First Go at Dirac Live - Is My Response Normal?

Hear Here

Active Member
For stereo music and 2.1 or 2.2 Dirac recommend pointing the mic to the speakers, that is 90 degrees from vertical, as do Minidsp in all of their Dirac incarnations.

Pps, Arcam provide two calibration files for their mic, one for vertical and one at 90 degrees.

Now I think you're wong here, but it may be me who's wrong!

As I understand it the "normal"calibrsation table is used when the microphone is pointed FORWARD towards the speakers and the 90 degree table should be used when the mic is pointed UPWARDS towards the ceiling.

Does anyone have a definitive answer. Thanks.

Thanks
 

Paul7777x

Member
Now I think you're wong here, but it may be me who's wrong!

As I understand it the "normal"calibrsation table is used when the microphone is pointed FORWARD towards the speakers and the 90 degree table should be used when the mic is pointed UPWARDS towards the ceiling.

Does anyone have a definitive answer. Thanks.

Thanks

You’re right.

‘Normal’ is straight at the speakers and the 90 degree calibration is at the ceiling. My bad.

That is for the UMIK-1. It may or may not be the same for other calibrated microphones. It will no doubt say so in the included instructions.
 

mrrodge

Active Member
You’re right.

‘Normal’ is straight at the speakers and the 90 degree calibration is at the ceiling. My bad.

That is for the UMIK-1. It may or may not be the same for other calibrated microphones. It will no doubt say so in the included instructions.

But Arcam only provide one calibration file for their mic; I don't know if this is meant to be horizontal or vertical; I've done mine vertical. I'm no sound engineer but looking at the openings on the end of the mic I can't imagine it making a huge difference. It has holes all the way around and the end of the mic is at the same point in space at each measurement whether it's held horizontally or vertically.

EDIT: I've just read this and it describes Lexicon mics, which I think must be the same ones Arcam have enclosed (are they the same company?). Page 15 of the PDF I've linked also says to point the mic upwards so I'm thinking mine was done right and the Arcam mic should be pointed upwards.

There you’ll find a pair of mic files and curves too. I’ve no idea how useful the curves are, I didn’t try them.

But they are worth a shot if only to calibtprate your ears to a couple of different curves so you can get a better idea of what the graphs mean in reality.

I'd missed those; thanks. The zip file contains a few but they look generic to the surround sound receivers as well (they refer to heights and subs) so looking at it there's only one for me to try (they call it 'default Harman'). Struggling for time so will try with the measurements I already did.

I'd seen the term 'Harman' thrown around quite a bit so looked it up and realised it's a curve to make headphones sound like neutral speakers. With this in mind, how is that any different to the default Dirac suggested line? Isn't that to make your speakers transparent? Or is it the same curve as you'd apply to headphones? Surely that's wrong?

EDIT: Looked at the default Harman curve and it's not a million miles off the default Dirac suggestion, except for the high end roll off.
 
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RBZ5416

Distinguished Member
Arcam only provide one calibration file for their mic; I don't know if this is meant to be horizontal or vertical.
As you correctly say, only one cal file per mic type, which is indeed intened for 90° multi-channel. Further evidence that the SR250 is just a stripped down AVR & not the dedicated stereo product often cited.
 

mrrodge

Active Member
Spent a couple hours last night listening before making any changes... Definitely not right yet, couldn't warm to it. Don't think it's the lack of bass though.
 

The Sound Counsel

Well-known Member
AVForums Sponsor
Well, my mind seem s to be going off at pace...

It wasn’t the HK curve I used it was this one.

View attachment 1419744
Using a curve like the one mentioned here should bring much better results. You have a pretty decent sounding room apart from the bass, it looks like the speakers may be too close to the wall (side or back) possibly. The default curve served up by DIRAC doesn't sound great to me and it is really there as a starting point.

Dan
 

mrrodge

Active Member
Using a curve like the one mentioned here should bring much better results. You have a pretty decent sounding room apart from the bass, it looks like the speakers may be too close to the wall (side or back) possibly. The default curve served up by DIRAC doesn't sound great to me and it is really there as a starting point.

Dan

Will definitely try it when I have an hour to spare. Yup, as I said in the OP they're too close to the wall and one is actually in a corner, I can't get around that unfortunately, which partly influenced my choice of the 926 and a Dirac supported amp.

Are there some set numbers I can plug in to try that curve or is it just a case of dragging mine so it looks something like it?
 
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mrrodge

Active Member
Now wondering if I have a fault with my Sr250 - Dirac Live app crashes, throws 1003 errors, won't let me control the gain on the Sr250 and tells me the receiver is misbehaving. Can't reconfigure! Tried everything, reinstalled the software etc. The only thing I haven't tried is resetting the SR250 but if I do that and it doesn't work I won't be able to set up again!
 

Hear Here

Active Member
I've just done a couple more Dirac measurements with my NAD M33. Results are better than previous pre-software updates attempts and I doubt I'll get better without a more accurate individually calibrated microphone.

However, although the resultant filter is doubtless more accurate, I've said before that a little of the "life" of the music is lost. I've tried to identify what the problem is and I feel the imaging is slightly less accurate than No Filter.

Listen to a solo artist, perhaps a singer, and close your eyes. You hear the position very accurately if you've picked a well recorded track, but possibly slightly less so with Dirac engaged. It also needs speakers that are good with imaging, such as my Avantgardes.

Some people don't rate imaging as highly as I do, but if you have a few minutes to do this listening test, I'd be very interested in your opinion.

I must say I've used 4 different DSP systems and Dirac is probably the best and considerably better than most. I'm still not convinced I want to engage the filter though.

Peter
 

mrrodge

Active Member
Spent hours trying to get mine to work at all - three different machines, all sorts of errors. Not working full stop now!
 

Paul7777x

Member
Spent hours trying to get mine to work at all - three different machines, all sorts of errors. Not working full stop now!

What computer are you using?

I assume it’s a W10 machine? Or a Mojave, or Catalina Mac?

I’d suggest you remove Dirac from the computer entirely, using a non windows cleaner. CCleaner or similar. Then re-download and then try again after having reset the Arcam.
 

Paul7777x

Member
I've just done a couple more Dirac measurements with my NAD M33. Results are better than previous pre-software updates attempts and I doubt I'll get better without a more accurate individually calibrated microphone.

However, although the resultant filter is doubtless more accurate, I've said before that a little of the "life" of the music is lost. I've tried to identify what the problem is and I feel the imaging is slightly less accurate than No Filter.

Listen to a solo artist, perhaps a singer, and close your eyes. You hear the position very accurately if you've picked a well recorded track, but possibly slightly less so with Dirac engaged. It also needs speakers that are good with imaging, such as my Avantgardes.

Some people don't rate imaging as highly as I do, but if you have a few minutes to do this listening test, I'd be very interested in your opinion.

I must say I've used 4 different DSP systems and Dirac is probably the best and considerably better than most. I'm still not convinced I want to engage the filter though.

Peter

I’ve always found the opposite.

Regardless of amplifier or speakers.

I find the zest is increased, mostly because the bass is sorted and is no longer smearing the vocal range.
 

mrrodge

Active Member
What computer are you using?

I assume it’s a W10 machine? Or a Mojave, or Catalina Mac?

I’d suggest you remove Dirac from the computer entirely, using a non windows cleaner. CCleaner or similar. Then re-download and then try again after having reset the Arcam.

Just done the next best thing - fresh install on completely separate machine, factory reset the Arcam. Dirac Live telling me to power cycle the receiver as it may be out of sync with Dirac, won't accept any filters (Dirac crashes at 78% and terminates) and tells me it can't control the gain on the amp to get fresh measurements. Absolute crap this.
 

RBZ5416

Distinguished Member
@mrrodge

Make sure nothing else is trying to talk to the Arcam, a tablet/phone left running Music Life for example. For some bizarre reason it can only talk to one thing at a time. If it won't connect to Dirac at at all, make sure that IP control is on in settings.
 

Paul7777x

Member
Just done the next best thing - fresh install on completely separate machine, factory reset the Arcam. Dirac Live telling me to power cycle the receiver as it may be out of sync with Dirac, won't accept any filters (Dirac crashes at 78% and terminates) and tells me it can't control the gain on the amp to get fresh measurements. Absolute crap this.

That is a massive pain sir.

Can’t help much as mine worked very time, though I didn’t have it long.

I can only suggest you use download an earlier version of Dirac (after making certain the current version is thoroughly wiped and gone).

It may be that that the Arcam is not fond of something new in the very latest versions.

Ps, also remove the internet cable connection from the Arcam and reboot it’s connection.
 

Paul7777x

Member
@mrrodge

Make sure nothing else is trying to talk to the Arcam, a tablet/phone left running Music Life for example. For some bizarre reason it can only talk to one thing at a time. If it won't connect to Dirac at at all, make sure that IP control is on in settings.

This too. Arcam are not famed for sturdy software.
 

mrrodge

Active Member
Make sure nothing else is trying to talk to the Arcam, a tablet/phone left running Music Life for example. For some bizarre reason it can only talk to one thing at a time. If it won't connect to Dirac at at all, make sure that IP control is on in settings.

Thank you so much! You're an absolute star! I just spent hours fiddling trying to get this to work. As folks probably gathered I was about to enter Arcam Tirade mode. Turns out my home automation server had discovered the receiver on the network and was polling its state every so often which seemed to pull it out of its Dirac mode, throwing all sorts of errors. Explains why it would work so far and fail at such random intervals.

I can only suggest you use download an earlier version of Dirac (after making certain the current version is thoroughly wiped and gone).

I was going to try that next. Thanks though. Always loved the folks in this place. So helpful.

I've managed to upload a new curve using the measurements I took before. There's Christmas trimmings all over the room now so figured I'd do a new set of measurements when they come down and just play with the curves for now.
 

Paul7777x

Member
That is a massive pain sir.

Can’t help much as mine worked very time, though I didn’t have it long.

I can only suggest you use download an earlier version of Dirac (after making certain the current version is thoroughly wiped and gone).

It may be that that the Arcam is not fond of something new in the very latest versions.
Thank you so much! You're an absolute star! I just spent hours fiddling trying to get this to work. As folks probably gathered I was about to enter Arcam Tirade mode. Turns out my home automation server had discovered the receiver on the network and was polling its state every so often which seemed to pull it out of its Dirac mode, throwing all sorts of errors. Explains why it would work so far and fail at such random intervals.



I was going to try that next. Thanks though. Always loved the folks in this place. So helpful.

I've managed to upload a new curve using the measurements I took before. There's Christmas trimmings all over the room now so figured I'd do a new set of measurements when they come down and just play with the curves for now.

Software is Satan’s greatest monstrosity... except when it works.
 

mrrodge

Active Member
Indeed. Believe beers are owed.
 

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