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Finding a Sub Driver?

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Building DIY' started by PGL, Dec 25, 2002.

  1. PGL

    PGL
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    Been looking to try and find a decent driver for a subwoofer in the UK. All I can come up with is either the 10" Audax PR240Z0 HDA or the 12" HT300DM from ipl acoustics. The first one doesn't have all the parameters shown on the site whilst the second doesn't have any at all and isn't listed on the Audax site. Also, can't get the search facility to work on the Audax site either!

    Wanted to spend about £100 on one but can't find anything other than the above, as import costs on a Shiva etc are ridiculous.

    Has anyone ever used these drivers, know anything else about them, or can recommend something else? I have heard rumours that the REL Q150 has got an Audax in it!

    Any ideas?

    Regards and Merry Xmas.

    Paul
     
  2. BK Electronics

    BK Electronics
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    Hi Paul

    Your right the Q150 does have an Audax driver in it, but I see you were willing use a 12" Driver, try this speaker http://www.bkelec.com/Professional/Loudspeaker Drivers/Eminence/lab12.htm

    If you follow this link http://www.prosoundweb.com/lsp/
    you will see it is used in a folded horn that is capable of high output levels, but is is quite capable in sealed or ported enclosure

    BK are shut until the new year so you have plenty of time to research this speaker, also if you ask them they can supply the Audax 10", the Peerless XLS 10" and the 10" Vifa used in the Strata at reasonable costs.

    Good luck
     
  3. rob_w

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    Received this info from the UK adire distributer:

    ADIRE AUDIO UK price list effective 27 November 2002. All prices inc. of VAT. Design3DW3 will endeavour to keep prices stable, but reserve the right to adjust prices as necessitated by fluctuations of the USD:GBP rate and changes in delivery charges whether international or local.

    SHIVA is a stock item from Dec.9, allow 7 days for delivery.

    All other drivers are special order and will be on 14 day delivery where the manufacturer has stock, otherwise 28 days.

    SHIVA Mk3 subwoofer £129 Delivery* (pair) £16.78

    TEMPEST 15" subwoofer £175 Delivery* (pair) £33.45 £20.85 (single)

    BRAHMA 10" woofer £375 Delivery* (pair) £33.45 £20.85 (single)

    BRAHMA 12" subwoofer £399 Delivery* (pair) £33.45 £20.85 (single)

    BRAHMA 15" subwoofer £425 Delivery* (pair) £33.45 £20.85 (single)

    TUMULT 15" subwoofer £459 Delivery* (pair) £33.45 £20.85 (single)

    * UK mainland exc. some parts of Scotland.

    For delivery to other EEC countries, please email hifi@design3dw3.co.uk for a quote. We expect prices to be comparable to UK prices including delivery as we will ship directly from the US to the destination country. Prices will be duty and tax paid.

    On receiving your packages, when signing the delivery note please add GOODS NOT INSPECTED. Retain all packaging in case of returns until you are satisfied that the goods are undamaged in transit and in working order.

    For warranty details, see www.adireaudio.com <http://www.adireaudio.com> whilst contacting Design3DW3 in the first instance jc@design3dw3.co.uk . Your statutory rights are not affected.

    Where payment is by cheque, an invoice will be issued on receipt of the cheque as proof of purchase.

    Sincerely,

    John Choong

    jc@design3dw3.co.uk






    hth

    Rob
     
  4. BK Electronics

    BK Electronics
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    just a thought, but if you use the BSBL12-100 plus a BSBP 100 and a 50 Litre enclosure you have the equivelent ofa Q100E
     
  5. rob_w

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  6. PGL

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    Thanks for your replies. Regarding the above price list, I can get an Adire Shiva MkIII cheaper from the Adire dealer in Germany, including delivery and VAT!!

    How's that work then?

    Rip off Britain!!
     
  7. PGL

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    Dan, that BK driver looks a bit cheap to be in an REL? Is this a similar driver or the SAME driver that's in the Q100? How do you know?

    Regards and Happy New Year to all.

    Paul
     
  8. BK Electronics

    BK Electronics
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    110% sure that it is exactly the same driver as used in the Q100E.
     
  9. Dubbing Mixer

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    You might want to do a search on 'VOLT' Their drivers are used in several of the 'top' subs including some PMC examples and I'm pretty sure they have something in your price range.
     
  10. micb3rd

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    Surely the BSB subwoofer and the REL subwoofer would be slightly different because the REL amps usualy use EQ/Bass Boost for the low end where as the BSB100 is flat.
     
  11. BK Electronics

    BK Electronics
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    The Q100E has never used eq it may have had a slam depth switch that allowed the upper roll off to go from 120 to 240Hz but this should not be confused with eq

    Remember also that BK Electronics manufactured the Rels up until a few years ago.
     
  12. mike.hutch

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    Dan, that Eminence lab12 looks very interesting, any idea of the cost?

    :)
     
  13. BK Electronics

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  14. mike.hutch

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    Doh! I was looking all over the site for a price and there it was right in the front of my face! Sorry about that.


    Anyway, not cheap are they at £127?

    I quite fancy having a go at the loaded horn enclosure but I'm not sure my room is big enough to make full use of it. I have some experience with building horn enclosures for large PA systems and they tend to work better in big spaces.

    I put the T/S parameters of the LAB12 into Bassbox and it plot up very well for a simple ported design - flat down to below 30hz.

    I can't see a power rating on the site anywhere either, or I'm I just being blind again?
     
  15. BK Electronics

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    The power rating is 400 Watts I dont know why the specs missed this off, i think they were ignoring the power rating due to it being almost indistructable when 2 are oaded into that horn enclosure
     
  16. RichardH

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    Going back to the Q100E-a-like - I assume the 50 litres is after the amp is in place - i.e. cabinet volume will be greater. Do we know how tightly the enclosure is stuffed, etc?
    Running that drive unit through a modelling program certainly doesn't suggest it would be anything special, as it seems to roll off pretty early.

    Looks an interesting idea. Almost tempting to use a BSB200 unit to run a pair of the drive units - the drive units and the enclosures are minimal cost, really.

    Looks like I have a new project.:eek:
     
  17. mike.hutch

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    Are you talking about the LAB12? I've run it through Bassbox and using 2 drivers in a dual isobaric configuration it goes down to 25hz at 0db and is flat up to around 230hz.

    I reckon that's pretty good.

    :)
     
  18. RichardH

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    No, the BSBL12-100. I did speak to them a while ago about this driver, and they reckon it does well in a small enclosure, also with a passive radiator.
    Isobarik with those lab12 drivers is getting a bit pricy, but it sounds a bit tasty....
     
  19. mike.hutch

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    Ah, sorry I misread your post, I see what you mean, I put the details of the BSB sub into Bassbox and it is pretty average looking.

    Interestingly though, after a bit of playing around, I've got the LAB12 giving a flat response fron 25hz to 220hz using just one driver in a simple ported enclosure. Problem is the enclosure is quite big.


    :)
     
  20. RichardH

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    I guess that's where the old Isobarik comes in....
     
  21. RichardH

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    More thoughts....
    Has anyone used the BK mosfet sub amps - the OMP ones - rather than the plate amps with crossover? If I'm running this sub strictly for HT, my processor (HCPC in my case, using the Delta 410) should handle all the crossover stuff. Shouldn't it? Or is it worth getting the plate amp just for the reduced hassle....
     
  22. mike.hutch

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    Those mosfet amps have been around for years without any updating, as far as know, and are really aimed at disco/small PA use. I would stick with the BSB one's personally, although I have never used either, so someone may know different.


    :)
     
  23. BK Electronics

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    The modules have been around for years because they are so reliable, yes they are aimed at the disco market but they have been reviewed in an American DIY HiFi magazine with favourable results.

    The circuit is a derivitive of the Hitachi circuit it uses an LED as a reference voltage, as this works in forward bias it intoduces less noise into the circuit than the original zener diode that works reverse biased and in zener breakdown ( Noisey Mode). The mosfets are not cheap switching fets these are D type laterals the audiophile type.

    Ideal amplifiers for inexpensive simple amplification.
     
  24. Ramius

    Ramius
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    Hi.

    I'm using the MF300 with great results.
    The modules spec out better than the plate amps
    Unless you really need/want the high level connection I don't think you can go wrong with the modules. I've had no problems. The £££s you save almost pays for your sub driver.

    BK also sell a simple pot (£3 or something) which will reduce the input to the amp module if you haven't enough control from your receiver.


    The LAB12 looks good to me in something like 110 litres tuned to 19Hz.

    The problem you'll find with using an isobaric configuration to reduce enclosure size is that it becomes too small to fit an adequate port inside (for a sub of type- 4" flared minimum). You could use PRs but then that's more £££ and supposedly poorer transient response.

    I think £127 is a good price. Okay is not as cheap here as in the US but if a driver of this calibre was tarted up with decals and chrome and placed in the car audio market I'm sure it would be 3-4 times more expensive.

    A sub based around a driver like this or a Shiva (and all its clones) will be a top performer.

    Cheers
    Boris.
     
  25. RichardH

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    Thanks for that, Ramius. Did you do anything clever with switching on/off to avoid turn on thumps, or any speaker protection?
    As you say, a trim pot should do the job to match sound levels if need be.
    I don't think I'll go Isobarik anyway - more complications than I need. I may well build the amp into a seperate box, then the actual sub box will be simpler, and if I get a beefy enough amp, I can power two boxes should the urge take me - just have to disguise them as furniture :D
     
  26. Ramius

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    Hi

    My amp is separate from the sub. I haven't even made a box for it. It's just sat on it's end vertically in the corner behind my sub out of site.

    I've never experienced any turn-on thump.
    All I did was extend the power lead, wire a plug on the end and plug it straight into a wall socket. The switch on the wall socket turns the sub on + off.

    The only speaker protection my Shiva has is a low tuning of 18Hz.
    I've recently moved house. My old room was a fair bit larger than my current one.
    In the old room the sub would only bottom out on very demanding bass heavy scenes, Attack of the Clones opening explosion for example (watching at 8dB below reference). In my new room due to its smaller size the sub can be calibrated to reference with a lot less gain. No problems now. :)
    Anyway, there's nothing like a bit a bottoming out to show you how much subwoofing is truly needed to recreate these latest demanding soundtracks cleanly. :eek:

    Cheers
    Boris
     
  27. RichardH

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    :eek:
    I assume you don't have pets or kids to poke around at it...

    Good to hear that you don't NEED the extra protection etc. I might get a bit fancy and have a relay to switch the sub on when I fire the PC up - WAF and all that. As a matter of interest, what size box did you shove your Shiva into - is it ported or closed? IIRC, they have a couple of alignments on the web site - did you follow one of them?
     
  28. mike.hutch

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    This is all very interesting, I only have small room and I'm after something that goes low, but not necessarily that loud, I've looked at 15's but the enclosure would take up too much room and I find 15's tend to be at there best when played loud.

    I think a LAB12 in a reasonably sensible ported box coupled to an MF300 amp would be just the job, although why I am looking a subwoofers now when my HC room is still a garage full of junk is another matter altogether...

    :D
     
  29. Ramius

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    Yep, no kids or pets. :)

    It's vented, the EBS alignment, 142.5 litres tuned to 18.1Hz.
    I modified the design slightly. I didn't bother with the feet and made it forward firing.


    There's nothing wrong with thorough planning. :)

    Cheers
    Boris
     
  30. mike.hutch

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    hmmm, I've just been reading about the Shiva driver, in short - it looks awesome, not to look at but it's spec. It seems I can't get one in the UK, so what's the best place to import, and is it expensive to import something like that?

    :)
     

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