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Fail to the thief

Discussion in 'Music & Music Streaming Services' started by steev, Jun 16, 2003.

  1. steev

    steev
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    I just got my new Radiohead 'CD' from CD-Wow. £8 for the special edition! Good deal I thought.

    Popped it in the PC CD drive and it came up with a window saying I needed to install some software to play it. I cancelled that as I didn't really want to install anything. Windows CD player plays it okay, but my attempt to add it to my MP3 collection (all my own music) failed with Musicmatch.

    There's a box on the back of the packaging saying it's protected with Copy Control technology. Interestingly the usual CD logo is absent. I take it that this protection means that it does not comply with the standard.

    It's a pity that the 'pirates' have spoilt it for those of us who just want to listen to the music in a convenient way. I expect someone will circumvent the protection, even if they just do an analogue sample.

    What's the feeling on this sort of thing?

    --
    Steve
    www.bagofspoons.net
     
  2. captaindobie

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    Steve. I have the UK version of this CD and it does not appear to have the copy protection. Musicmatch will quite happily copy its contents to my hard drive.
    Now, it is my understanding that the record labels are not permitted to use the Compact Disc logo due to the fact that these copy protected discs do not comply with the CD standard. (Philips own the copyright here - i think?)
    Now, on the subject of piracy it seems to me that we are going through the whole 'home taping is killing music' scenario again.
    The record companies are quite simply clueless when it comes to new technology. They fear rather than embrace anything they do not understand. I have had a PC for a little over three years and regulalrly download material (including the new Radiohead album)
    If anything, this has encouraged me to buy more music than ever before. I am not a fan of buying copied cd's from the local flea market etc. as i could probably produce items of superior quality here at home (it is fun coming up with your own track listings and desgining your own cover etc.). However, with this copy protection nonsense, in my opinion, - yes - the record companies are branding us all as (hail to the...) thieves. Quite ridiculous.
    I downloaded the new Radiohead album simply because, being a fan of the band, i wanted to hear it. I own original copies of all their CD's and quite a few singles. I have purchased many items from their website and have paid to go and see them live. No, this doesn't mean they owe me any favours but the record companies would have you believe that everybody who owns a bootlegged version of an album would have gone out and bought the original version if they did not have access to the pirated material. Again, utter nonsense. MP3 and new technology plays a crucial role in spreading music (new & old). Paul McGuinness (U2 manager) was spreading the word back in 1982 - HOME TAPING IS SPREADING MUSIC. This was way before the band had become the mega success they are now. In fact, they even released a cassette version of their 1982 album 'October' with one side completely blank so you could record your own stuff onto...
    So, yes, there are people out there who do need to be stopped as they are making a pretty penny at the artists expense (and the customers) but the blame does not lie at the door of you or i who only want to make some use of our rather large hard drives and organise our music collections, and occasionally burn a copy of a cd for a mate.
    Rant over!
     
  3. steev

    steev
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    Captain,

    Is your's the Special Edition? Mine is, but says UK under the barcode, despite coming via Hong Kong. It was made in the EU, so it's well travelled.

    We all know of individuals who are permanently downloading anything they can, just because they can. It's not always to save money, sometimes it's more convenient to download than to go to the shops or order on-line.

    Personally I've never played much with 'file sharing' except to grab some bootlegs and other material that's not generally available. And I like having the actual CDs etc.

    At some point the music industry is going to have to change their tactics to match the new environment we live in.

    --
    Steve
    www.bagofspoons.net
     
  4. captaindobie

    captaindobie
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    Just checked. Catalogue number is 5848052
    Barcode :724358480528
    Is says printed in the EU
    This is the special edition of the album that unfolds into a poster of sorts.
    Again, i am like you and use the internet to download rare/remixed and unreleased tracks. This is where the record companies could make a killing by making all those old b-sides and rare tracks that they have available in their huge vaults available for download.
     
  5. steev

    steev
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    Sounds like the same edition, but my barcode is 7243 5 84808 2 5. Did you mis-type?

    Anyway, it has a blurb on the back about the copy protection. I was using MM 7.2, but have just upgraded to 8 to see if it makes a difference. It's trying to rip at the moment, but failed again in the 'fast' mode and has reverted to 'audio'. Doesn't look like that has worked. First track appears as 10 minutes of silence again :(

    Ho hum. Never mind. I shall listen to it in the car on the way home.

    --
    Steve
     
  6. karkus30

    karkus30
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    I noticed that more and more companies are putting music downloads on line and are charging a monthly rate or a fee per song. Even EMI have started and are to put 90% of their back catalog on line.

    The competition in this sector will soon hot up and we shall all be able to burn music for a small fee, knowing we are not subjected to viruses and loops.

    I now buy 90% of my CDs on line and this is where I think most of the genuine cds will be bought, probably the only way to get SACD and DVD A will be through on line specialists.

    And what about the high St retailer. Here we are talking about the major outlets such as HMV and Virgin, plus a number of small chains and independents. I dont think the future looks too rosy for them, well not in their present format. They can continue for a while, selling DVDs and Games, but they either need to become far more competitive or start offering specials ie cut price gig tickets, posters , books etc with every sale.
     
  7. Azrikam

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    Just me, but I wouldn't buy any copy protected CD. And if I bought one by mistake, I would return it at the first opportunity, citing the copy protection as the reason for doing so.

    If consumers don't trash this technology, it'll soon become standard and you can forget the convenience of listening to music on your PC without a load of hassle.
     
  8. Squirrel God

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    Note that it has been the case in the past that only a PROPORTION of CDs for a particular album are copy protected. This was certainly the case with Natalie Imbruglia's last album where whether you got a copy-protected one or not was down to pot luck. I recall Watchdog or some programme like that interviewing people on the street as they walked out of Virgin, HMV and Tower Records. Some had a copy protected one, some didn't - none where any the wiser as to whether they did or not until the 'Cactus' term was pointed out to them (as that was the only indicator on that CD).

    My copy of Hail to the Thief SE (cd-wow) is copy protected and the barcode is 724358480825.

    Copy protection is a pain for sure, and an unnecessary one at that. The record companies would sell more CDs without it. Just the other night I wanted to send a friend a few samples from an album but I couldn't as the bloody CD was copy-protected. There are ways around it, but I just couldn't be bothered. He would have bought the album if he'd heard how good it was.

    Worst thing is, even if you do install the program that's on the CD to listen to it via your CD-ROM, it sounds CACK - it's like you're listening to a 128Kbps version or something :rolleyes:


    BTW, anyone else think the foldout pack is utter poo? I wish I'd bought the regular edition now in a NORMAL BLOODY CD JEWEL CASE :mad: This bit of paper it comes with is not only stupid but will scratch the CD before long :mad:
     
  9. Ian Cox

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    I have two albums now that are copy protected, Hail to the thief and the new Turin Brakes album. It is a real pain as I have got a MP3 player that I rip all my CD's on to and with this copy protection rubbish it hurts people like us who want to copy for genuine reasons. I have found though my CDRW drive will not read the copy protected CD's at all but if I pop them into the my LG DVD drive then it reads the CD's fine and I can copy them, so that is how good this new copy protection system is - utter rubbish.

    Yes it is complete rubbish, it does not even look that special and you can not store it with your normal CD's as it is only a little bit smaller than the size of a DVD case.:mad:
     
  10. Azrikam

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    If I was a real cynic, I might think the reason for that is this is so that they can say, "The new Radiohead album is copy protected, and we've only had a few complaints and returns. The album is selling magnificently, so consumers must be ok with buying copy-protected CDs. Now give us back our CD logo before we shoot your children."

    Nevermind that only a small percentage of those who bought the album actually ended up with copy-protected CDs.
     
  11. Squirrel God

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    I'm sure there is some truth in that Azrikam. Although not putting the copy protection on in the first place would be best of course :D

    I think most record companies will replace a copy protected version for you anyway.
     
  12. tomson

    tomson
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    No problems with this CD on my mac - ripped it to mp3 and then to my ipod without a hitch.
     
  13. Squirrel God

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    You don't have a copy protected one then.
     
  14. tomson

    tomson
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    oh yes I do.
     
  15. Squirrel God

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    How do you know? :D
     
  16. tomson

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    Well it says copy controlled on the packaging so i was presuming it was present - but just re-reading your above post i guess it might not be...?


    (damn quick reply btw!)
     
  17. Squirrel God

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    I dunno mate, I wouldn't put it past them to use the same packaging though :D I was hoping you were gonna say that you'd tried it on a PC and it didn't play though :(

    Any chance you can give it a spin on a PC? If the copy protection doesn't work with Macs, it'd be handy info to know :devil:
     
  18. tomson

    tomson
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    Yeah i can take it into work tomorrow and give it a go . It'd be handy to know if it is the case that macs manage to get round it - i've never had a problem with any other disk either... but i seem to remember a post about a QOTSA (or was it the foos?) disk giving a mac some jip.
     
  19. Squirrel God

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    Nice one, will await your next post with baited breath :smashin:
     
  20. The_Curmudgeon

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    Greetings. About the packaging being crap, agreed, but hey, according to NME in a few weeks they could be going for £80 a throw. Believe it or not.

    Anyway, I must admit to being totally surprised by the new album. I bought it just out of, well, loyalty I suppose, but I didn't expect to actually enjoy it (when was the last time Radiohead made a record you could, you know, like?) But what's this? I not only listened to it once, I actually played it again straight after. Blim.
     
  21. tomson

    tomson
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    OK, now I might have forgotten to do this. I'll see if i can hijack a PC sometime today and give it a shot.
     
  22. Wilf

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    The copy protection definately doesn't work on Macs. I had the same problem trying to get the new massive attack CD onto my MP3 player. A Mac solved the problem straight away. There is a use for the very expensive, nice looking doorstops
     
  23. Squirrel God

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    Well there you have it then! Groovy! :smoke:
     
  24. tomson

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    Apparently the Natalie Umbru...Umbrew, that bird from Neighbours anyway - her CD caused problems on quite a few macs a while back.
     
  25. Squirrel God

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    Hhhmmm, I guess it depends which CP they are using then. The Imbruglia :D one was Cactus IIRC.
     
  26. mattruston

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    the thing that everyone seems to be forgetting is that this cd copy protection rubbish actually reduces the bandwidth available for songs, thus decreasing the quality of the music. Which to me is utterly criminal. We might as well go back to buying LP's. I use my NET MD (mini disc player that can play mp3's.) to listen to songs and i have my 5 gigs or so of albums all on my pc for this sole purpose. Now if i wanted to buy an album and found it was copy protected i would just download that album from the internet, illegally or no, so i could listen to it on my minidisc walkman. Thats really a case of the RIAA shooting themselves in the foot for me. :eek:

    They are totally clueless and out of their depth. Well thats my tuppence worth anyways.
    Ciao
     
  27. Squirrel God

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    Tracks on a CD are not like MP3s or MPEG-2 DVDs were the bitrate and/or sample rate can be varied to fit more into a limited data space. The bitrate and sample rate are fixed for CD - 44.1 kHz sample rate, 16 bits per sample, so for stereo that's 2 x 16 x 44,100 = 1,411,200 bps. The copy protection takes up the spare space on a CD.

    Regarding LPs, many will argue that LPs can reproduce a sound that is much more faithful to the original than a CD can, since LPs are analogue.
     
  28. Azrikam

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    They love this, because they get paid twice. Once, when you buy the CD. And a second time, when they sue you for £18 Million. :D
     
  29. mattruston

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    lol

    i'm good for about... 20p!!! :D

    take it all you merciless, fu***rs! lol

    wring me dry like a blood-stained tea-towel:devil:
     

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