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FFDshow

Discussion in 'Desktop & Laptop Computers Forum' started by DustySox, Feb 27, 2005.

  1. DustySox

    DustySox
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    Hi,

    This is mainly aimed at KraGorn and all other FFDshow experts!

    I have started to use this "wonderful" little programme and it's a tweakers paradise, however the results can be "hurtful"!

    I was wondering if we could start an "idiots guide" to help people like me in the minefield that is FFDshow? Specifically to AV forums.

    Kind regards

    Darren
     
  2. KraGorn

    KraGorn
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    To be honest if you've got the thing up and running and are getting useful, if imperfect, results then there's no source of information I'm aware of to help you. The only 'how to' I know of is the one containing the 'Yoda' screenshot but you're beyond that if you're getting a watchable picture.

    *I* don't know much of what goes on. :)

    Much of what I know came from poking around, enabling filters, sliding sliders and seeing what happens. There is a humungous thread on AVS which is pretty impenetrable now to extract useful information. If you read that thread, which I'm not suggesting you do, you'll see there are some people who DO understand it. Their advice is helpful but only because their knowledge adds weight.

    To counter that though, another thread we've discussed featured comments from a well-respected expert in scaling who basically demolished the widely held view that Lanczos scaling was always best and always best at higher settings. His explanation of the theory and practice showed the 'experts' who were propounding using Lanczos 8 were basically talking rubbish and that such high values were hurting PQ rather than helping.

    There's a somewhat shorter one I've linked to before where pople are posting their settings. This is useful not so you slavishly follow others because these things differ system to system and person to person, but instead you see some common themes (eg. most people use Lanczos sizing and few go above '4' on that for reasons we've discussed before). That's what I did.

    After a while you realise that while there are vast numbers of filters and options, very few are useful for playing DVDs, remember it's a general video processor for a variety of sources and stream types. There's also a goodly amount of historical baggage in the thing, because it's open source no-one 'owns' the product as a whole so there's often no housekeeping, clearing out the detritis when a better variant comes along.

    Look at all the resize filters for a start, there are probably no more than 3 that would ever be used these days, the rest produce such terrible results they'd be excised from a commercial product or one that's maintained by a single developer to reduce complexity if nothing else.

    Ultimately, from all I've read it's clear that there are 3 main uses of FFDSHOW:

    Scaling
    Sharpening
    Denoising

    Other filters may be useful once in a while. I've posted my results, others have done the same. The thread I link about has more settings from those you'll have covered 99% of all users I would think.

    There's a lot of snake oil going round in this whole area. I try to not pass on any comments I've not personally verified, but one I did recently about bumping AF up high is probably in that category. It's the sort of thing that's hard to prove and while it's easy to see its' effect in 3D games I wasn't sure I could see it playing DVDs. It now appears it's quite possibly illusory and that AF has no effect.
     
  3. zAndy1

    zAndy1
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    This is a good starting point... http://htpcnews.com/main.php?id=ffdshowdvd_1 . Also try the Theatertek forums for some guidance. I think the general rule of thumb is to move the Blur & NR up to the top so it's the first thing that's done, I use Denoise3d but gradual denoise is also worth trying. Then do your resize and aspect settings, lanczos method is best, some people swear by Lanczos 4 others find that too much, I settled on Lanczos 3 personally. Once you've got it basically set up correctly you can change the values on Luma Sharpen etc and find what you like best.

    Cheers
    Andy
     
  4. DustySox

    DustySox
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    Hi guys,

    thankyou for getting back to me. Sorry it's taken so long, pesky work keeps getting in the way of my favourite hobby! So much so, that I was unable attend Bristol show :-{

    Anyway, back to FFDshow. I am using Theatertek 2, along with Saphire Radeon 9600 Atlantis card set to 1280 x 720,connected to Sim 30h via HDMI. I have been playing with FFDshow and with on screen display set to on, I notice that the input size is 720 x 576, and output is 720 x 576. have projector set to pixel to pixel. What am I missing here, should it not read 1280 x 720?

    And should video output of Theatertek be set to VMR9?

    I was never this confused!!!!!!!!

    :lease:


    kind regards

    Darren
     
  5. KraGorn

    KraGorn
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    What Resize parameters have you set in FFDSHOW? Have you actually activated the Resize filter? Sounds like you're not scaling.

    With an ATI card you'd normally expect Overlay to be slightly better, that's my epxerience with 9600s and 9800s .. the difference is marginal though.
     
  6. DustySox

    DustySox
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    Hi Kragorn

    I have gone through settings again (according to link you kindly provided) and now have output at 1270 x 720, only problem now is "juddering" of playback. What setting would you suggest, i change to resolve this. It's causing my pc to lock,and have to re-boot.

    Also, are you saying to leave VMR enabled in Theatertek?

    Knd regards

    Darren
     
  7. DustySox

    DustySox
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    Hi,

    The juddering seems to be caused by the 1280 x 720 setting in resize parameter. Any thoughts on this? i set it to 640 x 480, and problem disappears. i have a 3.2Ghz prcessor with 1GHz of RAM.

    Any suggestions would be most welcome!

    Kind regards

    Darren
     
  8. whats_this

    whats_this
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    uninstall ffdshow, restart, download a different version of ffdshow (newest you can find to begin with) and reinstall. Fixed all stuttering for me. A simple uninstall/reinstall could actually help as my stuttering seemed to develop.
     
  9. KraGorn

    KraGorn
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    Hard to believe that resizing to that is a problem on that system.

    Have you used Task Manager to monitor CPU usage. You should be using either the 20040709_sse2 version (aka. "Andy's" version) of else 20041012_sse2, nothing later is worthwhile in terms of features for DVD playback, and many people (including myself) see a drop in performance for no benefit).

    What filters are you using and in what order? What parameters are you using?

    To give you some idea, I have a 3.0 P4 and with just Lanczos 2 sizing to 1920x1080 with 1.5 Luma Sharpening CPU usage is less than 80%.
     
  10. DustySox

    DustySox
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    Hi

    I am at work at the moment (gotta pay for this hobby somehow!), i will check to see what version of FFD i am using. If it's not what you recomend, I will uninstall-install your version. And then report my settings this evening.

    Out of interest, why have you got yours set to 1920 x 1080?

    Regards

    Darren
     
  11. KraGorn

    KraGorn
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    Trial and error. :)

    I output 1280x720 but discovered that if I let FFDSHOW scale up higher and then let the graphics card down-scale I can get just as sharp an image using just Luma Sharpening as I could with Unsharp Mask in the Sharpen filter, but without the induced ringing caused by cranking up sharpening. It's a technique called 'over-sampling' and is quite commonly used by those with enough CPU power, you'll often see people mentioning scaling to 1440x960, being double NTSC resolution, but since I play a mix of NTSC and PAL I decided to scale to a proportion of output rather than input sizes to save having to alter the parameters based on video type.
     
  12. DustySox

    DustySox
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    Hi,

    Out tof interest where would I be best off downloading versions from you recommend?

    Darren
     
  13. KraGorn

    KraGorn
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  14. Nick Cartwright

    Nick Cartwright
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    The only tiem I ever get a lock out is when I use too high a Lanczos parameter (i.e. 10) then responses slow to a stop.

    As Robin says, start with the parameter at 2. Don't bother with any other filters. IMO you don't need any denoise/noise reduction on 90% of DVD's anyway.

    Once it is runnign smoothly then just add Luma Sharpen to taste (I use Resize 1270x720 Lanczos 2, Luma 1.5 and the CPU load on an Athlon 2.8xp is havering around 57%) I don't use NVVPP in TT2.0 as I see no difference.

    Nick
     
  15. KraGorn

    KraGorn
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    Agreed about NVPP, useless IMHO with ATIs and definitely hurts the PQ, I've seen it said it addes chroma delay which could account for the slightly 'milkiness' I and some others experienced when using it. Allegedly it handles 3:2 pulldown but I found it hard to see even that.
     

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