Fibre optic connection causes problem with my network

peejaygee

Standard Member
I recently signed up for a fibre optic connection with orange and now have a Livebox 5 installed. The house is relatively new and had
rj45 sockets installed in all rooms. Since the Livebox arrived, their is no connection between the router and any of the rj45 sockets.
My electrician is completely baffled and tells me the cabling is OK. the wifi and phoneline function properly and if i connect my mac directly into it, it works perfectly.
I baulk at the idea of getting a nertwork specialist in and a friend has suggested i strip out the current wiring and merely use a
long rj45 lead through the already installed pipework.
Is this a crazy idea? No run will be more than 25mtrs.
If it is a goer, what patch lead should I create. I have been reading up and saw this statement
"If you require a cable to connect two Ethernet devices directly together without a hub or when you connect two hubs together, you will need to use a Crossover cable instead."
Is this what I need? If not, can anyone help me out.
Thanks
 

psychopomp1

Well-known Member
Orange Fibre Optic? Livebox 5? No such things in Blighty.
 

noiseboy72

Distinguished Member
The combination of the words "network" and "electrician" never fills me with confidence...

You need to check if the cables have been wired correctly and a network analyser rather than just a continuity tester is required to ensure they are wired correctly. It's possible to wire up an RJ45 socket so that it tests out on a basic test, but when you try and run network signals, it will not work. This is due to the make up of the balanced pairs of cables and how they are connected to the connectors.

I would suggest that it would be easier to get the existing cable working than trying to pull through new cables, which may or may not be in proper ducting - or have enough room to pull a cable and connector through without damage.
 

peejaygee

Standard Member
What cabling standard did he use when terminating the sockets and what did he terminate in to?
Thanks for your reply. If I understand your question (i am no expert) at the computer end it looks like a standard socket for an RJ45 to click into,marked 1 and beside it is a similar one marked 2 for my phoneline. What I dont understand is that this network worked perfectly when I was on ADSL. Am I being dim or helpful?
 

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peejaygee

Standard Member
The combination of the words "network" and "electrician" never fills me with confidence...

You need to check if the cables have been wired correctly and a network analyser rather than just a continuity tester is required to ensure they are wired correctly. It's possible to wire up an RJ45 socket so that it tests out on a basic test, but when you try and run network signals, it will not work. This is due to the make up of the balanced pairs of cables and how they are connected to the connectors.

I would suggest that it would be easier to get the existing cable working than trying to pull through new cables, which may or may not be in proper ducting - or have enough room to pull a cable and connector through without damage.
Thanks for your input and I understand your opening comment. The original installation worked flawlessly for 11 years whilst I was on ADSL. I now have superfast fibre optic but the Orange Livebox cannot communicate with anything through the network. I am between Orange who, correctly say the Livebox is working perfectly and my leectrician who has checked connections and assures me all is OK but left scratching his head.....me too.
 

brunation

Well-known Member

MaryWhitehouse

Well-known Member
Is this system fibre to the Livebox? Normally with either fibre or adsl the line would connect to your Livebox or previous router. Then your computer would be connected to that box. Possibly with a switch or wall cabling in between. What we’re seeing doesn’t make a lot of sense. Have you got anything connecting to the web through the Livebox? If not and you connect a computer directly to the Livebox and reboot it does it connect?
 

brunation

Well-known Member
Livebox5 is a Sagecom Fibre modem/router for Orange in France.

Have you got anything connecting to the web through the Livebox?

the wifi and phoneline function properly and if i connect my mac directly into it, it works perfectly

^^^ I read that as a physical connection from Mac to Livebox5.
 

MaryWhitehouse

Well-known Member
The pics with two sockets wouldn’t have worked by themselves before, some information is missing.
I don’t know french telecoms obviously but here you should have a socket to plug a phone in, and asocket to plug the router/Livebox in to. The home network being entirely separate either plugged into the router or another switch plugged into the router. All the home network sockets should route to that switch or router.
There are pieces missing here.
 

peejaygee

Standard Member
The pics with two sockets wouldn’t have worked by themselves before, some information is missing.
I don’t know french telecoms obviously but here you should have a socket to plug a phone in, and asocket to plug the router/Livebox in to. The home network being entirely separate either plugged into the router or another switch plugged into the router. All the home network sockets should route to that switch or router.
There are pieces missing here.
Thanks for that, I will have to grope around in the compartment under the stairs where it all starts from.
 

MaryWhitehouse

Well-known Member
Find yourself a local kid that’ll run rings round your electrician 😉
 

mickevh

Distinguished Member
Regarding crossover cables - you hardly ever need them these days: Gigabit ethernet requires "straight" (not crossed) cables and most 10/100 ethernet equipment features a technology called "Auto-MDI/MDI-X" which automatically uncrosses/crosses the cabling as required (usually it occurs in the router/switch ports, but some end stations have it too.)

Another thing to check on the cabling is that it's all been installed "point-to-point" and there's no splicing anywhere. Ethernet requires that there is one, and only one, active "thing" each end of any given cable lobe.

I've never done any phones in France, but in the UK domestic phones can use "common bus" cabling where all the sockets are spliced together. That's fine for phones, but won't work for ethernet,

A diagnostic you could use to check whether you have a problem with your router or your cabling would be to connect something direct to each of your router ports and check they all work. If they are OK, you can infer a problem with the cabling infrastructure (and it is unlikely your ISP will offer any help as the problem is not with anything "they" provided.) If not, maybe time to get onto the ISP.
 
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peejaygee

Standard Member
Regarding crossover cables - you hardly ever need them these days: Gigabit ethernet requires "straight" (not crossed) cables and most 10/100 ethernet equipment features a technology called "Auto-MDI/MDI-X" which automatically uncrosses/crosses the cabling as required (usually it occurs in the router/switch ports, but some end stations have it too.)

Another thing to check on the cabling is that it's all been installed "point-to-point" and there's no splicing anywhere. Ethernet requires that there is one, and only one, active "thing" each end of any given cable lobe.

I've never done any phones in France, but in the UK domestic phones can use "common bus" cabling where all the sockets are spliced together. That's fine for phones, but won't work for ethernet,

A diagnostic you could use to check whether you have a problem with your router or your cabling would be to connect something direct to each of your router ports and check they all work. If they are OK, you can infer a problem with the cabling infrastructure (and it is unlikely your ISP will offer any help as the problem is not with anything "they" provided.) If not, maybe time to get onto the ISP.
Thanks for that clarification, you have put my mind at rest as, if all else fails, I do intend to pull cat5e through the ducting and terminate it directly into the Livebox. Last throw of the dice, I have a network specialist looking at it on Monday.....fingers crossed.
 

Seb Briggs

Distinguished Member
How many points around the house and what are they connected to as the live box only has 4 rj45 connections on it
 
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Deleted member 24354

Guest
Previous devices on static IPs? Or Manual DNS / Gateway New live box uses a different network range? WiFi works because it’s auto discovered with DHCP?
Common problem I have seen a lot when ISPs and routers get changed. The cabling is fine, it’s worked for 11 years. It’s the Router that has changed. Most likely just the network settings. That is presuming they plugged the live box in at the other end.
 
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Deleted member 24354

Guest
OK had a rethink, looked at the photos, Stab in the dark. Previous ADSL router - 11 years old 100TX network ports - only uses 2 pairs of conductors. Orange box 5 has 4 x gigabit ports uses all 8 conductors. Sockets in photo are wired T568A my guess is the other end are wired T568B (crosswired). On 100meg connections it wouldn’t have mattered as the common 4 are the same but on Gigabit it would fail to work as it needs all 4 pairs and 2 pairs are cross wired (maybe). A cheap network continuity tester of Amazon would resolve if that is the problem.
 

peejaygee

Standard Member
OK had a rethink, looked at the photos, Stab in the dark. Previous ADSL router - 11 years old 100TX network ports - only uses 2 pairs of conductors. Orange box 5 has 4 x gigabit ports uses all 8 conductors. Sockets in photo are wired T568A my guess is the other end are wired T568B (crosswired). On 100meg connections it wouldn’t have mattered as the common 4 are the same but on Gigabit it would fail to work as it needs all 4 pairs and 2 pairs are cross wired (maybe). A cheap network continuity tester of Amazon would resolve if that is the problem.
cables have been rewired for Gigabit,they have all been individually checked for current capability (forgive my non tech phrase) and are OK. Cheap network tester indicates no signal happening on wire 1 at the "send " end and no signal being received on wire 3 at the receive end. This is the white/green wire in both cases. I have attached a wiring diagram (albeit in french) but everyone here is scratching their head. I am beginning to think the only answer is to replace the cabling maybe with cat6
 

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Deleted member 24354

Guest
What you describe makes no sense. The green/white wire should be in the same position at both ends. If you have wired one end as the left diagram and the other end, as the right diagram, it will not work. They are two completely different types of wiring. Both ends should be wired as the left hand diagram,
 

mickevh

Distinguished Member
If any cores are showing "no signal" then Gigabit ethernet won't come up. And depending which cores it could prevent 10/100.

The cables (whatever speed you are wiring for) should all be wired "straight" - pin1 at the "X" end connects to pin1 at the "Y" end and so on. Generally it doesn't much matter whether you use the "A" or "B" wiring scheme as long as they are the same both ends of each cable lobe. However, I've "always used B" for more years than I can remember and if I ever knew why, I've forgotten, so I just go with the flow - T568B both ends all cables wired straight. I'll link my favourite DIY site on UTP - it has lots of picture of pin outs, identifies which is pin1 on the plugs/sockets and so on....


stripey-orange/orange/stripey-green/blue/stripey-blue/green/stripey-brown/brown. I swear I chant it in my sleep..!
 

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