Hi I was just in my local panasonic shop on London Road, Brighton and they have the Panasonic E20 refurb'd on sale for £399 inc VAT. Has firewire and essentially the same as the E30 except for the specified length of the VBR according to the salesmen. Not sure if this is a local price or for all Panasonic shops or the other sellers too. Mark mod edit: Post moved. Should be in AV Hardware special offers.