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Final call about Panny and HDMI/DVI cards

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by Lizzard, Dec 4, 2004.

  1. Lizzard

    Lizzard
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    What is the final words about the interface cards to the Panasonic displays, will Panasonic Europe fix this problem or not? is is really important, anyone here been in contact with them?

    Anyway here is the final result to sum it up:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    DVI card TY-42TM6D supports only these signal-inputs:

    525(480)/60p -----> U.S Progressive standard
    625(576)/50p -----> EU Progressive standard
    750(720)/60p -----> U.S HDTV Progressive standard
    1125(1080)/60i ----> U.S HDTV Interlaced Standard

    Final word: The DVI card doesn't support:

    750(720)/50p ------> EU HDTV Progressive standard
    1125(1080)/50i -----> EU HDTV Interlaced standard

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    HDMI card TY-FB7HM support only these signal-inputs:

    525(480)/60p -----> U.S Progressive standard
    625(576)/50p -----> EU Progressive standard
    750(720)/60p -----> U.S HDTV Progressive standard
    1125(1080)/60i ----> U.S HDTV Interlaced Standard

    Final word: The HDMI card doesn't support:

    750(720)/50p ------> EU HDTV Progressive standard
    1125(1080)/50i -----> EU HDTV Interlaced standard

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I have not listed PC-signal resolutions into the chart, all specifications are taken from Panasonics charts, it seems that they use the same card and model number on a worldwide basis with key-focus to support the Japanese and U.S/Canada customers and neglecting the European customers and their demands.

    To sum it up, both cards only supports standard progressive 576p signal today if you are feeding it PAL signals.

    As HDCP is required for upcoming HDTV feeds from satellite and other sources i am pretty surprised that Panasonic isn't taking this more seriously.
     
  2. peezee

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    Lizzard, thanks a lot for this summary. I thought there was "some hope" the HDMI board would support 720p50 and 1080i50 formats, however since these boards aren't available in Europe yet it'll take time to know for sure (why isn't Panasonic Japan able and willing to verify these for us is a mistery to me, and rather annoying too).
    Unless I missed s'thing and the 50Hz formats are definitely out of question because someone tried them out on an HDMI board and it didn't work...? :confused:

    Beside Sky HDTV, HD-DVD and BluRay players will eventually present the same challenge, i.e. HD signals will be output solely via HDCP-protected digital video connections. Therefore there's more than just SkyHD at stake here, I think it's important people take it into account (and Panasonic should, as well...) since we should see the first HD DVD models appear next year...

    The Panny PW7 is on my short list, except it's still impossible to see it in action (here in Paris) and I'm not sure I'd want to do a "blind" purchase, though I don't doubt its PQ for a second... Now this lack of support for European HD alone could be a valid reason to entirely discard Panasonic plasmas (until they sort out this 50Hz issue, they MUST know about it, no...?) :(
     
  3. Dutch

    Dutch
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    Just a small point, there is no such thing as NTSC HDTV standard or PAL HDTV standard. They are all standards defined by the ATSC.

    Steve
     
  4. Todda

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    As I have just posted in another thread, the PHD7 will accept 720p at 50hz via DVI and tyhe HDMI board is not a true HDMI board if it does not accept this signal.
     
  5. Lizzard

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    No point as 750(720)/60p and 1125(1080)/60i will never be used in Europe

    My clarifaction is to explain what standards will be used in PAL vs NTSC territory.
     
  6. Lizzard

    Lizzard
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    The HDMI board is rev 1.1
     
  7. Rasczak

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    ...and if you refer to the HDMI specification v1.1. then it should support 750(720)@50p and 1125(1080)@50i. See section 6.2.1 in the specification:

    ...and...
    So provided Panasonic have stuck to the HDMI v1.1 specification then it all looks quite promising TBH. Guess we'll have to wait and see though...

    For those that haven't seen it the HDMI v1.1 spec is here:
    http://www.hdmi.org/download/HDMI_Specification_1.1.pdf
     
  8. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    so as you can all see HDMI spec is based around 50Hz and 60Hz so to use HDMI lisence must offer these options...
     
  9. njr

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    Unless they messed up.......
     
  10. Lizzard

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    And what does HDMI v1.0 spec say when it comes to supported video formats?

    You have a link to that document?

    It could be that Panasonics HDMI board isn't rev1.1 but rev1.0 instead even if the whitepaper says the contrary, who knows?

    Something is fishy here....
     
  11. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    I hope not............


     
  12. Rasczak

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    Didn't the online manual someone dug up say it was v1.1? I'm pretty sure it did - but without routing through the millions of posts on this forum to re-discover the link I can't be sure.
     
  13. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    See my post on similar topic elsewhere....IGNORE SPECS PANASONIC PDF QUOTES.....

    Gordon
     
  14. Lizzard

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    Will the Panasonic DVI card accept 720p/50 from a Denon 3910 player and display it properly?

    Likewise 1080i/50?
     
  15. Lizzard

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    I've searched the forum like crazy and here is the answer from MAW about the DVI card.

    Your problem is due to the lack of 50Hz support on DVI. You can make it all work at 60Hz, but you will see a certain amount of judder on pans. You are better off with VGA TBH, the dvi is more hassle than it's worth.

    It sums up what i said in the first post that 720/50p and 1080/50i is NOT supported as it is 50Hz.
     
  16. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    MAW was talking about DVI card.....as there are no HDMI cards for testing yet......
    There IS support for DVI at 50Hz currently just not at 720 or 1080i on DVI.....

    Gordon
     
  17. osho

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    i worry about Pio 868 - PHD7 (via HDMI) connection

    if you said that lumagen work properly on DVI boards, maybe it will on HDMI ?
    does PIO have a firmware for 868 which correct PIO-Panny problem ?
    or 868 will work with HDMI board without any firmware ??

    anybody doing the tests ? :smoke:
     
  18. JonStatt

    JonStatt
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    Apologies but all of these threads are now confusing me on a side issue.

    With a PW6 and a DVI card installed, will I be able to watch American (region 1) DVDs that are HDCP encoded perfectly? Additionally will I be able to watch the new HD DVDs when they start next year, that are also American region 1, perfectly?

    These are the two most important things for me.

    Jonathan
     
  19. osho

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    i guess there is NO problem with region 1 its NTSC and panny support it at all :)

    all questions and mysteries is with PAL dvd :(
     
  20. Lizzard

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    Yes but the important thing is that it does NOT support 720/50p and 1080i/50 on the DVI card.

    If it supports other signals doesn't matter as the ones i have listed are the ones that needs to be supported and that will be used when HDTV comes along.

    If the HDMI card doesn't follow the specficiation and it's the same problem there then it's a dead end for Panasonic.

    If you read the official brochure of the 7-series and the listed cards it clearly states that 720/50p and 1080i/50 is NOT supported, if you also read the Japanese pdf document just for the card it says the same and the same modelnumber of the HDMI card is used worldwide, there isn't any specific European or U.S version as far as i can tell, otherwise they would have added some letter to the model number.

    This is what it says in the documents, in reality we don't know, but current status is that it doesn't support these signals, i hope for Panasonic sake and all customers that it supports these signals when someone get the hands of a card and actually tries it out and confirm if it supports 720/50p and 1080i/50.
     
  21. Lizzard

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    Well it's not fun when Sky and other broadcasters begin their HDTV services at 720/50p or 1080/50i and Panasonic isn't capable of accepting the 50Hz signals that i have talked about.

    Sames goes when HD-DVD comes along, this is pretty serious stuff that Panasonic needs to take a grip on.

    I really hope that the HDMI card shows other results than the current signals it supports in the documents.
     
  22. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    Have you got a link to that? Would quite like to have a read through it.
     
  23. Lizzard

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    Yes sure, in this first document published by Panasonic Germany, if you scroll down the document to the optional cards you can see the HDMI card and what signals it accepts, no 720/50p or 1080/50i.

    Panasonic 2005 Leaflet

    The other document link to the Panasonic Japanese site and their it explains the card and it's supported signals it accept, take notice that it's the same model number as the European version so they use the same card worldwide, but that shouldn't matter as they clearly states HDMI v1.1

    Panasonic TY-FB7HM Specs

    Why would they forget to mention such important signals like 720/50p and 1080/50i? it will be very interesting to see if the documents tell the truth or not when someone get real experience with this card.
     
  24. Rasczak

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    Many thanks Lizzard, it has been linked to before on the forum but I was unable to find it during a search.
     
  25. carlton

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    Thats put a downer on the hd7 i was gonna buy,in the german spec like lizard says 720p and 1080i at 50hz clearly not supported.

    Still i cant believe panny wouldnt support these if the hdmi spec is 1.1
    Bring out those damn boards!!
     
  26. Lizzard

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    As Gordon told us we have to wait for the HDMI boards to arrive to give a definitive answer if it is up to the HDMI v1.1 specifications or not.

    I was thinking going for myself a TH-42PHD7 or TH-50PHD7, it's a shame really if it doesn't work.
     
  27. peezee

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    Well, I have crossed checked several Panasonic docs (Japan, US, France and Germany) for the HDMI and DVI boards and they all say this essentially:

    Code:
     
      [B]DVI board    HDMI board[/B]
    TY-42TM6D    TY-FB7HM
    -----------------------------------
       480p60         480p60
       575p50         575p50
       720p60         720p60
      1080i60        1080i60
     
     640x480@60    640x480@60
     852x480@60
     800x600@60
     1024x768@60
    
    Therefore:

    --> you can drive both SD or HD panel's native resol. @60Hz via DVI (but not via HDMI)

    --> Europe HDTV and R2 high def DVD formats are NOT supported via DVI or HDMI


    Having had a good look at the various brochures, it's obvious the European ones have been reworked and re-layed out by Panasonic Europe, not mere translations from the US or Japan brochures. While this doesn't necessarily mean they're fully accurate, it does lower the probability that 720p50 and/or 1080i50 formats could have been omitted.

    I would go so far as to say that if later someone finds out they actually _are_ supported, then too bad, it would just show that Panasonic is just unable to provide the right level of support and confidence we should expect from them...

    Well, on the basis that HD content will be available mostly (if not only) via DVI or HDMI, I'm afraid this puts an end to my hopes I could get a Panasonic plasma today and be ready for European HDTV. This infuriates me since I really wanted to get a Panny for their fabulous PQ. I was even ready to compromise on lesser warranty and post-sales support... :mad:

    P.S. I know of a bunch of potential Panny plasma buyers who went off to other brands as soon as they learned about the issues with 50Hz... and I'm next.
    One of these days Panasonic should really re-think their marketing strategy for Europe... :suicide:
     
  28. njr

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    Whilst it seems that Panasonic have been rather tardy, I would still hang on until someone can get their hands on a HDMI board and can confirm either way whether it works or not.
     
  29. Rasczak

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    Why? Panasonic documentation has been wildly inaccurate before - why not again? The only way hopes will be fulfilled/dashed is when someone uses the HDMI card. Until then relax!
     
  30. MAW

    MAW
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    There are a few resolutions accepted by the DVI board that are not listed, it will do all sorts of stuff with my iscan, and I'm sure with Gordon's lovely lumagens. But this is all a bit of a nightmare, what with MXE's not being HDCP compliant, where do we go? And nobody say XDE for god's sake, we need an HDMI switching amp for that, and how much are they? Panasonic's SDI card is just the same BTW, no 50Hz support at high definition res.
     

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