Draconia
Novice Member
Cliffnotes to avoid the wall of text below:
Subwoofers only ; I have most of the high end figured out - i may need a little more in the Mids but I'll worry about that after I get the subs replaced.
400 sq foot room - I want 130+db of volume that can go down to 16hrz (music / orchestra / sci fi fantasy movies that use that stuff) - I am building an Atmos system using rack mount amplifiers -every individual speaker will be amplified. I am having difficulty locating a HT subwoofer system that can create a dangerously powerful amount of Clear Clean SPL.
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I'm attempting to build a theater in my home that is much more powerful than you would experience in an Imax or Cinemark XD theater - primarily in the low end.
Any normal consumer grade subwoofer is NOT going to work for me... I need something really powerful.
Background - Imagine sitting in an extreme car audio SPL competition where the extreme bass makes it difficult to breath and when you speak your words come out vibrating funny. In my party bus alone I have four 15 inch subs, Four ten inch mid bases - Two 8 inch mid bases - Four 6x9's and four 6.5's - about 8,000 watts of amplification -- and it sounds fair; but honestly I find it lacking and it wouldnt win any competitions... it is not as strong as I'd want my home theater to sound. (party bus is 8ftx16foot aka 128 sq foot - in a box filled with glass windows; not exactly a good acoustic room) -- My theater room is 400 sq feet - much larger than this bus.. so by this general estimation I'm probably going to want 25,000 watts of power in my home theater (most of that being in the low end)
Imagine being in the most powerful nightclub you could possibly be in - standing in front of the subwoofer and then times that by at least 4.
I've considered buying multple 18 inch Pro audio powered Subs from JBL or EV - even though they are huge -- I could fit them in someplace -- but I fear they will not have the clean response on the low end for home theater use.
Over the years I've bought various speaker systems, home theaters in a box and so forth... For comparison I have owned the following:
single - JBL s120P2 (400 watt 12 inch Front firing) -- It provides a clean sound that basically allows you to hear most of the low end. it is by no means acceptable to me in any way what so ever and generally speaking if I had 10 or 20 of these in my theater room I doubt it would give me the visceral sound I want.
single - Infinity BU-150 (200 watt 15 inch down firing) - Clean sound - no where near powerful enough to please me.
Attempted to do a custom subwoofer box/amp - its better than the pre made things I've listed - but still not good enough.
Dual - Adire Audio Tempest 15 in two custom boxes running 800 watts per using a QSC rack mount amp *sounded better when they were in 2 large 9 cuft boxes, now in the new house they are in smaller 3 cuft sealed boxes and they suffer a lot from that; they sound clean - and much louder than the JBL and infinity -but no where near the power that I want... I'd need their power x4 to come close
-Friend has a pair of the 'best' Monoprice subs available -- they sound clean and nice - but are really way too quiet for me.
-Demo'd the klipsh 12" reference 400 watt sub at best buy / sounds ok... way too weak - its on par with the JBL I currently have.
*Svs products - they have good ratings but I have not heard any yet and doubt that they would be powerful enough to create the visceral sensations that I am seeking. I'm sure they would sound good - and powerful - but I'm not so sure they would create the spl I want.
I've done --countless- hours of research on this - I've found all types of crazy subs - like the $200,000.00 helicopter looking fan that goes in your attic... Not quite in my budget... and my house would fall apart with that thing... lol
My budget is a variable - I've cut a lot of corners in many other aspects of the theater - the original plan was to spend- 30% on the furniture and acoustic stuff / 30% on the image - 30% on the sound - 10% on various mounts, wire and adapters. I've gotten some killer deals on furniture (didnt have to spend $18,000 for the 12 chairs I wanted/ went for something much cheaper and saved 15 grand there- -saved 5 grand on the screen - and may end up saving 3 or 4 grand off the projector from my original estimates... The sound system / rack mount amps and such have also been much cheaper than I originally budgeted... so I have plenty extra to spend on the Subs... I just cant find anything that can do what I want...
aka - give granny a heart attack... stop my dogs heart... explode any chickens that walk past the speaker... I want a powerful sub... When that death star explodes - I want the entire house to shake off its foundation... I want to be concerned that I'll be causing damage to my own ears -- so that I have to avoid turning the volume all the way up... i want a serious - dangerously powerful subwoofer system.
I am more than willing to build a wall of subwoofers - I have a lot of empty expansion in my breaker box ready to send dedicated power to multiple amplifiers.
Any suggestions on which subs I should consider -- and how many of them I should buy? -- General research implies that with each new sub I will gain 6db of volume... so I should probably be looking to build a custom box that has multiple subs inside- possibly one that takes up a solid 8x10 wall section (perhaps behind the screen) -- rather than buying a ton of individual subs that would take up floor space...
I think I may build a sub riser platform in the floor for the 2nd and third rows of seating; that will give me plenty of square footage to play with.- not much room in the ceiling since this is a basement install.
Room is 400 square feet - concrete blocks surround the entire room / with insulated drywall - fiberglass drop ceiling - and wooden subfloor with carpet... there's a 36" door that closes to keep the sound from escaping... nice tough room ready to take a beating.
****I realize that general references to Wattage is not something that can properly describe the true performance of a sub. Since I have such a wall of text here already I'll simply point out that I'm attempting to cliff-note my suggestion - as there is not an 8 10 or 12 inch home theater sub on the planet that will be able to do what I want; there is no way that a 400 watt sub will do what I need... no matter how effecient and wonderfully designed... I'm hoping that this topic will get a few responses that can recommend certain models that I may not have stumbled upon and my suggestion of needing a 25,000 watt theater system -- is quite literally supposed to let you know that I want something insanely powerful -that most other consumers would never want or need.
The goal here- is to have a sound system so powerful that it is difficult to speak, you will feel powerful compressions on your chest, it will be UNCOMFORTABLY loud and will definitely damage your hearing if you listen at loud volume for more than a few moments. Ear plugs definitely will be recommended.
***some luxury subs that I've read about - like JBL Gotham $15k and ..___ Thors hammer ($20k) - I cant imagine them having the comparable spl to me buying 4 to 8 professional 18 inch subs that all push 1800 watts from JBL or EV (they wont go down to 16hrz; but they will push spl for a lower price) -- Maybe it would be wiser for me to go with a few pro subs and mix in a couple HT subs that can hit the lower 16hrz range so I can get the best of both worlds...?
*The theater room I have now is only 400 sq foot - in the next few years we'll be adding on to the home and building a larger dedicated theater room that is closer to 1500 sq feet. so building an over kill system now - will in effect become a much more 'normal' type system when I almost quadruple the size of the room they are all in a few years down the road.
1. Budget. - under $10,000
2. Size requirements/limits. four 10cu foot boxes, maybe eight 5 cubic foot boxes- or smaller/plenty of room in walls, floor or maybe ceiling.
3. Room dimensions. current room is about 20x20 - future room will be triple this size (dont mind buying more subs then)
4. Primary uses. 80% HT/TV viewing, 5% music, 15% gaming
5. Listening habits. Most times I'll have the volume down low - but when guests are over I'll want insane SPL that will almost hurt.
6. Appearance requirements. Dont care; any size any shape - more interested in SPL - sound quality - and cost.
7. Timeframe- No rush
Subwoofers only ; I have most of the high end figured out - i may need a little more in the Mids but I'll worry about that after I get the subs replaced.
400 sq foot room - I want 130+db of volume that can go down to 16hrz (music / orchestra / sci fi fantasy movies that use that stuff) - I am building an Atmos system using rack mount amplifiers -every individual speaker will be amplified. I am having difficulty locating a HT subwoofer system that can create a dangerously powerful amount of Clear Clean SPL.
--------------------------
I'm attempting to build a theater in my home that is much more powerful than you would experience in an Imax or Cinemark XD theater - primarily in the low end.
Any normal consumer grade subwoofer is NOT going to work for me... I need something really powerful.
Background - Imagine sitting in an extreme car audio SPL competition where the extreme bass makes it difficult to breath and when you speak your words come out vibrating funny. In my party bus alone I have four 15 inch subs, Four ten inch mid bases - Two 8 inch mid bases - Four 6x9's and four 6.5's - about 8,000 watts of amplification -- and it sounds fair; but honestly I find it lacking and it wouldnt win any competitions... it is not as strong as I'd want my home theater to sound. (party bus is 8ftx16foot aka 128 sq foot - in a box filled with glass windows; not exactly a good acoustic room) -- My theater room is 400 sq feet - much larger than this bus.. so by this general estimation I'm probably going to want 25,000 watts of power in my home theater (most of that being in the low end)
Imagine being in the most powerful nightclub you could possibly be in - standing in front of the subwoofer and then times that by at least 4.
I've considered buying multple 18 inch Pro audio powered Subs from JBL or EV - even though they are huge -- I could fit them in someplace -- but I fear they will not have the clean response on the low end for home theater use.
Over the years I've bought various speaker systems, home theaters in a box and so forth... For comparison I have owned the following:
single - JBL s120P2 (400 watt 12 inch Front firing) -- It provides a clean sound that basically allows you to hear most of the low end. it is by no means acceptable to me in any way what so ever and generally speaking if I had 10 or 20 of these in my theater room I doubt it would give me the visceral sound I want.
single - Infinity BU-150 (200 watt 15 inch down firing) - Clean sound - no where near powerful enough to please me.
Attempted to do a custom subwoofer box/amp - its better than the pre made things I've listed - but still not good enough.
Dual - Adire Audio Tempest 15 in two custom boxes running 800 watts per using a QSC rack mount amp *sounded better when they were in 2 large 9 cuft boxes, now in the new house they are in smaller 3 cuft sealed boxes and they suffer a lot from that; they sound clean - and much louder than the JBL and infinity -but no where near the power that I want... I'd need their power x4 to come close
-Friend has a pair of the 'best' Monoprice subs available -- they sound clean and nice - but are really way too quiet for me.
-Demo'd the klipsh 12" reference 400 watt sub at best buy / sounds ok... way too weak - its on par with the JBL I currently have.
*Svs products - they have good ratings but I have not heard any yet and doubt that they would be powerful enough to create the visceral sensations that I am seeking. I'm sure they would sound good - and powerful - but I'm not so sure they would create the spl I want.
I've done --countless- hours of research on this - I've found all types of crazy subs - like the $200,000.00 helicopter looking fan that goes in your attic... Not quite in my budget... and my house would fall apart with that thing... lol
My budget is a variable - I've cut a lot of corners in many other aspects of the theater - the original plan was to spend- 30% on the furniture and acoustic stuff / 30% on the image - 30% on the sound - 10% on various mounts, wire and adapters. I've gotten some killer deals on furniture (didnt have to spend $18,000 for the 12 chairs I wanted/ went for something much cheaper and saved 15 grand there- -saved 5 grand on the screen - and may end up saving 3 or 4 grand off the projector from my original estimates... The sound system / rack mount amps and such have also been much cheaper than I originally budgeted... so I have plenty extra to spend on the Subs... I just cant find anything that can do what I want...
aka - give granny a heart attack... stop my dogs heart... explode any chickens that walk past the speaker... I want a powerful sub... When that death star explodes - I want the entire house to shake off its foundation... I want to be concerned that I'll be causing damage to my own ears -- so that I have to avoid turning the volume all the way up... i want a serious - dangerously powerful subwoofer system.
I am more than willing to build a wall of subwoofers - I have a lot of empty expansion in my breaker box ready to send dedicated power to multiple amplifiers.
Any suggestions on which subs I should consider -- and how many of them I should buy? -- General research implies that with each new sub I will gain 6db of volume... so I should probably be looking to build a custom box that has multiple subs inside- possibly one that takes up a solid 8x10 wall section (perhaps behind the screen) -- rather than buying a ton of individual subs that would take up floor space...
I think I may build a sub riser platform in the floor for the 2nd and third rows of seating; that will give me plenty of square footage to play with.- not much room in the ceiling since this is a basement install.
Room is 400 square feet - concrete blocks surround the entire room / with insulated drywall - fiberglass drop ceiling - and wooden subfloor with carpet... there's a 36" door that closes to keep the sound from escaping... nice tough room ready to take a beating.
****I realize that general references to Wattage is not something that can properly describe the true performance of a sub. Since I have such a wall of text here already I'll simply point out that I'm attempting to cliff-note my suggestion - as there is not an 8 10 or 12 inch home theater sub on the planet that will be able to do what I want; there is no way that a 400 watt sub will do what I need... no matter how effecient and wonderfully designed... I'm hoping that this topic will get a few responses that can recommend certain models that I may not have stumbled upon and my suggestion of needing a 25,000 watt theater system -- is quite literally supposed to let you know that I want something insanely powerful -that most other consumers would never want or need.
The goal here- is to have a sound system so powerful that it is difficult to speak, you will feel powerful compressions on your chest, it will be UNCOMFORTABLY loud and will definitely damage your hearing if you listen at loud volume for more than a few moments. Ear plugs definitely will be recommended.
***some luxury subs that I've read about - like JBL Gotham $15k and ..___ Thors hammer ($20k) - I cant imagine them having the comparable spl to me buying 4 to 8 professional 18 inch subs that all push 1800 watts from JBL or EV (they wont go down to 16hrz; but they will push spl for a lower price) -- Maybe it would be wiser for me to go with a few pro subs and mix in a couple HT subs that can hit the lower 16hrz range so I can get the best of both worlds...?
*The theater room I have now is only 400 sq foot - in the next few years we'll be adding on to the home and building a larger dedicated theater room that is closer to 1500 sq feet. so building an over kill system now - will in effect become a much more 'normal' type system when I almost quadruple the size of the room they are all in a few years down the road.
1. Budget. - under $10,000
2. Size requirements/limits. four 10cu foot boxes, maybe eight 5 cubic foot boxes- or smaller/plenty of room in walls, floor or maybe ceiling.
3. Room dimensions. current room is about 20x20 - future room will be triple this size (dont mind buying more subs then)
4. Primary uses. 80% HT/TV viewing, 5% music, 15% gaming
5. Listening habits. Most times I'll have the volume down low - but when guests are over I'll want insane SPL that will almost hurt.
6. Appearance requirements. Dont care; any size any shape - more interested in SPL - sound quality - and cost.
7. Timeframe- No rush
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