FAO: Yamaha RXV Series Owners

[Jeli]

Hi,

I have had a problem with a Yamaha RX-V767 AVR.

The issue: My sub woofer is very quiet and I'm allocating +10dB from the Yamaha GUI and full gain at the sub woofer. It's still pretty poor and currently with Yamaha for testing.

Please can I ask only for RX-V owners who have been in this situation to reply. Do you still have the problem or were you able to fix it? If so what fixed it.

I know I'm not the only one so looking to gather a list.

Can you also please include the model AVR and the sub woofer in use.

1. Jeli - Yamaha RX-V767 - Wharfedale Diamond MX10 150w sub woofer - unresolved

Comments: Shipped with firmware 1.14 and I upgraded to 2.11. No configuration settings have helped.

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2.

Comments:

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Thanks all.
Jeli

 

[markymiles]

I know there are a couple with this issue on the 1067/2067/3067 owners thread recently

 

[stevall7]

I have had a problem with a Yamaha RX-V3067 using a KEF HTB2 Sub.

My sub woofer was very quiet and I was having to allocate +10dB from the Yamaha to get any descent bass. I initially set up using the YPAO set up and the sub put out a strong test tone. Ran it a second time and you could barely hear the test tone. Factory reset it, but again was hardly audioable on the test. No amount of configuration setting changes then made any difference to the bass. The bass sound muffled and I was having to allocate +10db on the amp.
Was advised by yamaha to do a firmware update. Was 2.05 and updated to 3.10. Worked fine after that. Well I say it worked fine. Used the auto setup, and got a strong sub test tone, however I did notice that it had put my sub distance 0.3m from my seating position, even though it was 4.2m away. Did not want to risk running the auto set up again just in case, so just used manual set up to adjust the distance and tweek the levels.

 

[owais2k]

I had the same ( very )weak bass issue.

The amplifier was a Yamaha 767. Sub woofer Tannoy TS10.

I tried alot of settings unsuccessfully.

Tweaked crossover, set speakers to small then large. I could not resolve the issue no matter what I tried.

The supplier who is actively involved in these forums was helpful in offering suggestions but nothing worked. They even suggested I turn sub to quarter power , after setup turn up the half.

I gave up in the end and returned the amp. Shame because everything was brilliant about it. 😡😡😡😡😡

 

[Jeli]

Thanks for the replies.

It seems an RX-V667 owner has encountered this as well - posted on this site.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/home...information/1383073-rxv667-bass-problems.html

 

[CEC]

Adding myself to the list:
http://www.avforums.com/forums/av-amplifiers-receivers/1556432-low-volume-preouts.html

Yamaha Rx-V765 (2009 model), Sub is Wharfedale SW150, new installation.

Low volume experienced on all the preouts, including the sub preout.

Haven't tried firmware upgrade yet but will do soon to see if that helps.

 

[Jeli]

Not good news from my point of view.

The amp tested okay with Yamaha and was so I'm told in spec. They only carried out a factory reset and said the sub used in conjunction was fine.

I complained and they replaced components in the area concerned;

QC Product all functions tested OK. Tested under load, NFF with Sub woofer It is within Spec.

Repl capacitor Placed C1069

Applied Service News as of E 1409

Component Level repair on WR 432000

Part Number UR 828220 Electrolytic Cap . 220.00 10.OV

Seeing as it tested okay I can only assume the amp is not compatible with some sub woofers. Whether that is the sub woofer's fault or the amp is a tricky one. Not entirely sure why they would replace components though when it tested fine...

I for one do not really want this amp back and go through the testing again. To try and prove my point I have welcomed Yamaha and the retailer to demo my setup and then tell me its normal.

 

[jonnboyy69]

Hi,
Im sorry u guys have had probs with the rxv-sub setup, im aware of quite a few rxv owners on this site, in fact, the positive feedback in the dedicated rxv667 thread is soley the reason why i purchased the rxv 667 12 months ago, the thread has sum fantastic info and assistance which has been invaluable to me.

FWIW I had problems initially with my rxv667 paired to my previous sub (Wharfedale sw150), I realised after much frustration and tinkering that although both work faultlessly when tested seperate, it was infact the Yammy YPAO at fault, and that I couldnt totally rely on its auto settings.

I upgraded my sub earlier this year to a BK Gemini 2 and it went thru the YPAO without a single hitch, I just attached the lowline and tinkered with both the 667's and Gemini settings to achieve my listening preferences, 80 crossover on 667 works for me.

I describe myself as an average av person, and i was a little frustrated at the sometimes complex and variable methods for setting and connecting these components together successfully, then again to others more experienced with this kind of thing it must be a walk in the park .

Good luck, and I sincerely hope it isnt infact a Yammy or sub fault.

 

[Jeli]

FWIW I had problems initially with my rxv667 paired to my previous sub (Wharfedale sw150), I realised after much frustration and tinkering that although both work faultlessly when tested seperate, it was infact the Yammy YPAO at fault, and that I couldnt totally rely on its auto settings.
.

Thanks for responding. I see a few of us have now used a wharfedale sub with the Yamaha. Did you ever get decent bass in this setup?

I had to use full gain at sub and +10dB in the Yamaha GUI to get anything out if it. The sub wasn't working hard enough and I had no further settings to play with.

The sub works on an Onkyo perfectly so surely this is an amp issue. If not faulty it's simply not compatible.

 

[dante01]

Thanks for responding. I see a few of us have now used a wharfedale sub with the Yamaha. Did you ever get decent bass in this setup?

I had to use full gain at sub and +10dB in the Yamaha GUI to get anything out if it. The sub wasn't working hard enough and I had no further settings to play with.

The sub works on an Onkyo perfectly so surely this is an amp issue. If not faulty it's simply not compatible.

Are you sure that the sub isn't working and how do you know? The frequencies intended to be produced by a subwoofer are non directional and in a correctly configured setup you shouldn't even be aware of the presence of a subwoofer. The idea is that a subwoofer contributes to the output of the speakers and doesn't become an audio source within its own rights.

How are you actually determining that the sub isn't working?

 

[Jeli]

Are you sure that the sub isn't working and how do you know? The frequencies intended to be produced by a subwoofer are non directional and in a correctly configured setup you shouldn't even be aware of the presence of a subwoofer. The idea is that a subwoofer contributes to the output of the speakers and doesn't become an audio source within its own rights.

How are you actually determining that the sub isn't working?

The sub does output a weak sound. Under YPAO calibration it detects and a very quiet sound is heard. Manual setup it fares no better.

Gain control at sub is meaningless. I have turned it to full with +10dB assigned from the amp. Now I would anticipate a horrible heavy over powering bass upsetting the acoustics... but it doesn't.

BTW the active sub has a 150w amp.

Watching a film with big explosions for example black hawk down is disappointing. You know what should be coming and expect the big deep sound but it fizzles into a quiet dull flat sound.

Some say that's exactly what Yamahas refined sound is like. I'd rather have the sound heard as per the films intentions. If deep bass then that's what I'd like to hear. Close to realistic.

The test with the Onkyo fared better. The gain had better control and the sub was more balanced with the monitor audio front and rears. I know Yamaha and Onkyo are extremely different but with the Yam I may as well leave the sub off.

A shame as I did like all other aspects of the 767. If I can get a deal on a Onkyo 609 I'll be happy as the current problem with the 767 is a show stopper for me.

 

[dante01]

Again,

How are you actually determining that the sub isn't working?

At no point have you explained how you know that the sub isn't performing as it should be with the amp. You cannot quantify its output by ear or by simply playing material you deem to be bass heavy. You need to output a test signal and measure the resulting SPL from your listening position.

The LFE output has no EQ modification as enacted by YPAO so YPAO has no relevance in regards to the output of the subwoofer.

Without measuring the LFE output, you are merely working with ideals of what you expect should be heard and not what should be output in relation to correct calibration. If you really want to get to the bottom of things you'll need an SPL meter.

No, Yamaha do not shape the LFE output to suit their signature sound, they comply with guidelines for home cinema and the LFE level is levelled in relation to those guidelines and the levels as measured in relation to the output of your other speakers as measured from a listening position. Such guidelines do not cater for personal taste or expectations and Yamaha or the amp cannot be blamed if such are not satisfied.

Have you bothered measuring the subwoofer's output with a meter?

 

[Jeli]

Again,




At no point have you explained how you know that the sub isn't performing as it should be with the amp. You cannot quantify its output by ear or by simply playing material you deem to be bass heavy. You need to output a test signal and measure the resulting SPL from your listening position.

The LFE output has no EQ modification as enacted by YPAO so YPAO has no relevance in regards to the output of the subwoofer.

Without measuring the LFE output, you are merely working with ideals of what you expect should be heard and not what should be output in relation to correct calibration. If you really want to get to the bottom of things you'll need an SPL meter.

No, Yamaha do not shape the LFE output to suit their signature sound, they comply with guidelines for home cinema and the LFE level is levelled in relation to those guidelines and the levels as measured in relation to the output of your other speakers as measured from a listening position. Such guidelines do not cater for personal taste or expectations and Yamaha or the amp cannot be blamed if such are not satisfied.

Have you bothered measuring the subwoofer's output with a meter?

Thanks for the advice I have read a number of your replies on this site and always found them informative.

No I haven't used an SPL meter. It's something I'll look into though.

I presume Onkyo comply to the same home cinema guidelines you mention. The difference is remarkable.

It's also not clear to me why the sub gain control does very little.

 

[dante01]

I presume Onkyo comply to the same home cinema guidelines you mention. The difference is remarkable.

It's also not clear to me why the sub gain control does very little.

Yes, but Onkyo also implement bass augmentation which may be why you perceive the greater subwoofer bass than that experienced with the Yamaha? Strictly speaking, using bass augmentation (bass boost) actually over blows the bass and doesn't reproduce it as intended by the sound engineer who mixed and encoded the original material. Comparing the Yamaha to an Onkyo doesn't mean the Yamaha is faulty or incorrect, it just dictates that the Onkyo's bass augmentation better suits your expectation and tastes, be those expectations correct in terms of accepted guideline or not.

I've a feeling that your expectations are influencing your opinion when it comes to whether the Yamaha is faulty or not? It may simply be that your expectations are not catered for by the Yamaha?

I should also mention that much of the realism you are after isn't actually down to the lower frequencies dealt with by a subwoofer. THe punchier low end is delivered by the mid range frequencies delivered via the main speakers.

When comparing the amps did you ensure settings such as crossover were the same? You've not mentioned how you've set up the amp and this can influence the resulting audio you get. Are the speakers defined as small, what crossover are you using and how have you configured the speakers in terms of the subwoofer and shared output?

 

[jonnboyy69]

Thanks for responding. I see a few of us have now used a wharfedale sub with the Yamaha. Did you ever get decent bass in this setup?

I had to use full gain at sub and +10dB in the Yamaha GUI to get anything out if it. The sub wasn't working hard enough and I had no further settings to play with.

The sub works on an Onkyo perfectly so surely this is an amp issue. If not faulty it's simply not compatible.

From what I recall, the Sub did sound flat and underwhelming, i spent an age trying to balance the bass on the sub and felt overall it was not complimenting the soundstage so to speak.
It was only when i purchased the Gemini and heard the difference that i realised that it "may" have been a compatibility issue

regards, John

 

[Jeli]

Yes, but Onkyo also implement bass augmentation which may be why you perceive the greater subwoofer bass than that experienced with the Yamaha? Strictly speaking, using bass augmentation (bass boost) actually over blows the bass and doesn't reproduce it as intended by the sound engineer who mixed and encoded the original material. Comparing the Yamaha to an Onkyo doesn't mean the Yamaha is faulty or incorrect, it just dictates that the Onkyo's bass augmentation better suits your expectation and tastes, be those expectations correct in terms of accepted guideline or not.

I've a feeling that your expectations are influencing your opinion when it comes to whether the Yamaha is faulty or not? It may simply be that your expectations are not catered for by the Yamaha?

I should also mention that much of the realism you are after isn't actually down to the lower frequencies dealt with by a subwoofer. THe punchier low end is delivered by the mid range frequencies delivered via the main speakers.

When comparing the amps did you ensure settings such as crossover were the same? You've not mentioned how you've set up the amp and this can influence the resulting audio you get. Are the speakers defined as small, what crossover are you using and how have you configured the speakers in terms of the subwoofer and shared output?

Reading John's reply above it still seems something isn't right. He has changed his sub woofer and had an instant improvement in sound.

So either

A. The sub is faulty but works with Onkyo but is that the bass augmentation. No I don't think it is.

B. The amp is faulty and seeing as Yamaha tested it would seem not.

C. Compatibilty problem which I personally think there is.

I spent the best part of my week off work trying many settings and cross over ranges. Speakers tried as small and large (with and without extra bass).

Looks like one way or another I'm going to have to take the hit on this. I'm under warranty for sub and amp but if neither are faulty... Where do I stand?

If the 767 returns to me I may have to test with another sub woofer.

 

[Jeli]

Yamaha were quite adamant the 767 was not faulty and within tolerances.

dante01 is a knolwedgeable person but I would still say something was not right. Perhaps just down to compatibility.

I was fortunate that my retailer was reasonable about the situation and I've changed to an Onkyo 609. Everything is now fine