Feeling uncertain

seemehd

Standard Member
I have a 40" 1080P TV that I've been using for a few years now. Not sure of some specs but I still find 1080p high bitrate content to be impressive. I've been considering an upgrade for two reasons 1) I think a 49-55" may be a better fit and 2) I like to watch TV in a bright setting during the day or with lights on at night, but I find the reflection to be annoying at times.

I use the TV to watch movies, series, anime and sports from time to time. I also have a playstation 4, but I'd say I spend more time watching than playing. My usage of the TV isn't consistent, there can be times where I won't turn the TV on for days and other times where I'll binge watch or play games for a few hours day after day.

I'm aware that only higher end lcd/oled TVs can display hdr content properly, but this is where I'm lacking certainty. I recently visited my local Curry's and I wasn't impressed by any of the high end lcd screens. I'm not sure if it was due to the source content being low quality, or just me genuinely not being impressed. I found the oled TVs to be much more impressive, but not to the extent that can justify a £800-1000 plus purchase. With that being said, I wouldn't get an oled anyway due to burn in and brightness issues.

I've also been watching videos by an independent professional calibrator called Quantum TV who argues that HDR is largely a scam that lacks a consistent standard and that SDR produces a better, more colourful image overall. He says that in store demos are heavily edited in post production and while there are some things which can look really good in hdr, it's not the majority of content. He even shows examples and I found myself preferring the vibrant sdr images over the flat, "more realistic" hdr ones. If his reasoning is sound, then will it be enough for me to purchase an LCD TV with fald that has less than 1000 nits peak brightness, or would that still make a major difference overall, whether the content is sdr or hdr?

Sorry for the long post.
 
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EndlessWaves

Distinguished Member
I've also been watching videos by an independent professional calibrator called Quantum TV who argues that HDR is largely a scam that lacks a consistent standard and that SDR produces a better, more colourful image overall. He says that in store demos are heavily edited in post production and while there are some things which can look really good in hdr, it's not the majority of content. He even shows examples and I found myself preferring the vibrant sdr images over the flat, "more realistic" hdr ones. If his reasoning is sound, then will it be enough for me to purchase an LCD TV with fald that has less than 1000 nits peak brightness, or would that still make a major difference overall, whether the content is sdr or hdr?
HDR is at it's core simply a new set of standards to allow video to use richer colours and higher brightness levels than previously possible - where the creator chooses to use them.

It isn't any sort of special effect or alternate display technology, it's simply a wider palette. Any SDR video can be recreated to look identical in HDR.

It sounds like what he's criticising is the way many content creators are choosing to make their HDR versions different, or simply the undesirable results produced by their lack of understanding of the differences and the new mechanisms.

It's a big change and we're in the early stages so some of that is inevitable. Think of the way many early colour TV programs and films have colour schemes that look off by modern standards.

Whether there's more than the expected amount going on I'm not sure, most of the stuff I watch isn't being produced in HDR yet.
 

Sloppy Bob

Distinguished Member
In my opinion and a fair few others on the forum.

4K purely as a resolution boost over 1080p is barely noticeable unless you have a huge screen or sit very close to your TV.
HDR and WGC are the main benefits of the 4K standard and when done well, they're stunning.

I've seen a few people mentioning his reviews and I watched a couple. I wasn't overly impressed. He wears a cheap-looking Deadpool mask and shows off the "Inky Blacks" of the TV, but you're watching it on your TV which may be some cheap Vestel garbage that has no "inky blacks" so obviously you're not seeing them.

You can't trust anything you see in Currys (or hear from the staff usually) as the sources vary and they'll normally have the TV set to a "shop mode" which nobody who cares about picture quality would ever use.
 

seemehd

Standard Member
Thanks for your honest comments. Would you say that purchasing a higher end tv with 1000 or more nits peak brightness would still be a major advantage for sdr content? Assuming that the state of hdr remains as it during the next 5-10 years?

Also, which retailer has the best returns policy? So say I get the TV and I'm not happy with the results even after changing content and settings after a few days?
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
Already good advice given above.

With that being said, I wouldn't get an oled anyway due to burn in and brightness issues.
There are no issues. Just the disadvantages associated with self emmisive display tech. The same as Plasma TVs. For most people burn in is not a risk, but it depends on your usage. Brightness - OLEDs can get a lot brighter than LCD TVs of old can, sometimes as much as 2-3 brighter. Depends on the content and how much brightness is demanded by the scene.
Quantum TV
This says a lot. This guy is just awful. I'd avoid him like the plague. Miss-information is plenty, his channel is full of personal agenda against OLEDs and most of what he talks about is pure garbage. There's a lot of good info on YouTube, but there is also a lot of terrible info such as the crap this guy spurts out.

He has used pictures of Steve (a reputable reviewer here on AVF) and Vincent (a reputable reviewer at HDTVtest) in video thumbnails and created conspiracies surrounding their opinions. He has no respect for professionals in the industry and I can guarantee he is not a professional himself.

It sounds like you have been scare mongered into thinking you can't buy an OLED, despite liking how they look on the premise you will be at risk of image burn..yet as far as I can see from what you have said about your usage you won't be at risk of screen burn at all.
 

seemehd

Standard Member
I only came across his channel recently so I haven't seen his videos or comments against the people mentioned in your posts so I can't comment on that. To be fair, I was actually put off getting an oled before seeing his content due to watching various YouTube videos and seeing the complaints on this forum about how people can even get burn in gradually with retailers like richer sounds being difficult about replacement or even not including burn in as part of their warranty. Also, Quantum criticises LCD TVs as well from what I've seen.

Anyway, I don't want this to turn into a conversation about who said what. I just want to have confidence in paying for a higher end model.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
Well, its completely up to you. My point is people should be given clear and balanced information regarding burn in..and his channel in particular is just full of biased misinformation and scare mongering. There's a lot of horror stories online regarding burn in, but you never know the details of how someone has received burn in on their TV uses their TVs..failure rate of OLEDs is no higher than LCD TVs, so despite what it may seem when you read these stories, its not common at all..it doesn't really apply to everyone and its not any more likely to happen compared to other faults also associated with LCD TVs.

Most people who own OLED TVs do not see burn in because they use their TV with varied usage. If you feel your usage isn't varied, then that puts you at risk more. You can see we already discussed burn in lots before, including my thread here: OLED Burn In Risk

If you are interested in buying an OLED but feel you are at risk, you can always purchase one from John Lewis and pay extra for their insurance that states they cover it under 'accidental damage'...but perhaps that isn't great advice right now since John Lewis presently only have overpriced 2020 models in stock.
 

seemehd

Standard Member
I'll have a look through the thread. By the way, can I go to currys and ask them to play 4k hdr content from my usb 3 stick so I can make a comparison between the lcd and oled tvs in the bright environment? If yes, can you recommend a website that I can download uncompressed footage from? I've been trying 4kmedia.org but it doesn't let me download the files.

Not sure what's going on with the text formatting here...out our ad
 
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Dodgexander

Moderator
I've fixed your text. You hit the button (or keyboard shortcut) for right to left formatting instead of the default left to right.

Does this thread help?

Not sure how helpful Curry's will be but a Richer Sounds or similar I am sure will be willing to give you a demo. You can call ahead and ask.

Shop conditions are usually very bright, and usually a reason not to judge a TV in person. If you are judging only how the TV copes with glare though, it may work for you.
 

seemehd

Standard Member
I've managed to find some 4k hdr clips which I believe are uncompressed so I can put them usb and try to play in store. Honestly though, this is too much hassle for a TV lol.

Also, I'm kind of confused... quite a few of the high end OLED TVs only have decent ratings for HDR peak brightness from rtings. I was under the assumption that you need 1000 for a good image.
 
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Dodgexander

Moderator
The 1000 nit figure is a good baseline for an LCD TV since it can't show as much detail closer to black like an OLED can.

Despite being dimmer OLEDs strengths with HDR are with per pixel dimming and nearer to black detail compared to an LCD TV.
 

seemehd

Standard Member
So I went to Currys today and tried a few 4k hdr files from my usb that I'm assuming aren't compressed. I tried the Sony XG9505 and LG B9. The image looked good on the Sony and somewhat better on the LG, but not to the extent that I felt like it was significant. Perhaps it was due to the OLED being in a bright room. Either way, I don't feel like the difference in quality can justify a £1000 purchase. Maybe £800 max brand new with 5/6 year warranty.

What are your thoughts on paying £480 for a C Grade 49" XG9005 with 3 months warranty?
£560 for B Grade with 1 year warranty?
£799 for 65" XF9005 B Grade with 1 year warranty?
£576 for 55Q80R C Grade with 3 months warranty?
 
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Dodgexander

Moderator
The XG9005 is practically the same TV as the XF9005 but refreshed with a new model number in 2018. They are the same TV but the XG is available at 49" and comes with the latest software pre-installed. You can install the same software on the XF9005.

Where are you finding those refurb units from? Sony have been selling refurbs with better prices here: Bargain - Sony centre direct refurbished store thread

If you can still find one (they come and go fast) then you can also pay in addition for an extended warranty.

From the models and prices you mention the 65" XF9005 would be top on my list. You need a big TV to enjoy UHD, no point having UHD on a 49" or 55" model imo.

For most people there's next to no point on a 65" because you need to view very very close even to that size tv!
 

seemehd

Standard Member
Come to think of it, a 65" will be too big for me. I'll be sitting with 6 feet which is great for the size, but bad for my neck lol. I'm even in doubt as to whether or not a 55" is even too big.

So:



£549 for the 55XF9005 in good condition with one year warranty would have been ideal if it were in stock. What do you think? Since there's no guarantee. Should I go with the ones from ebay or wait for something cheaper, in better condition and longer warranty?
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
The Samsung is more closer to the XG9505 in spec than the XF9005, so its the next best deal behind the 65" XF9005.

I wouldn't consider going smaller, 49" is just too small. 6ft isn't close for UHD, at home in my cinema room I view 4f from my 65".
1596477530826.png


If its a living room TV, or you care a lot still about how poor quality material looks, then that is reason to go smaller..but there's more about that in my size matters guide I linked in my last reply.
 

seemehd

Standard Member
The Samsung lacks dolby vision and only has a 3 month warranty. Is it worth the risk? My maximum distance will be 6ft. I won't feel comfortable going closer than 4.5 ft. According to the chart, a 55" is worth it beyond 6ft.
 

Sloppy Bob

Distinguished Member
I wouldn't touch any refurb with no warranty. It might last 4 months and you're screwed.

ebay seller said:
It will have very noticeable moderate to heavy scratches, scuffs, marks or dents.
Where, on the screen possibly?
Not a chance. There's no pictures of the damage, just generic pictures of a TV from a brochure.

I view a 65" from 7 ft and it's not too large. You're talking about a cricked neck, you don't have the TV above the fireplace do you?

(a pet hate of mine but I realise decor is a compromise)

I wouldn't be buying any of those TV's.

You want a great discount, a year warranty minimum and pics of the TV you're buying with close ups of the damage.
I bought a refurb Samsung a few years ago and it had all the above, they were a great seller but don't seem to be active anymore.
 
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Dodgexander

Moderator
The Samsung lacks dolby vision and only has a 3 month warranty. Is it worth the risk? My maximum distance will be 6ft. I won't feel comfortable going closer than 4.5 ft. According to the chart, a 55" is worth it beyond 6ft.
Yes, 6ft is close to when it starts to be discernible, in a perfect scenario of course. But it doesn't matter, just theory. You should view as close or as far away as you feel is right. If I were you I'd buy from the Sony outlet and pay extra for an extended warranty.
Bought my own DX902 from Panasonic as a refurb back in 2017 and its still going strong. Came with a year warranty.
 

Sloppy Bob

Distinguished Member
It's not the only option.

There is waiting and following the advice you've asked for.

I'd say it's
a/ Too small
b/ Not a great deal compared to what may come up in the Sony Centre refurbs.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
This is the only option I have now then to be on the safe side... unless I wait for something else.
What about keeping what you have and upgrading when the right deal comes along? Slim pickings right now because its a little late to be looking at 2019 models. 10 months from now we will the new XH9505's on the Sony refurb store and you could pair that with an extended warranty.
 

Sloppy Bob

Distinguished Member
I've found refurbs for friends quite a bit after the model year runs out as they find older stock or get around to refurbishing it and sell it through.
My Samsung was quite a bit after the shops had ran out IIRC and my Sony was still available if you went hunting but the actual Sony centres had ran out of new stock and I bought a refurb.

You just need to be patient, keep checking all the time (get up for a pee at 4am, log in and have a peek)
and most importantly, quick acting when you do see the bargain.
Don't do what I did though..

 

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