F8 oculus tech, finger tracking and new dev kit hmd

Discussion in 'VR Virtual Reality Forum' started by MikeKay1976, May 2, 2018.

  1. MikeKay1976

    MikeKay1976
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    knuckles needs to launch sooner rather than later imo if it wants to be at all relevant

    Oculus progress on developing gloveless finger tracking for VR • r/oculus



    but this is what interests me. 140 degree fov and eye tracking... yes please!
    Oculus Reveals 140 Degree VR Headset Prototype with Varifocal Displays

    (yes on paper the pimax owns it in the FOV stakes but i have always said a 130-150 fov i would take over 200 degree, for multiple reasons.

    other little teasers

    high quality markerless body tacking running from a single RGB camera and smartphone CPU (which sounds cool to me)
    facial expression tracking from a camera attached to the nose gap (which personally i am not fussed about.

    but hey, oculus have abandoned high end vr in favour of souped up cardboard right? ;)
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2018
  2. Atmos

    Atmos
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    Adding moving parts to a headset is a mistake imo. Not only does it increase cost but it’s reliabilty will be called into question. I honestly don’t see the point. The woman in the demonstration talks about 2m but if I hold a controller to my face I don’t see a problem.

    If Pimax get their lenses right I don’t see this Oculus HMD being any better to be honest. The Pimax 8k will be a lot wider and cheaper to produce.

    As for the hand tracking. Wasn’t Leap Motion doing hand tracking like 2 years ago? Now Oculus are still working on it with gloves and markers?

    Pimax are in a great position here and I’m still glad I backed the Kickstarter.
     
  3. MikeKay1976

    MikeKay1976
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    How did I know you would think it was rubbish / inferior :p

    As I understand it they are looking at gloveless tracking and any gloves if they released would be for hapatics . I am not 100% sure. I am unsure about the moving part too That said given it will be oculus having to pay for warranty replacements .... I am sure they have done their homework and they know what they are doing.
    I think the 8k looks good too...the CV2 is just going for different priorities and for me CV2 excites me more ..... But consumer choice is good. For me it was a great announcement however and surely mustsilence the (imo ludicrous) claims that oculus no longer care about high end vr or innovation
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2018
  4. Atmos

    Atmos
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    One particular member on another forum has been telling me for two years how companies should drop Lighthouse because it has moving parts and too expensive to manufacture o er Constellation. Now Oculus are adding moving parts to the HMD to fix a problem I never knew existed and he thinks it’s great. I’m sorry but we live in a world where anything Pimax or HTCdo is bad but when Oculus do similar it’s suddenly amazeballs.

    If I had the choice between a perfect 200FOV with perfect lenses or a HMD with 140FOV and perfect varifocal I would pick 200FOV regardless of company.

    If Oculus are on a 3-4 year upgrade cycle you can bet Pimax will have an upgrade in 1-2 years.

    Nothing against Oculus but they just have different priorities to me.
     
  5. MikeKay1976

    MikeKay1976
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    This has nothing to do with what other people have said, & this isn’t the oculus forum!. (light house is expensive and it IS better to have as few moving parts as possible - if this was not true then lighthouse 2.0 would not have been such good news. But that does not mean there should never be moving parts in a device. sometimes they are a necessary evil if you like.

    Until anyone launches a product with a perfect 200 degree FOV or perfect lenses then your argument is moot. there is no such product right now. maybe there will be in 6 months, maybe not, time will tell. IF the pimax 8k is such a product then it will be interesting when it goes head to head with CV2 and the vive pro but right now the only producd pimax have successfully launched does not even have 6DOF tracking, and they have not even nailed down the specs for their development hmd yet (hence they are already reducing the specs of the refresh rate. (neither have oculus of course all their dev stuff is subject to change)

    The last hands on video i saw of the pimax 8k the user complained that the light house tracking was not as good as expected, certainly not on a par with the vive. (this was a while back and may have been fixed)
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2018
  6. ArmitageShanks

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    Have they actually announced a new headset for the PC then?
     
  7. MikeKay1976

    MikeKay1976
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    its a dev kit..... like crescent bay and crystal cove (which became CV1 and DK2)...... It isnt a standalone device (though one would imagine some of the tech may make it into them one day)

    That said, i just read this and it has peed on my chips somewhat.

    natemitchellHead of Rift 249 points 12 hours ago

    Maria covered a bunch of areas of long term research for us. This is just a peek into some feature prototypes we’ve been working on. However, don’t expect to see all of these technologies in a product anytime soon.


    So this would seemingly go against what i have been thinking....... My hope is this is just trying to reel in folk a bit and stop actual sales of CV1 from crashing....

    It still confirms oculus are massively invested in high end VR, however unfortunately seems to refute that it may be a devkit which may see light of day any time soon.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2018
  8. Atmos

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    No they’re still at early prototype stage. I would say they’re 18 months away.

    Pimax 8k could be finalised this month. Ready to ship in two.

    The problem for Oculus is once 200FOV is released its going to be hard to go back to 140FOV. Not only that but how many people buy by the numbers like 4K TVs over 2K even if they can’t see s difference?

    Varifocal lenses might be cool but can I live without it? In all the talk about resolution FOV and sweet spot I never heard of anyone complain about blurred objects less than 2 meters away.

    CV2 could be in real trouble.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2018
  9. MikeKay1976

    MikeKay1976
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    yep just like CV1 was dead with the creation of knuckles....... which if memory serves you told us would be out by April 2017 was it?, and the pimax 8k would be out to the kickstarters by Jan 2018

    one day Atmos you will be right..... Oculus will go under.......just like one day those people predicting the end of the world will also be right and sooner or later even the most pessimistic hypochondriac will be bang on the money. Until then however.................
     
  10. Atmos

    Atmos
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    Oculus survived because they slashed the price of the Rift and undercut HTC by hundreds and gave numerous exclusives away for free.

    But since then FO4, DoomVFR and Skyrim appeared on Steam and the Vive dropped to a more competitive £499. In April the Vive regained market share exactly as I said it would.

    When prices are equal Vive sells best.

    These are the facts.

    Roll on Knuckles, be it Valve, HTC or Pimax. They’re coming.
     
  11. ArmitageShanks

    ArmitageShanks
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    It's all very well and good showing research prototypes, but unless they actually have something heading towards a consumer prototype this is all just the usual Oculus fluff and no substance. There are plenty of VR-related companies touting potential technologies but never actually bring anything to market.

    If Oculus can actually say "here's what will be going into Rift 2" I'll sit up and take notice.
     
  12. MikeKay1976

    MikeKay1976
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    hang on.... if you think that hmd was unimpressive then fair enough, to each their own.... but like them or hate them, oculus HAVE delivered on their products.

    afaik every device they have currently shown at a live event like in the OP has made it out into the real world..... Crystal Cove, Crescent bay, the oculus touch and most recently GO.... They are also pretty upfront as well, we all knew the limits of oculus go long before it launched.

    If oculus have shown their ability to do anything it is to deliver the product that they show off on stage. At this point the burdon of proof imo is to prove that they are shills not that they are not.


    the same is not so true of pimax imo = tho i hope that may change in the next 6 months = and even valve have a very spotty history of showing hardware and then it taking eons to actually see it released on the market. (and i am not just talking about knuckles here either, remember the steam machines and how long they took to actually come out).
     
  13. Atmos

    Atmos
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    The fact Oculus only showed videos of prototypes tells you a lot. Pimax has had a working prototype the at various roadshows for well over 6 months and people were impressed.

    If you’re prepared to wait for CV2 that fair enough Mike, but I’m sure I’ll have 12 months use out of my Primax 8k in the meantime.

    12 months of 200FOV - there’s no going back.
     
  14. Presuming Ed

    Presuming Ed
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    Facts eh? Evidence?
     
  15. Atmos

    Atmos
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    [​IMG]
     
  16. Presuming Ed

    Presuming Ed
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    Oh for goodness sake. you're undermining yourself and everything you've said.

    That pretty picture shows how many people, who happened to be using the Steam service, accepted an invitation to have a hardware study done and happened to have an active HMD at the time the study was done.

    While some will draw conslusions from it and will offer opinions based on it, IT DOES NOT IN ANY WAY PROVIDE ANY INFORMATION ON SALES FIGURES.

    So you don't have any evidence then, and you're just bandying around your biased, fanboy opinions as facts?

    Stop it with the hate. It's tiring.
     
  17. Atmos

    Atmos
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    Omg mate get off your high horse. You asked for facts and evidence of how price affects sales. I never said I had sales figures.

    I provided evidence from Valves Steam Survey showing how since the Vive dropped to £499 market share went up.

    To me that is factual evidence.

    If you dont agree with it fair enough but don’t accuse me of hating Oculus based off Valves data. Thanks.
     
  18. Tiger Feet

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    I love the Vive, Vive Pro, Rift, Primax equally :rotfl: Peace & Love.




    When I say equally I mean Oculus rules.

    ;)
     
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  19. Presuming Ed

    Presuming Ed
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    Yes you did. You said that Vive sells best when prices are equal and said this was a fact. Are you now saying this is not a fact?


    That picture does not provide any evidence of market share.

    I don't care what your opinions are, but I care when you present your opinons as facts, when they are clearly unsubstantiated and without foundation.
     
  20. Atmos

    Atmos
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    If you dismiss the Steam Survey as non factual and not displaying market share there’s no point answering any of your points. Do you think Valve put out data with no basis what so ever? What are they non factual random lines on a colour chart?
     
  21. Presuming Ed

    Presuming Ed
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    Oh come on now, don't play stupid to defend your argument.

    That picture shows the number of people who were using Steam in a given period who agreed to take part in a survey.

    Everyone is free to draw a conclusion from it. Your conclusion is that it accurately reflects sales figures. That's fine.

    Another conclusion might be that Steam / HTC Vive users are far more likely to be using Steam and are likely to be more willing to participate in the survey, so the numbers are more likely to favour Steam hardware.

    Others may conclude that a significant number of Oculus Home users may have used Oculus home exclusively in that period so were excluded from the survey from the start.

    I'm not dismissing that survey as non factual, I'm drawing my own conclusions from it within its limited context.

    The conclusions you draw from it are as valid as anybody else's, but they're not facts.
     
  22. Nivek TT

    Nivek TT
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    My gosh this one went south quick... and I'm so late to the party! :rotfl:

    Let me just roll up my sleeves... How about Amazon's US best sellers, Vive doing very well... Rift [Borat]Not so much![/Borat].

    Amazon Best Sellers: Best Video Game VR Headsets

    I loved Oculus' prototype demos. It demonstrates that they are actively researching and figuring out the future of HMDs. All we've seen from HTC is an over-priced resolution bump. All we've seen from Valve is unreleased knuckles. I've lost faith in Pimax, though kudos to those who are keeping it and lets hope they eventually do shake things up! If the HTC Vive Pro is all the iteration we're gonna get then high end VR has plateaued too soon :(

    I never had a problem focusing in the near field. The actuated lens' is solving a problem I didn't know existed. But perhaps Oculus didn't know whether it was a problem or not. They just thought, lets see what happens if we do this. Or may be it was a red herring just to send the competition after a wild goose. Whatever, this presentation has them as 'thought leaders' in my eye. Rock on guys :clap:
     
  23. Nivek TT

    Nivek TT
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    Thinking about it more, I bet this is to do with the varifocal lens and wider FOV. Hence why its not a thing for current gen.

    When the eye tracking / software knows you're looking in the near field using a narrow FOV, maybe reading a sign, the lens close in for optimal FOV and focus. When you're looking out to the horizon, appreciating a wide FOV of a vista, the lens pull away for optimal FOV and focus.
     
  24. Atmos

    Atmos
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    A significant number of Rifters avoided Steam like the plague because of their elitist bias but ever since FO4 and Skyrim came along the barriers have come down and more Rifts were being detected on Steam. Rifts market share then overtook Vives for the first time.

    Since then Vive dropped to £499 and it’s market share went up.

    I doubt it’s coincidence.
     
  25. Presuming Ed

    Presuming Ed
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    Do you really have to post this? Do you believe it? Is such vitriol really necessary? Is it constructive? Do you even realise you're doing it?

    Do you even realise that it's you that has the problem?
     
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  26. huxley

    huxley
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    That's not true. I know of at least a dozen people who own Rifts and I`m fairly sure most of them purchase games from Steam.
    I`ve yet to meet one of these "elitist" rifters you speak of.

    Chill out and play some games dude :)
     
  27. Nivek TT

    Nivek TT
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    I avoid the Facebook store because of my L33tist bias.

    Never play any games... too busy avoiding Facebook... I'm on a mission from God :cool:
     
  28. MikeKay1976

    MikeKay1976
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    Obviously it's not as headline grabbing as the 200 degree pimax however I think it will be a more balanced headset than the pimax (in terms of specs) and I have.more confidence that when CV2 does launch it will have a higher quality screen, optics and have more of a consumer and less of a dev kit feel . I can't help but feel pimax are using the same logic as those who put a 3l engine in a vauxhall nova. I also hope oculus keep honest about the specs and don't try to make up numbers for marketing (like the pimax "8k"). I genuinely hope I am wrong about the pimax 8k then it won't matter....... As I will buy one of them instead.

    However when I think of the 8k with its huge FOV I am reminded of cheap digital cameras of 10 years ago who made a big point of shouting about the megapixels.... Or the very 1st 4k cheap TVs. Again I hope to be wrong and time will reveal all
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2018
  29. Thug

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    Haven't Pimax been saying this for several months now?
    At this rate the CV2 will be out before the Pimax.

    I'm sure that the Pimax showed videos too before releasing a working model for the public to view. Might be wrong though.

    Ah, that could explain why everytime I read Pimax I think Primark's

    BTW Atmos, are you still banned from Oculus Forums? Not seen on there for some time.
     
  30. Atmos

    Atmos
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    No not banned. I still post there regular for my sins. In fact I recently got promoted to Valuable Player! Woohoo get me.
     
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