Facial Recognition - what’s the problem?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by The Dreamer, May 21, 2019.

  1. The Dreamer

    The Dreamer
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    I really don’t get it. What is the problem with facial recognition software being used to identify ne’er-do-wells?

    If you’re not guilty of anything, why should you care that you have been tracked? If you are mis-identified, resulting in a few questions from the boys in blue, what’s the beef?

    Maybe it’s just me, and the way I’ve become desensitised about going through security checks on a daily basis - but honestly, I don’t get the whole ‘invasion of privacy’ thing.

    If the (admittedly imperfect) technology helps catch more bad guys, I’m all for it!

    Thoughts?
     
  2. mjn

    mjn
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    Cos it doesn’t work?
     
  3. The Dreamer

    The Dreamer
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    Well sure, it creates false positives - but I still don’t get the problem (the technology will mature) - as a quick word face to face would soon resolve any issues.

    I’ve been stopped by the police a few times in my car, for no other reason than it was a strange time of day to be where I was (wee hours of the morning before starting work at 04:30, that type of thing), and it has never bothered me - in fact, I quite like the idea, as if someone had nicked my car, I’d want them to be stopped!

    So false positives, I have absolutely no issue with - it’s all for ‘the greater good!’ (Insert Hot Fuzz meme here)!:D
     
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  4. Chillie6

    Chillie6
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    Your wish is my command

    93847AE0-DE90-426B-9292-D7D5EFA5899A.jpeg
     
  5. davidjohnson

    davidjohnson
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    Tell that to the poor sods who live here!

    house_1859760c.jpg
     
  6. MrFraggle

    MrFraggle
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    For a start it is not just the police that are using this technology, I only caught a bit of a recent TV programme on the subject but I am sure it said that a private company was using it and giving the data to the police.
    But this old argument of if you have nothing to hide, blah blah blah so you would be happy for the authorities to come and rootle about your house, your possessions in fact any part if your life because after all you gave nothing to hide right?
     
  7. Over by there

    Over by there
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    Lack of protection for the innocent at the moment. After a news story I saw, if I walk past one of these and cover my face up I get pulled and fined?

    I think the political push is to lower police numbers and they have not worked out how to control it properly.
    Shopper challenges facial recognition surveillance
     
  8. wongataa

    wongataa
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    It really isn't an invasion of privacy. No one has an expectation of privacy when out in public. This argument against the technology is bunk. There are other good arguments against the system though, often in relation to who controls the database of images and what sort of oversight is there.
    Well it isn't very good at that as the success rate is rather low.
     
  9. Over by there

    Over by there
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    As I understand it. It is the biometric map it uses and stores. GDPR I hear has some cover for it and this is where it will trip up. I expect that at the moment the government are running a bit wide of the mark until pulled on it.
     
  10. nheather

    nheather
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    It works pretty well actually - I've seen demos of picking out persons of interest in a football stadium.

    It's like the National ID thing to.

    It would address a lot of issues that we currently have, plenty of countries, including repspected liberal ones have ID systems.

    But the UK always pampers to the few. As soon as the government comes up with an idea it gets trashed when a handful of bleeding heart liberals come up with "what about this really obscure and unlikely edge case". And then the whole idea gets shelfed costing the taxpayer millions for nothing.

    Most of the idiots that oppose such things, whine about their privacy at the same time publishing every intimate detail of their lives of social media.

    Cheers,

    Nigel
     
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  11. Over by there

    Over by there
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    Does not mean that the government should work outside any restrictions no matter what people go stick on facebook (but yeah, sort of agree). I like the idea of this but want it run correctly.

    Edit. Part of the reason I want to see this run correctly and above board is not to see some lawyer get someone off who should be behind bars and on the flip side, not to see someone get stitched up who is innocent.
     
  12. maddy

    maddy
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    You're wrong there, as I have an expectation of privacy when out in public. When I'm out going about my lawful business I don't expect the state to be scanning my face and identifying where I am and at what time. It's a massive invasion of privacy.
     
  13. outoftheknow

    outoftheknow
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    Just to aid discussion - for those that expect privacy in public, why don’t you see CCTV as an invasion of privacy? ANPR and traffic cameras track “you” so why isn’t that a problem? People can identify you by your face, clothing etc in public when you aren’t doing anything “wrong” - they like the cameras don’t call the cops unless they see you doing something “wrong”.

    If being in public is private, why don’t we all accept people doing things in public that are private?

    The gate is open on privacy in public and the escaped horse has died of old age IMHO.

    I’m on the side of needing controls but generally agree I’m not fanatically opposed to the tech and it’s use for defined things.
     
  14. hippo99

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  15. The Dreamer

    The Dreamer
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    Totally different (though if they have reasonable cause to want to take a look around the house, they're more than welcome - but I can't think what that'd be) - as we're talking about being out and about in 'public' as opposed to being in a private (home, say) environment.

    Agreed.

    Again, agreed - and then there are those that are trying to stay off the radar to conduct their nefarious activities.

    Can't argue with any of that.

    Sorry, but I don't think that's right IMHO. You are either in a private situation, or a public one - you can't have any/many expectations of privacy whilst in 'public'. The one exception I can think of, off the top of my head would be protection of minors. But as an adult, where's the harm in 'the authorities' looking for baddies?

    Do I think there should be strong guidelines for it's use, and the use of the data (particularly with the data held on 'non-matched' subjects)? Absolutely. But to say that our 'guardians' can't take your picture because it'll hurt your feelings is.... I'm struggling to find the words here.... but I think it's a form of paranoia!
     
  16. outoftheknow

    outoftheknow
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    Not questioning the principle but does that (the tech is only good for whites people) mean that holders (that aren’t white) of passports that can use the electronic entry into countries have a disproportionate number of referrals to a person? The camera is pretty close so I suppose the technology at a distance should get better?
     
  17. The Dreamer

    The Dreamer
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    Don't know about that - my son is only half-white, and has never had a problem using his e-passport, despite the picture of him being several years old now - it may be a different technology in use from the passport stuff?
     
  18. outoftheknow

    outoftheknow
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    That’s what I meant :) it seems to work at close range. It is measuring distances from facial features so in principles it is “the same technology” AFAIK.
     
  19. wongataa

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    Anyone can see you in a public place. Anyone can take a photo of you in a public place. In a public place you are fully on view to anyone in the same area. This is not a private place. You cannot expect privacy in a public place where you are visible to the world.

    The Police taking a photo of you in a public place is not an invasion of privacy. To be honest in many public places you are already captured on various cameras. CCTV is everywhere.

    The issues with facial recognition used by the Police has far better arguments against.
     
  20. maddy

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    CCTV is not hooked into an automated facial recognition system which tries to identify who I am, and then store where I am and when I'm there. Frankly, if I'm going about my lawful business then it's none of the police's business who I am.
     
  21. hippo99

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    This explains the difference between CCTV and facial recognition.
    Shopper challenges facial recognition surveillance
    Would these be useful to hackers if the data fell into the wrong hands?
     
  22. hippo99

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    Say when Donald Trump comes for his UK state visit, how would people feel about the Police using facial recognition on all of the people that come out for a peaceful protest against him?

    Nothing to hide, but it doesn't feel right to me.
     
  23. wongataa

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    See, your issues aren't with being photographed at all. it is to do what's done with, who stores those images, and what they are used for. Nothing to do with privacy, all to do with proper oversight, regulation, and use of image databases.
     
  24. wongataa

    wongataa
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    Possibly. Data security is a big issue in all sorts of things.
     
  25. maddy

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    No, I don't want to be captured on CCTV either but unfortunately that ship has sailed.

    My point is simple - if I'm going about my lawful business then it's not the business of the state to know about it.
     
  26. nheather

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    First let me state that I have no problem with facial recognition. But let me explain what the privacy complaint is (again I don't agree with it). True, taking a picture in a public place is not an invasion of privacy - but to do facial recognition means that you must have photos and biometric algorithms of that person in a database. The concern is over what data they store - is it just for people that have been found guilty and people that are wanted - or does it include everyone that the Police might have had dealings with.

    Cheers,

    Nigel
     
  27. Over by there

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    Everyone wear an orange wig and orange skin cream.
     
  28. nvingo

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    On the other hand, captured and stored facial recognition tracks could provide an alibi, or eliminate you from enquiries before you even know you might have been suspected.
     
  29. wongataa

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    This needs to be clarified & regulated.
     
  30. hippo99

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    Why not make everyone in the UK wear an electronic tag, so Police can always monitor exactly where everyone is every minute of the day, and thus eliminate you as a suspect from enquiries before you even know you might have been suspected? ;)
     

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