Facial coverings

When In Rome

Distinguished Member
Mandatory on public transport we were told some weeks ago.

It is law, I've checked.

I use buses a lot and can tell you that of the two companies in town, one was particularly stringent after the first week when the legislation was passed.

No mask, no travel.

The other one I have to say is an awful organisation anyway BUT, they were following suit and challenging passengers attempting to board without a mask.

Two weeks ago on a bus of the first company I mentioned, the driver was about 25 and letting on youths without masks without question.

Then yesterday, on a bus of the second bus company in question, I became aware of just how few people on the bus had facial coverings.

So I counted. Me and two others out of sixteen at the stage of the journey I counted. Somethings gone very wrong here I thought and on alighting and putting the query to the lady driver, I was about to find out.

She said that she was only paid to drive the bus and was not a uniformed police officer.

That's funny, I though, you don't see many police officers on the buses.

But if its law you should be challenging people not wearing masks, I countered, otherwise what is the point of having legislation if people are just going to flout it?

She went on to say that their policy is that they cannot challenge customers whereas two weeks ago they most certainly were so I can see that this whole thing is being made a mockery of and is NONSENSE!

As the government has belatedly decided that, you know, wearing masks is actually a sensible idea, they are now proposing that facial coverings will be compulsory in stores.

I will abide by that and will continue to mask up on public transport in defiance but more so because I would like to be doing the right thing in helping us control this horrible virus!

Compulsory. How long will that be enforced by shop staff oblique security guards? Like on the buses? Undoubtedly give it a couple of weeks and just like Clap For Carers and most other things in Britain, the word IS - yeah, that's a good idea, I'm down for that" - two weeks on and it's all forgotten about - we just seem to give up!

Come on, small wonder we never win anything!
 

mikeysthoughts

Well-known Member
The reason transport workers have stopped challenging is because their employers have said that it is not their place to police compliance with the law.

The reason their employers have said that is because many transport workers were finding themselves facing very aggressive and entitled members of the public who would be physically and verbally abusive when challenged.

It was only a matter of time before something like this happened.

Bus driver murdered by passengers who refused to wear masks.

So please don't give grief to the people who are doing their jobs the best they can in difficult circumstances. Challenge the morons who refuse to wear masks on public transport.
 

realfrankturner

Well-known Member
I don't blame the drivers for not challenging it, putting themselves in a potentially dangerous situation because some people are idiots. Be the same for shop workers too.

And even if say it's down to the police to police it I am not sure how that works tbh unless there happens to be someone nearby you call out to. A bus driver isn't going to call the police and keep a busful of people who have somewhere to get to waiting.

You have to rely on people not being selfish idiots, which should't be too much to ask for!

Here in London it's been the same regarding the masks when I have been out, hardly anyone wearing them or wearing them to get on and then taking them off.
 

usako

Member
Why even wearing one if your nose is completely free. But make wearing a mask law, don’t police it at every shop, train, bus... Just stop single random people where you can assume they’re having a credit card and make them pay £1000 on the spot fine as the Swiss police is doing it with mobile card readers for traffic offences.

8B9E0592-A7B9-4345-9121-08F764F74337.jpeg
CC05E299-C83E-4D33-B435-FF8B72675F3C.jpeg
 

BigA1

Active Member
People are absolute fudgeing dicks. Refuse to pay on the bus... they're not police men, they can't enforce the law...

Bus companies would soon change their tune then and make stringent new rules or put measures in place to enforce them.
 

gavinhanly

Distinguished Member
I would say the bus drivers need to treat it like non payment/ fare dodging. They know when it's safe to challenge in those circumstances - or just refuse to drive off.

But as above - you really need to target the companies. If they have a policy that says they won't challenge mask wearers, then you target them with fines. Then they'll find a way to make it work.
 

mikeysthoughts

Well-known Member
But as above - you really need to target the companies. If they have a policy that says they won't challenge mask wearers, then you target them with fines. Then they'll find a way to make it work.
Not true.

The government regulates public transport in this country.

The non-challenging guidance comes from the government. Specifically the DfT.

If the bus drivers stopped their buses due to passengers not wearing masks the bus companies would end up with an increase in assaults on staff and also be fined by government for running services late.

Stop blaming the key workers on the front line and direct your anger at those who are actually responsible for failing to give police enough resources to enforce the regulations, ie. the government.
 

Ono

Well-known Member
I travelled on the London Tube for the first time in ages yesterday.

About 30% did not have masks.
A handful with masks took off to talk on phone.
A handful with masks did not cover their nose.

The female beggar walked through the carriage with no mask.

They should just not let people pass the barriers at stations.
 

Miss Mandy

Moderator
In my opinion it is not up to bus drivers, train staff, shop workers, or other similar staff to apply the law. Its not fair to expect these often low paid workers to challenge people when doing so could put them on the receiving end of verbal or physical abuse.
The general public have got to take some responsibility for themselves and follow the law, instead of getting upset at the drivers for not enforcing it get upset at the members of the public that aren't doing what they should be.
 

Tight Git

Distinguished Member
Andrew Marr asked this very question this morning and Michael Gove said he would relay on the commonsense and decency of the British public to do the right thing.

Yeah, right... :facepalm:
 

gavinhanly

Distinguished Member
Not true.

The government regulates public transport in this country.

The non-challenging guidance comes from the government. Specifically the DfT.

If the bus drivers stopped their buses due to passengers not wearing masks the bus companies would end up with an increase in assaults on staff and also be fined by government for running services late.

Stop blaming the key workers on the front line and direct your anger at those who are actually responsible for failing to give police enough resources to enforce the regulations, ie. the government.
I've been in plenty of buses where the drivers have refused to drive off when someone hasn't paid. There's also the option of not opening the doors if the first person in the queue to the door isn't wearing a mask.

And note - I'm not saying that it's the drivers' responsibility for bringing this in, but for TFL and other companies to bring in sensible regulations. And to add better policing of it too, of course.
 

Mevlock

Member
I run a fish and chip shop.

We are extremely busy, we are working flat out right now just to take enough money to hopefully see us through the winter months without going bust.

We've already taken as many steps as we can to keep both our employees and customers safe. It's extremely challenging right now, both myself and my wife are working 12 hours shifts.

If we can't make it work it means the business we've built up over 20 years goes and we run the risk of losing our home and jobs.

I have no problem with customers being told by the government they have to wear masks to enter our premises. But that itself will cause problems, I'll probably have to drill airholes in the huge screens we've already installed for the staffs safety, its already hard to hear the customers.

The idea that we could police mask wearing is, quite frankly, absurd. Especially since there will be a list of exceptions.

It would result in arguments, time lost. Disgruntled customers. Possible violence.

Not something I'm willing to subject my staff to. Including my 16 year old daughter.

In Scotland the shop owners aren't responsible. It's up to the police to pull people about it.

Other countries have managed to get this right, we can too.

Edit: Just to add I live in a quite spaced out smallish town up in Northumberland where the rate of infection is pretty low. Yet lots of people come in already with a mask on and even walk around town now with them. I think more people are doing the responsible thing. We wear ours when going to do our bulk shopping. Though not when just popping into the local Nisa, Tesco express or for takeaway coffees. It's easy to social distance doing that. But I'm thinking about wearing one regardless now.
 
Last edited:

mikeysthoughts

Well-known Member
They should just not let people pass the barriers at stations.
Those that have tried to do this have been subjected to verbal abuse and physical violence.

Some have died as a result. See my link above. There was also the rail worker at Victoria who was spat on for challenging someone. They later died of COVID.
 

Lee

Moderator
I've a mate who is a bus driver in Birmingham and we had a chat about people not wearing face masks on the buses and he said there is no way he will be telling people to wear them because he values his life. I'm afraid the city is jam packed with people who would stab you for a penny.
 

krish

Distinguished Member
I've noticed a fair amount of people - all young, including young parents with kids - maskless on both bus and tube. Perhaps it's more of an outer London thing, as I'm in north-west London, Zone 6, and it was only local TfL travel, with the Tube to Watford, which isn't even London.
 

fat jez

Distinguished Member
I've a mate who is a bus driver in Birmingham and we had a chat about people not wearing face masks on the buses and he said there is no way he will be telling people to wear them because he values his life. I'm afraid the city is jam packed with people who would stab you for a penny.
I have every sympathy for your mate. It’s become a sad reflection on society that so many people feel they don’t have to comply with the law and who know they will get away with it and for whom a violent or aggressive response is the norm.
 

gavinhanly

Distinguished Member
Some have died as a result. See my link above. There was also the rail worker at Victoria who was spat on for challenging someone. They later died of COVID.
While I understand the risks of challenging people, this was not the case in this instance. She was approached by the person in question, she didn't challenge them.
 

brunation

Well-known Member

mikeysthoughts

Well-known Member
While I understand the risks of challenging people, this was not the case in this instance. She was approached by the person in question, she didn't challenge them.
Iai think​
it adequately demonstrates the risk of dealing with the public, some of whom are unhinged. She was spat on without even challenging them! What might someone like that have done if she had prevented him travelling.​

The point is that we shouldn't put pressure on front line workers to do things that put them directly at risk any more than is absolutely necessary.

The secondary point is that if you want to put pressure on organisations to change then you need to direct your efforts to the DfT and wider government. The transport companies work under their orders and guidelines, and they have said that transport staff do not have to challenge the public to wear a face covering.
 

Ono

Well-known Member
Some have died as a result. See my link above. There was also the rail worker at Victoria who was spat on for challenging someone. They later died of COVID.
This is where we need BT Police around.

Wasn't the spitting from Victoria Station proven to be false reporting:

 

mikeysthoughts

Well-known Member
This is where we need BT Police around.
Yep, completely agree, but they are a finite resource and there are many thousands of stations and bus stops in the UK. Unless you want fares to go up to pay for more BTP to police almost every bus, train, tram, etc. Which would put even more people off traveling on public transport.

Wasn't the spitting from Victoria Station proven to be false reporting:
I stand corrected on that one. Perhaps it was only coughing or some verbals rather than spitting.
 
It’s a crazy world when people can’t even challenge someone to stick with the rules. It’s just a challenge to wear the mask. Not wearing one endangers the driver and passengers as well. Not challenging it just re enforces the not wearing of one.
 

Ono

Well-known Member
This is where the Asian countries have a huge advantage. It is just socially drilled into Japan, Korea, HK and Singapore to follow rules.

I often use littering, particularly on the Underground systems as a comparison. Their metros are spotless.
 

mikeysthoughts

Well-known Member
It is just socially drilled into Japan, Korea, HK and Singapore to follow rules.
The same HK that has had riots and social unrest for a year now?

I personally laud the efforts to resist Chinese rule, but not the best example of following rules!

There are many examples where the social drilling to follow rules has led to negative outcomes, but we're at risk of going off topic.
 

The latest video from AVForums

Podcast: Home AV, TV, Tech News & Reviews, Plus The Best of July 2020

Latest News

McIntosh and Sonus faber unite under Fine Sounds Distribution in UK
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
JBL launches 4349 Studio Monitor
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
LG Display next generation OLEDs showcased at SID 2020
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
AVForums Podcast: 2nd August 2020
  • By Phil Hinton
  • Published
Top Bottom