oh i forgot to say if you have space and could spend little more for the sub then order Monoprice 12 THX right away! There is great deal going for it. It´s fairly large box, but will also have noticeable performance edge over both XTZs. Comparable model would be SVS PB2000 Pro at 1270€ (13 390sek), so 850€ is superb deal (XTZ Cinema 900€)!!!

Still leaning more to the XTZ mentioned in my answer above for most bang for my bucks and to have a larger chance obtaining a second one.
Also I read/heard(it might have been a youtube review) that the XTZ seemed to better performing tighter or something and that the monolith kicked lower ... tho It might have been to music which is not very relevant in this case perhaps.

PS. With the speakers and av-receiver try to buy them from one shop. Ask "package deal". Do not pay list prices! Most dealers should give you discount, the more you spend the more discount.

This is one of issues. Denon only has one retailer in sweden and they sell mostly Dali & B&W speakers.
From what I have briefly looked is that Dali speakers did not seem that interesting, but they might deserve a second look (also they only have MTM centers) and B&W is out of my price range. See example: Golvhögtalare - stora högtalare för bästa ljud (1000SEK is roughly 100€)

The closest to the Denon 3700 is Marantz SR6015 which is sold by all of the other retailers that sell most of the other brands of speakers, the marantz is roughly 100€ more expensive and I've already asked one retailer if its possible to make a package price with marantz and triangle 5.0 setup but it was a no-go due to the issues with getting receivers currently.

 

[Gasp3621]

KEF seems to be a no-go due to nowhere to test-listen them which is sad after calling around to retailers.


Yeah unfortunate regarding what they are trying to push.
In my book the borea towers sounded nice so I might ask for a 5.1 demo at the retailer and see how the center sounds as a whole package to decide if my center dilemma is even an issue (as mentioned I'm new with HT).
Also I might have to re-consider the SVS prime series, their center is 3way, but I think the pricing (even if the price is still less than KEF) is higher for what you get I think (due to import duties etc would be my guess) but they currently have sale untill next month so maybe they might be worth taking a look at:

- Front	SVS Prime Tower	11900 SEK = 1200€
- Center	SVS Prime Center	3990 SEK = 400€
- Surround	SVS Prime Satellite	3290 SEK= 330€
	Total:	19180 SEK= 1900€ ~

Yeah the Focals as a whole package will brick my already bricked budget so I dont see them as an option.

Regarding XTZ: I just saw that I had written wrong price above(700 instead of 600). The "demo" unit of a 12.17 edge goes for 600€ which is a bargain (regular price 750 which is already lowered from regular 850). For this price it seems a no-brainer for me, since then I might be able to afford (and convince SO) to get one more later on for a similar price, rather than getting a 1x12 for 1000€~in the future which is quite steep. I have emailed some with mario and Im pretty confident in the 12.17 edge for my room size.


Still leaning more to the XTZ mentioned in my answer above for most bang for my bucks and to have a larger chance obtaining a second one.
Also I read/heard(it might have been a youtube review) that the XTZ seemed to better performing tighter or something and that the monolith kicked lower ... tho It might have been to music which is not very relevant in this case perhaps.


This is one of issues. Denon only has one retailer in sweden and they sell mostly Dali & B&W speakers.
From what I have briefly looked is that Dali speakers did not seem that interesting, but they might deserve a second look (also they only have MTM centers) and B&W is out of my price range. See example: Golvhögtalare - stora högtalare för bästa ljud (1000SEK is roughly 100€)

The closest to the Denon 3700 is Marantz SR6015 which is sold by all of the other retailers that sell most of the other brands of speakers, the marantz is roughly 100€ more expensive and I've already asked one retailer if its possible to make a package price with marantz and triangle 5.0 setup but it was a no-go due to the issues with getting receivers currently.

Fair enough, stick with the XTZ then as the price is so good and having the option to add 2nd later is important. Did you say you have the 12.17 Spirit now, if that is the case then use it for the time being as 2nd sub. One sub at front left and 2nd sub at right rear (or vice versa).

You could listen the Dali Oberon 5 and Oberon Vokal if you have local dealer. I would stick with Denon as there is no point paying extra for Marantz in your case. I assume the Dali dealer won´t have SVS or the Boreas either. Would have been good to listen them all side by side in same room with same receiver. Sad to hear there is no Kef dealers offering demos as they do have some benefits with the soundstage example due to coaxial drivers and that large Q650c has strong feedback. It`s not just the design, the speaker is massive with 6,5" drivers which is going to make difference too (dynamically) as it´s so active. Which ever models you can listen try to push them harder at the levels you are going to be using. It`s not easy to get full answers as the room acoustics are different and with Denons Audussey you can tweak the sound some (high frequency roll off etc).

 

[jon lord]

Got an reply today from a retailer that I asked about the KEF Q-series and basically the reply I got was:
"KEF Is for music not for HT. In your relatively small room we suggest:
LCR750 Speaker - M&K Sound® | Official Site - 1200€~
LCR750C Speaker - M&K Sound® | Official Site - 600€ ~
M40T Speaker - M&K Sound® | Official Site - 1000€
And recommended to sell my XTZ sub and get V10+ Subwoofer New product - M&K Sound® | Official Site - 1400€
"

So this would basically implode my budget if I would go with their suggestions haha. Well I will do a bit of research on them tomorrow but perhaps they are out of my budget anyway.

Also I ordered the XTZ 12.17 Edge + 2 pairs of XTZ Cinema S2 for atmos today so there is that.

Also considering to just pull the trigger and order the KEF Q750 towers home and test them with my stereo setup upstairs (rotel a12 as an amp) and see if their sound signature suits me and go either send it back/order the rest, then atleast I can say that I have listened to them before discarding them as an option.

 

[gibbsy]

Got an reply today from a retailer that I asked about the KEF Q-series and basically the reply I got was:
"KEF Is for music not for HT. In your relatively small room we suggest:

Total sales talk trying to get you to spend more money. It's your money, you are in charge and it's you that decides what you want to audition. If the Q Series was just for music then why have KEF bothered with two different sized centres.

Look for another dealer.

 

[Gasp3621]

Got an reply today from a retailer that I asked about the KEF Q-series and basically the reply I got was:
"KEF Is for music not for HT. In your relatively small room we suggest:
LCR750 Speaker - M&K Sound® | Official Site - 1200€~
LCR750C Speaker - M&K Sound® | Official Site - 600€ ~
M40T Speaker - M&K Sound® | Official Site - 1000€
And recommended to sell my XTZ sub and get V10+ Subwoofer New product - M&K Sound® | Official Site - 1400€
"

So this would basically implode my budget if I would go with their suggestions haha. Well I will do a bit of research on them tomorrow but perhaps they are out of my budget anyway.

Also I ordered the XTZ 12.17 Edge + 2 pairs of XTZ Cinema S2 for atmos today so there is that.

Also considering to just pull the trigger and order the KEF Q750 towers home and test them with my stereo setup upstairs (rotel a12 as an amp) and see if their sound signature suits me and go either send it back/order the rest, then atleast I can say that I have listened to them before discarding them as an option.

Yep as Gibbsy mentioned that was sale talk. Order the speakers and try em if they on sale (white ones)! The Q550 would still work fine in the smaller HT room if you fancy the black finish. Think carefully so no buyers remorse later.