Finally taking the plunge !

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by IWC Dopplel, Feb 9, 2009.

  1. IWC Dopplel

    IWC Dopplel
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    I have decided enough is enough and will just plain order a BR player :smashin:

    I have considered the 3800/LX91 but I just can't justify the money knowing that in 6 months time they will be £700 in Superfi, another 6m they will be worth £350 secondhand...

    It's the heartache of seeing my old PJ that cost heaps 5 years ago and no one wants, a Toshiba SD900E that was over £1k and is worth nearer £50 now.....

    So...

    I am going to buy one of the following :

    Panny BD35, Sammy 1500, Sony 350

    I will run digital out and only play DTS/DD and miss the BR sound in the short term. Simply because the analogue out will dissapoint I am sure unless I get something of the 3800 quality (plus the AV8 has a very good processor and to skip and hope a higher bit rate track through a £400 machine processing will be better I serioously doubt, plus bass management is an issue)

    I am moving towards the Sammy as it DTS re encodes, am I mad with my thinking :rolleyes:

    I will probably buy the Oppo 83 when it comes out and hope my Sonus Faber sub with 35-70HZ cut off doesn't ruin things
     
  2. kingfats

    kingfats
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    Worth considering for it's optical performance :smashin: or maybe the Samsung 2500 for better DVD as well.
    All the best.
     
  3. Ian_S

    Ian_S
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    From reading the Oppo thread elsewhere, in between the banal rubbish that is most of that thread, was a comment that there will not be any hugely flexible bass management on the Oppo... So, either your speakers work with the fixed crossover, or you go large, and distance configuration is relative...

    See here.

    Which is a real bummer as it's the only reasonably priced player on the horizon with DVD-A and SACD support. :(

    So you may need to think hard on the Oppo front if analogue is a major requirement.
     
  4. HD Elvis

    HD Elvis
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    You can pick up a panny 35 for around £160 now. It does seem to be the budget player of choice for a lot of forum users in the same boat as you. Maybe not so hot with the SD p.q but I see you have a 983 so doubt that will worry you!:smashin:
     
  5. IWC Dopplel

    IWC Dopplel
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    I wonder how the BD35 will compare in PQ and digital out on BR to the Sammy.

    I can see no direct comparison, but it would seem that the 35 might win on pq ? and possibly the sammy using DTS re encode ?

    :confused:

    Also the Pioneer 51 at £335 is not a huge hike up, again probably only use digital out. This player has been recommended worth the extra in my scenario ?
     
  6. HD Elvis

    HD Elvis
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    If your budget can stretch, with your setup I would go for the 51. I've seen the 51 cheaper than £335 too:smashin: Just my opinion though.
     
  7. kingfats

    kingfats
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    Blu-ray PQ similiar :smashin: optical out better on the Samsung.
    All the best.
     
  8. IWC Dopplel

    IWC Dopplel
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    Half my problem is I havent really got a budget in mind :cool: It's more a value for money thing. Is the Pioneer PQ better than the 35 or 1500 ?
     
  9. AndrewH13

    AndrewH13
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    Exact same boat as you, having just bought a TV, I cant afford the Denon 3800 I really want for its analogue performance. Ive nearly bought the Pioneer 51, then I think lets wait and see what the Oppo offers. Then I think I will run digital out for now (like you) and keep the room correction I have with my Tag AV processor. And then as an interim measure, how about £129 for the Logic 1000 with analogue outs:rotfl: - wonder just how poor it is? Could then save up for the (by then) updated Denon!

    So its cheapy now, better Pioneer or Oppo, or Denon 3800, mmmmm.
    In the meantime, still loaning DVDs from Lovefilm when they could be Blu-rays:eek:
     
  10. HD Elvis

    HD Elvis
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    For what its worth What Hi Fi call it the best budget player around at the minute with a 5 star rating:thumbsup:
     
  11. Ian_S

    Ian_S
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    IWC, the reason I think the Pioneer is good for you is that with a Lumagen, it'll feed it source direct, and the Pioneer's are the only players at present that do this.

    The firmware update coming will provide full HD decoding over analogue, and whilst the 51/71 may not have the mega power supplies and build quality of the LX91 and 3800BD, they are at least using decent spec components and will give you a good idea of what to expect when you take the plunge on an expensive player.

    Feature wise (ignoring BD-Live) they are a step above most of the other players and offer a fair bit of flexibility. I think they might even be mixing HD audio with PiP, which if so is also a step forward.

    At around £320, the 51FD is a good solid buy, and I would have thought will be quite easy to sell on post DTS-HD upgrade. The DVD performance is not too shabby either. Pioneer provide good support and regular updates, so there is little at the price IMO not to like. At only double the price of the S350, it's easy to see what the extra gets you and it feels like good value.
     
  12. IWC Dopplel

    IWC Dopplel
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    Thanks, Ian

    Another admission is the Lumagen has not been used yet. Got it back from Gordon after finding the reason I was getting no joy was the wrong power supply :suicide:

    Now with the latest software I am trying to try the find to play :rolleyes:

    I think I will give the Pioneer a go. Where is the cheapest place a the moment ?
     
  13. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    IWC for the video front I like the idea of source direct for SD if you are using the Lumagen (no reason not to). For audio I would use the Samsung DTS re encode feaure. So if you want to use it for SD, I would look at a modest Pioneer, if you are not using for SD I would look at Samsung for a tide me over player. I think you will be very satisfied without the 'heavy weights' atm and that these tide me overs will be great to get you going and still be impressed by. For a tide me over 'heavy weight' player I think the 5000 is a great machine as they stand atm but I suspect it won't be long before new super fast machines decend anyway and now might not be a great time to go in with both feet.
     
  14. IWC Dopplel

    IWC Dopplel
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    Nic, Tks

    I really need to see how good the Lumagen is don't I !

    I will have to feed it from the 983 and ofcourse cant feed it 480i/576i. But hopefully I will know whether the Lumagenis a keeper with a little experimentation. If I watched more TV it would be good I suspect for the Pioneer, but TBO I watch less than 2 hours of TV a week :rolleyes:

    I am guessing that the Sammy with DTS re encode is likely to be better than the Pioneer in digital out not re encoded ?

    And the Sammy is cheap !
     
  15. kingfats

    kingfats
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    Yes. :smashin:
     
  16. IWC Dopplel

    IWC Dopplel
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    Will I find the Sammy behind on BR picture quality if I had them side by side ?
     
  17. kingfats

    kingfats
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    I wouldn't have thought so no. :)
     
  18. IWC Dopplel

    IWC Dopplel
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    Okay, no more messing I'm gonna just buy the Sammy, if I don't like it in a few months I'll just sell on or pass on to a mate or something

    Robert whyte are £135 anyone dealt with them or any recommended suppliers ?
     
  19. kingfats

    kingfats
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    Check it's in stock :smashin: but they are a good company.
     
  20. IWC Dopplel

    IWC Dopplel
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    Looks like Richer sounds sell for £140 and there is a shop in Watford (10 miles from me) so probably buy it from there ? It will work out the same with postage
     
  21. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    I had no problem with RW, in fact it was very positive if bit slow BUT VERY CHEAP.

    983 480p / 576p to a Lumagen might make an excellent player as well (I prefer the Lumagen low ring scaling) to contrast with 1080p pass through (I assume you can do this on your Lumagen?).

    I don't think most of us need the latest and best player all the time. I think the more basic models will get you going in Blu ray very nicely until you have more discs and a desire to spend more. There will always be a market for cheap players like these on resale for those 'starting out' so like the PS3 losses on player will not be ££££s.

    dip your toes into the water, live with it, and see how you get on.
     
  22. Avi

    Avi
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    Sound advice. :)

    BTW have you had opportunity to evaluate the LX91 ? I have one here an the moment and would be interested in any 2:2 material you use to evaluate.

    AVI
     
  23. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    sort of holding off on all Pioneers until they sort the firmware stuff out!!
     
  24. IWC Dopplel

    IWC Dopplel
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    I am in the process of phoning around and a few thoughts :

    Buy the Pioneer 51 and see how it works withe the Lumagen for SD. Then connect it to the Pioneer 428 when I find a BR replacement for the main system (son of Denon 3800 or similar) and connect using the Lumagen (possibly) so take advantage of the upscaling on my Pioneer at a later date

    Or probably sell the Lumagen if the Oppo outperforms it or matches it. just not sure :rolleyes:

    That leaves the Sammy with potentially better sound (DTS re encode) and potentially marginally inferior picture. seems that this is still open. Some say no difference, some say the Pioneer has more depth, reviews see the Sammy as an also ran in terms of sound and PQ. Have What Hifi been unfair. It's not a Sammy thing as they love some telly's :rolleyes:

    Today I'm thinking Pioneer, yesteday i was Sammy help :confused:
     
  25. kingfats

    kingfats
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    Still undecided then mate :D what features do you need most from a player?
     
  26. Ian_S

    Ian_S
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    OK, my opinion.

    If you get the 51, and it ends up later connected to your 428, it will allow you to get 24p out of NTSC DVD's as it will pass that to the plasma which with Purecinema Advance will display that at 72Hz, and likewise with 1080p/24 output from BD. This is because of source direct. No other player currently has this. (The Panasonic BD55 would output an NTSC DVD at 1080p/24, but you're going to struggle to find one, and it'll be the most expensive option.)

    While it's in your main system, you can try the analogues with your Arcam, no they won't be the best, but they won't be the worst either, and will give you a flavour for HD audio, and will also allow you to see if source direct through your Lumagen will outperform your existing Oppo, which will be a good indicator as to whether or not the Oppo BD83 will mean the Lumagen has to go. ;)

    The Pioneer will offer more opportunity for you to experiment with setup, the Samsung will pretty much be a case of either love what it does, or lump it, as it has few options. OK, you'll lose the DTS re-encode, but you know what good DTS sounds like, and the 51 will give you a decent taste of HD audio.

    However from a just enjoying a blu-ray film point of view, I don't think you will make a huge mistake either way, and if you have analysis paralysis, then perhaps flipping a coin is the best answer. :)
     
  27. IWC Dopplel

    IWC Dopplel
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    TBH my only real concern is buying the Sammy and wishing I'd spent a little more on the Pioneer. I will probably upgrade in 12m. Every time I'm about to but the Sammy I wonder if I will miss a little PQ, black level and depth on BR. No one says the Sammy is better but a few see differences between the Pioneer and Sammy. For me the difference between my oppo 983 and my old tosh SD900E on component was like comparing my moms tele from the 70's to my pioneer ! I damn well notice differences between film replay if I forget to put the last piece of floor covering down in the Cinema room.

    It's image depth that seems to be said to come with players like the 51 and the cheaper players don't have it to the same degree. I notice differences between Leica lenses and so on. So i'm not blind :rolleyes:

    I would be delighted if the 3800 was a country mile ahead, I can then hanker after one for 12 months. I just can't help but feel I am too far down the ladder with my set up buying the 1500

    I am less concerned about the sound differences, frankly with my setup I am always drawn into the film by the soundtrack and delighted with the quality of film reproduction 9 times out of 10. Sure I would be pleased to improve things but I am no longer hankering after new amps. I might buy a pair of Sonus Faber Elekta amators for the front, but only becuase I fancy some TBO

    I would buy the 3800 if I thought it would be worth 50% of it's value in 2 years time but it won't !

    I will probably buy a pair of SF fronts for £1000+ secondhand and even though probably never sell just feel comforable that they will fetch a similar amount should I wish to. And yep it would be better spent on a 3800 today for example. But ask me the same question in 12m....

    Sorry to ramble in summary :

    BR film replay only (Lumagen might stay or go so the Pioneer could be interesting in this respect but don't think I will sell the Oppo anyhow)

    Sound is important but PQ more so. I intend to run digital in (not analogue as my sub crosses at 70hz) so the Sammy is interesting for my AV8

    The price difference is an issue but not in the context of my set up cost so far :suicide:
     
  28. kingfats

    kingfats
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    Buy the Pioneer then :smashin: it sounds like you want to. ;)
     
  29. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    Blu ray video differences are modest, DVD differences are large by comparison and are made worse because they are viewed on large screens (like yours) to get the most from the HD sources. Personally I see merits in both and I think you will like both. just dip you toe in and don't worry too much about it!
     
  30. Ian_S

    Ian_S
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    Heads or tails time I think. :D
     

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