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filling a 4:3 screen

Discussion in 'TVs' started by Earl Guedry, Jun 8, 2003.

  1. Earl Guedry

    Earl Guedry
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    Are any high definition television receivers with 4:3 screens available yet which would allow the viewer to zoom in on a broadcast 16:9 ratio image to fill the sets 4:3 screen by simply cutting off the ends of the picture,with no distortion?
     
  2. LV426

    LV426
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    It doesn't seem likely. High definition is designed as a 16x9 platform. In this context 4x3 is history and, my guess is, it won't ever be supported by a HD device.

    Personally, I can't imagine why anyone would want to watch only part of the picture. Maybe you could get a 16x9 HDTV and put some black felt over the left and right sides of the picture.
     
  3. Earl Guedry

    Earl Guedry
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    The problem with wide screens in a domestic interior is the practical use of space. A 27 inch wide 16:9 screen has much less viewable area than a 4:3 one. We choose our TV sizes by floor space rather than ceiling height. With any given screen size we will get a much smaller viewable image. History hasn't stopped in development of TVs or the the huge libraries of of material created for tall screens. I, and I'm sure others, am looking for a reasonably sized TV with a 4:3 screen for that "history" and would like to fill it with the center of the 16:9 broadcasts and still have a great big picture. I doubt that the fringes broadcast will often be important or at least not guessable. Wide screens were introduced in the fifties as a novelty to compete with TV, not because of any serious advantage. Now our little TV is supposed to ape the movies. The closer any format is to square the more artistic expression an artist has. Now, it's as if all we are supposed to expect from TV are verrry wide pictures (or very short pictures) or little screens ment for squinting.
     
  4. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    I'm sure you'll find lots of really useful advice if you ask in Dixons or Comet.
     
  5. LV426

    LV426
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    Well, I suppose everybody is entitled to have an opinion. Unfortunately, if that opinion is not shared by either the majority or the industry, you are left with the need for a hugely expensive, custom-built device.

    I doubt you will find a high definition one 'on the shelf'. I also doubt very much that the others who are looking for a reasonably sized TV with a 4:3 screen for that "history" and would like to fill it with the center of the 16:9 broadcasts and still have a great big picture and who are also willing to pay for high definition (or even, understand what it is), will be many, or easily located.
     
  6. Earl Guedry

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    Oh, I'm sure the industry will come out with such a feature if it's not already out there-it always does in a competitive environment. Similiar features already allow zooming in wide screen pictures from DVDs and letter-box formats. And I wonder if this is such a complicated or expensive thing to do. An inepensive bit of software allows a computer to do amazing things but what I am talking about is simply editing a bit of the ends of the scan lines and allowing the1080i to fill the4:3 screen. Simple zooming. If the majority wants a 16:9 screen or maybe in the future even wider this would in no way detract from the promotation of these wonders but would be just another one of those bells and whistles like sunroofs on cars that are never used by some of us but are there anyway.
     
  7. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Can I just chek here. Are you saying you want to ZOOM hi-def programming on a 4:3 device as you want a large screen area and are not concerned about the fact it will be wrong aspect ratio of original material?

    Also are you in USA?

    Gordon
     
  8. Earl Guedry

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    Yes and yes, i'm in the US. What I'm looking for is zooming in on a 1080i broadcast image without compressing or expanding the image so there would be no distortion but I would simply lose a small area of the image on the right and left side of it. The4:3 screen would be filled. The one technician I spoke to said although his company did not offer such an option it did not seem like a very big deal to provide and he wasn't sure it wasn't already offered by others.
    Although 16:9 is the new format (ratio) it's not a universal ideal for a screen that would be used for all video reproduction, but the high definition is definitely the desirable feature. Higher cost is justified by greater possible use in most consumer products.
     
  9. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    I think the only way your are going to be able to do this is with a front projection system and an off board scaler. The HTPC crowd will be able to tell you if there are any HiDef in capable capture cards.

    I actually don't think that any manufactureres are going to be in a hurry to add this functionality to their sets.
     
  10. Earl Guedry

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    Thanks, Gordon F,

    But I still trust the competitive spirit will encourage someone to decide to make this option available sooner rather than later.

    Earl
     
  11. LV426

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    You may be right. But, I'm not going to hold my breath. 4x3 is dying. Long live 16x9. HDTV is a new standard and part of that standard is a 16x9 ratio.
     
  12. Earl Guedry

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    It's amusing to think that anything has to die for HDTV to live. after all it doesn't actually eat anything.
     
  13. StooMonster

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    Classic, and spot on.

    It's gonna take years to get USA to 16:9 -- or at least it is from my experience of television shopping over there.

    Anyway, what Earl Guedry is asking for is exactly how Sky digital handles 16:9 content on 4:3 screen. (For our American friends, Sky digital is a 720x576 pixel, MPEG2 digital satellite interactive platform for UK with several hundred channels of rubbish, but much is in 16:9 ratio.)

    Actually, more specifically 4:3 users can set up in either of two ways: "letterbox" or "full screen". "Letterbox" shows the entire 16:9 width of the picture on screen, but down-scales vertically (losing vertical resolution) and has horizontal black bars. "Full screen" crops the left and right portion off the 16:9 image (losing horizontal resolution) to make it 4:3 but has no bars.

    This is all handled within a standard digibox, and is extremely easy to do. Don't see why this couldn't be implemented in other systems where people wish to keep their television square.

    Futhermore, some channels who broadcast in 16:9, transmit 4:3 material either at 4:3 ratio with big black vertical borders either side, or scale it to 14:9 cropping the top of the picture but with smaller vertical borders.

    I am sure all the same techniques will also be used in the USA.

    You will lose more image than you imagine.

    StooMonster
     
  14. Earl Guedry

    Earl Guedry
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    Well, this was a welcomed wave of light in what seemed to be at times becomming a swallowing sea of agendas with my own thoughtless cooperation helping not a bit.

    Thanks, StooMonster, now I have at least a place to start from.

    With prices so high, I, like a lot of other people am waiting to get the features I want. There seems so much disatisfaction with the present wide and the taller screen HDTVs that compress or compress only at the edges, or streatch or only slightly streatch, and sometimes with big black bands, sometimes little ones. Everyone is happily complaining on the internet forums.

    The old classic movies in HDTV filling up a 4:3 screen (from DVDs)is what I want with the option of filling up that same screen with the center of broadcast HDTV for casual viewing as I butter my toast. No gourmet broadcast viewer, me.
     
  15. Luc

    Luc
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    I'd have thought that HDTV is the equililent of a 9 course gourmet meal at the ritz, anyone who wants to compromise and eat it with a rusty spoon is beyond me. Maybe i'm just bitter...
     
  16. Earl Guedry

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    Nonsense, at the Ritz none would be served with a rusty spoon, maybe a runcible spoon, and then only if
    They dined on mince and slices of quince...
    which may be good for bitterness too.

    I thank eyeryone for their good help in understanding the stage of development of HDTV at the moment and will take my money and go out and get a great big shiny flat tube analog TV with "near high definition" advertising claims which will serve me until what I'm looking for hits the market. I would like to close this thread but I don't know how.
     

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