Find if the speaker is too poweful for Amp

arunmc

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Hi all,

I am new this forum and need help to confirm if the speaker I chose to upgrade will match my current amplifer setup. Trying to keep simple but reading over confused me o_O.

I have a Onkyo HT-S5500 package (with HT-R590). I want to upgrade the front two speakers (FL & FR) and may be the center speaker later. Have choosen a speaker which is offerdabe in price and locally made, but couldn't confirm if I may face any issues now or in the future.

After reading lot of youtube videos and reading article I got really confused.
  1. As the setup contains other speaker with max imput of 130 W - 6 Ohms, will replacing two speakers may cause issues?
  2. Some say the the amplifier should provide 1.5 to 2 time the power of speaker. The Amp states that it can give 130w-6 Ohms or 100W-8 Ohm. But the speaker recomendation is 60 - 125 W, where 125 W- 8 Ohm is higher than 100 W.
  3. In another forum, I read the amp should provide atleast 60% to 110% of the peak power rating of the speaker. Less than 60% can cause damage and higher will not. In this case 125 W* 0.60 = 75 W and 125 W * 1.1 = 137.5 W (ref Recommended Amplifier Power).
  4. Based on speaker spec, calculated RMS of speaker is 125 W * 0.707 = 88.37 W. The acutal RMS of the amplifier is unkonwn except different numbers in all frequencys. Based on the first 5 license in amp spec, I assume its 80 W 8 Ohms and I am not sure.
Specs for ref:
My Amp spec:

Rated Output Power
All channels: (North American)
80 watts minimum continuous power per
channel, 8 ohm loads, 2 channels driven
from 20 Hz to 20 kHz, with a maximum
total harmonic distortion of 0.7% (FTC)
130 watts minimum continuous power
per channel, 6 ohm loads, 1 channel
driven at 1 kHz, with a maximum total
harmonic distortion of 1% (FTC)
(Others)​
1 ch × 130 W at 6 ohms, 1 kHz, 1 ch driven
of 1 % (IEC)
Maximum Effective Output Power
(Asian)​
1 ch × 160 W at 6 ohms, 1 kHz, 1 ch driven (JEITA)​
Dynamic Power*
* IEC60268-Short-term maximum output power​
180 W (3 Ω, Front)​
160 W (4 Ω, Front)​
100 W (8 Ω, Front)
THD+N (Total Harmonic Distortion+Noise)
0.08% (20 Hz - 20 kHz, half power)​
Damping Factor 60 (Front, 1 kHz, 8 Ω)
Input Sensitivity and Impedance (Unbalance)
200 mV/47 kΩ (LINE)​
Rated RCA Output Level and Impedance
200 mV/2.2 kΩ (REC OUT)​
Maximum RCA Output Level and Impedance
2 V/2.2 kΩ (REC OUT)​
Frequency Response 20 Hz - 50 kHz/+1 dB, -3 dB (DSP bypass)
Tone Control Characteristics
±10 dB, 50 Hz (BASS)​
±10 dB, 20 kHz (TREBLE)​
Signal to Noise Ratio 100 dB (LINE, IHF-A)
Speaker Impedance 6 Ω - 16 Ω

My Speaker Specifications:
TRANSDUCER COMPLEMENTS: HF1 x 1" dome tweeter
TRANSDUCER COMPLEMENTS: MF1 x 5" midrange
TRANSDUCER COMPLEMENTS: LF2 x 5" woofer
RECOMMENDED AMPLIFIER POWER60 - 125 W
NOMINAL IMPEDANCE8 Ohm
SENSITIVITY (1 w 1m)90 dB
FREQUENCY RESPONSE (-3 dB) on axis60 Hz ~ 20 kHz
FREQUENCY EXTENSION (-10 dB)42 Hz ~ 22 kHz
CROSSOVER FREQUENCY930 Hz, 3.2 kHz

Please help me confirm if this is a good match or have to look for lesser power floor standing speakers.
 
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You are reading far too much into the figures given. It's pretty easy really. For the speakers you need to look at these figures, the ohm loading 8 ohm, the sensitivity 90dB. If the amps puts out 100 watts into 8 ohms then it will be able to drive the speakers.

How good they sound and how well they will match up is really down to you and your ears.
 
Thank you !! Am worried that, amp 100 W@8 Ohms is a dynamic short burst and can hardly have 80 W@8 Ohms. Connecting an higher peak watts like 125 W should not damage either equipment and should be better than already connected speakers.

My current connected speakers has only specification of 130W@6 Ohms maximum. Mixing these two speakers with already connected speakers should not cause issues too.
 
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The wattage of the speakers is not really a concern but the impedance rating is. Look for 6-8 ohm speakers rated up to 150w with decent efficiency of say 88 dB/metre and above.
If the impedance is lower or the efficiency is lower than 85 dB/metre the amp will struggle.
The amp is designed as a surround sound unit so is designed to be used with multiple speakers.
 
Although your AV System was sold as a bundle, the AV Receiver is basically the TX-SR494 (here in the UK) which tells you it's an atypical traditional budget end AV Receiver and certainly has enough power to drive many types of speakers.

So, I would say, so long you are not looking to upgrade those front to a pair of Reference speakers and run them at full capacity, then you should be fine if you use common sense

I'd ask, what speakers are you looking to upgrade to and will this also include the centre as I would recommend you doing that if you are upgrading the front stereo pair

To give you an idea of speakers, I'd be quite comfortable connecting Monitor Audio Bronze to the Onkyo AV Receiver you already own which should give you a good guild of where you should also be looking at as a maximum to ensure you have enough headroom when listening at traditional levels (comfortable living room cinema levels)
 
Although your AV System was sold as a bundle, the AV Receiver is basically the TX-SR494 (here in the UK) which tells you it's an atypical traditional budget end AV Receiver and certainly has enough power to drive many types of speakers.

So, I would say, so long you are not looking to upgrade those front to a pair of Reference speakers and run them at full capacity, then you should be fine if you use common sense

I'd ask, what speakers are you looking to upgrade to and will this also include the centre as I would recommend you doing that if you are upgrading the front stereo pair

To give you an idea of speakers, I'd be quite comfortable connecting Monitor Audio Bronze to the Onkyo AV Receiver you already own which should give you a good guild of where you should also be looking at as a maximum to ensure you have enough headroom when listening at traditional levels (comfortable living room cinema levels)
Thanks! I believe I should be ok based on your comments.

I am trying to upgrade only the front two speakers. May be in a year center speakers too from the same brand.

Not a cinima level with aquestinc teatmed, etc. Just want a better expericen that the current setup for watching Netflix without spending too much.

Hope, accidental extreme volume knob postitions wont blow/burn thing.
 
Something you should understand. Let's take a speaker with a Sensitivity Rating of 90db. That is pretty loud - 90db. I think that is on the threshold were, in an industrial setting, you would be required to have hearing protection. But those speaker reach that level with ONLY 1 WATT OF POWER.

Most of the time, whether Music or Movies, the average power is from a Fraction of a Watt up to about 2w. Peaks are jumping higher, but the average power - no so much.

The Speaker Power Rating is about a functional limit for the speaker. Above that rated power, you risk damaging the speaker. Notice - not will damage - but - risk damage.

Amplifier Power is about the maximum Voltage that is available to the Power Section with which to generate Power. I think a Typical 100w and has about a ±45v Power Supply. How much current the Power Supply can deliver also matters. A given Power Supply might be able to deliver 45v of transient voltage but not be able to sustain that at high current levels. In other word, the Power Supply will sag.

Many people will functionally over-rate their amp by 50%, meaning they will push a 100w speaker with 150w of power. But in doing that, you have to understand your equipment and its limits, and stay within those limits. Which really is not that hard to do if you are a sane person.

I've been using 60w speakers on 100w/ch and 120w/ch Amps for many years without a problem. Again, it is about understanding the limits of your equipment.

Conversely, I've used my 200w rated speakers with a basic 50w/ch amp with spectacular results.

Conclusion, it is all good.

When looking at speakers, avoid 4 ohm speakers, but 6 ohm and 8 ohm are OK. Remember that in an AV system, each speaker has its own amp. Get speakers you like that are reasonable in the size relative to the room you have. Beyond that there isn't much to be concerned about.

Also, never push the speaker against the wall behind. That will not be good for the overall sound. Bookshelf need less space behind, Floorstanding need more, and how much space that is will depend on the the specific speaker. I had some speakers what were not happy with 24" behind them. My current speakers are fine with 15" behind them. So, it varies from speaker to speaker, but never up against the wall.

One thing however, when you add new Speakers, you have to run the AV Receiver Setup again, to balance the speakers relative to each other, and to the standard output levels.

Assuming you are buying commonly available speakers, I don't see that you are going to have any problem. The only real thing to consider, other than what you like, is don't get 4 ohm speakers.

Steve/Bluewizard
 
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Speakers are fine against walls as long as EQ is used to tame the bass peaks. Genelec actually recommends their speakers be placed close to walls with a maximum distance from the wall to minimise SBIR.
 
Speakers are fine against walls as long as EQ is used to tame the bass peaks. Genelec actually recommends their speakers be placed close to walls with a maximum distance from the wall to minimise SBIR.
I have to disagree, placed against the wall you have timing and interference problems that can not be fixed by EQ.

Yes you can appear to tame the bass, but with close placement, the problem is really muddy, recessed, and blurred Mid/High, and you also can not tame that with EQ.

Most people greatly misjudge how much space they can actually give their speakers. In my case, my Equipment/TV Stand is about 8" forward of the wall, and my speakers are even with the Front of the Equipment TV Stand. It presents a very uniform front face to the room, and this is a 16ftx16ft room (4.9mx4.9m). That placement give me about 14" to 16" (35.6cm to 40cm) behind the speaker (from the back of the speaker to the wall).

Now I am not the Lord and Master of Stereo Systems. Place you speaker anywhere you want, EQ them any way you want, just be prepared to live with the results.

My suggestion is always to place the speaker 1m to 1.5m into the room, which is an absurd distance for most people. But listen to them, then move them back a bit and listen again. Keep doing this until you find a compromise between Clarity and Practical Placement.

But... depending on the speakers, speakers need Room to Breath.
 
I have to disagree, placed against the wall you have timing and interference problems that can not be fixed by EQ.

Yes you can appear to tame the bass, but with close placement, the problem is really muddy, recessed, and blurred Mid/High, and you also can not tame that with EQ.

Most people greatly misjudge how much space they can actually give their speakers. In my case, my Equipment/TV Stand is about 8" forward of the wall, and my speakers are even with the Front of the Equipment TV Stand. It presents a very uniform front face to the room, and this is a 16ftx16ft room (4.9mx4.9m). That placement give me about 14" to 16" (35.6cm to 40cm) behind the speaker (from the back of the speaker to the wall).

Now I am not the Lord and Master of Stereo Systems. Place you speaker anywhere you want, EQ them any way you want, just be prepared to live with the results.

My suggestion is always to place the speaker 1m to 1.5m into the room, which is an absurd distance for most people. But listen to them, then move them back a bit and listen again. Keep doing this until you find a compromise between Clarity and Practical Placement.

But... depending on the speakers, speakers need Room to Breath.
Sorry but you are mistaken. SBIR interference is increased the further a monitor is placed from a wall, the most ideal situation being a monitor flush mounted in the wall. Of course at large distances like you say, 1.5 to 2m would cause less problems, but this is pretty much impossible and impractical for most people in most situations. The next best is placed as closely to the rear wall as possible. Placement to the wall will not affect mids/highs, they are not radiated backwards. Speakers do not radiate omnidirectionally at all frequencies, only lower frequencies. Only bass, usually below around 500hz, which will be reflected backwards. Close proximity to walls reduces the interference between reflected waves, the further you get away from the wall the greater the interferences, until a larger distance where they are minimised again.
 

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