F1 Italian GP 1st - 3rd Sep '17

KyleS1

Distinguished Member
Hopefully another good fight with Hamilton and Vettel.
 

Sniper Ash6

Distinguished Member
I think Mercedes will have this fairly comfortably. Their PU seems to be slightly better on outright performance
 

KyleS1

Distinguished Member
That's what they thought this race too...
 

Lusankya

Well-known Member

Sniper Ash6

Distinguished Member
You think. I think if Vettel got Lewis off the line. The merc would not have been able to get past.
No, we know it can't follow but on two compounds harder tyres Vettel couldn't even close the gap to be on his gearbox
 

Lusankya

Well-known Member
No, we know it can't follow but on two compounds harder tyres Vettel couldn't even close the gap to be on his gearbox
Just means it can't follow either. I think merc have a very slight advantage in race pace and more in quali. If the fezza is in front though...
 

Sniper Ash6

Distinguished Member
They all struggle to follow because aero is such huge but the Ferrari doesn't seem to struggle as much
 

KyleS1

Distinguished Member
I doubt the Merc could have followed that close for as long as the Ferrari did. Merc do have a slightly faster/higher top speed car, but not all tracks suit that. We saw from this race that Ferrari can pretty much match them now.
 

Lusankya

Well-known Member
I doubt the Merc could have followed that close for as long as the Ferrari did. Merc do have a slightly faster/higher top speed car, but not all tracks suit that. We saw from this race that Ferrari can pretty much match them now.
Exactly, merc do not have this comfortably at all.
 

Chevyonfuel

Well-known Member
A lot of noise has been made about Ferrari struggling on the later tracks, and that the remaining tracks favour Mercedes. Spa was one such place where we were told Ferrari would struggle. I didn't witness that, if anything it was a dropped ball and Vettel should have pipped Hamilton on race day. They were expected to fall behind on R&D and struggle. Since Silverstone it's been on the up, the Belgium win was critical for Hamilton, had Seb won it would be a tricky task to reel him in from that big a points gap.

Qualifying has always been their weakness. The minute Seb can put the car on pole, it causes headaches for Mercedes, and that's regardless of track. The twist with this of course, is that Ferrari's race pace has always been better than qualy. So if Seb's up there on Saturday, he's in contention on the Sunday regardless of if the circuit favours a different manufacturer.

In terms of Monza, Mercedes have an ounce more power, but the car's less stable under heavy braking, so as much as it's a horsepower track, it could be closer than expected. Being their home race, and there being some engine upgrades due, I wouldn't discount the red cars.

I have sympathy pains for McLaren, it's likely to be a torrid experience for all involved.
 

PC1975

Well-known Member
And it was spot on
Hamilton had to race for dear life over those last 10 or so laps and one mistake could've cost him the race. Was anything but comfortable.
 

Sniper Ash6

Distinguished Member
Hamilton had to race for dear life over those last 10 or so laps and one mistake could've cost him the race. Was anything but comfortable.
Oh, yeah, Lewis really had to work for it, I'm not taking that away from him but Seb was on tyres which were what, a second faster per lap?
 

PC1975

Well-known Member
Oh, yeah, Lewis really had to work for it, I'm not taking that away from him but Seb was on tyres which were what, a second faster per lap?
That's not certain - Seb was keeping up with Hamilton for most of the race on the same tyres.
 

Chevyonfuel

Well-known Member
Going all the way back to pre-season testing, only the other teams were taking Ferrari's pace seriously, the media weren't and many of the forums weren't. Andrew Benson was famously quoted as saying something along the lines of "it's too early to say if their pace is genuine or if they're just grandstanding". That belief carried on beyond Melbourne, and hasn't fully gone away, despite the statistics involved.

Seb's led the championship since day one. The car's strong overall but lacks a touch on single lap pace. If they were able to eek out a tad more performance in qualifying, the points difference in the championship would be greater than it is (and that's excluding Canada and Silverstone that were below par for other reasons).

Two very different cars, two very talented drivers and a mixture of tracks where each car could win - it's an intriguing story and I hope this year will be remembered fondly, as there's been some ding dong battles and classy racing.
 

Joe Pineapples

Distinguished Member
You may have read about this during the week

FIA: Mercedes can run higher oil burning engine | PlanetF1

Well apparently, and unbelievably imo, Mercedes voluntarily ran to the lower oil amount in Spa (whereas Ferrari did not), and are going to do the same for the rest of the season. I'm all for fair play but get the feeling the red team would use any advantage they could in Merecedes postilion. Also, what was the point of Merc introducing their 4th engine early.
 

Chevyonfuel

Well-known Member
It might read like Mercedes being civil and sportsmanlike, but it was a more a case that if they brought the upgrade in last weekend, it would sit at the higher limit i.e. 1.2L/100km for the rest of the year assuming no other ICE upgrades came in this weekend or beyond. Upgrades for this weekend and beyond would need to be limited to 0.9L/100km.

Numbers wise it would allow Merc to run a different volume of oil consumption for the rest of the season, hence retaining their power advantage. It's an odd call by the FIA to essentially allow different flow rates based purely on upgrades being brought in 7 days apart.

Someone at Ferrari had their calendar weeks wrong, and they've just tied one arm behind their own back as a result. Fortunately Ferrari aren't that far behind in ICE power, it was more a lack of top end battery power (as witnessed last weekend where at VMAX, power dropped off for the red cars).
 

Chevyonfuel

Well-known Member
To add to the above, and somewhat explaining FP1 - the updated Ferrari PU has apparently been postponed. A change of pistons (lighter, a touch more durable) that would allow higher compression for an ounce more top end power, and potentially run more efficiently so burn less fuel, allowing hotter engine modes to be run for longer.

The trade-off would be whether the upgrade nets more performance than being allowed to burn 1.2L of oil, as any ICE update (such as changing pistons) automatically requires the oil burn limit to drop toe 0.9L.

In terms of FP1 - every other team should pack up and go home apparently, Mercedes have already won... :rotfl:
 

Sniper Ash6

Distinguished Member
This is awful. The best suggestion I've seen with the improved track conditions is send the cars round under the VSC to clear some water.
 

Joe Pineapples

Distinguished Member
This is awful. The best suggestion I've seen with the improved track conditions is send the cars round under the VSC to clear some water.
I think they missed the best window earlier. Kind of hoping its postponed till tomorrow morning now. Don't want them making a panic decision with little time left and making it a complete lottery.
 

Chevyonfuel

Well-known Member
This is what we use when it rains and we need to dry the track (in this case to make it bone dry). A jet drier will disperse surface water with ease. The baffling thing is they used to do drag racing at Monza, so they know about this, and for the sake of 15mins of zipping up and down the pit straight, we'd have finished qualifying by now.



Slowly but surely, it's becoming more and more risk averse. If they want to wait til the track's bone dry, they might as well call it and let everyone go home.
 

Sniper Ash6

Distinguished Member
I think they missed the best window earlier. Kind of hoping its postponed till tomorrow morning now. Don't want them making a panic decision with little time left and making it a complete lottery.
It's a little insulting to the fans just leaving everyone hanging around.

This is what we use when it rains and we need to dry the track (in this case to make it bone dry). A jet drier will disperse surface water with ease. The baffling thing is they used to do drag racing at Monza, so they know about this, and for the sake of 15mins of zipping up and down the pit straight, we'd have finished qualifying by now.



Slowly but surely, it's becoming more and more risk averse. If they want to wait til the track's bone dry, they might as well call it and let everyone go home.
Which isn't going to happen in F1 as tracks either need to own them or they need to be shipped around the world to every event
 

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