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EX/ES/Logic 7 rear speaker placement

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by Gary Palmer, Jul 6, 2001.

  1. Gary Palmer

    Gary Palmer
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    I'm just getting into Logic7 but I need some help on rear speaker placement. I'm assuming that similar rules would apply to EX/ES

    My room is 5x3m and I have two bipoles for sides, placed inline with the listening position. The couch is against the back wall so I can't get speakers behind me in the traditional sense.

    I tried two old prologic rears (to be replaced with identical bipoles) sat on window-sills directly behind me but firing up and I was really pleased with result ;


    +-------------------+
    !..L.........C.........R..!
    !...........................!
    !...........................!
    !...........................!
    !...........................!
    !...........................!
    !...........................!
    !...........................!
    !S....... ME........S!
    +--------------------+
    !.WALL..LR..WALL..RR.WALL.!
    +--------------------+


    Left rear, right rear (LR, RR) firing up towards ceiling from window sills

    Any suggestions for alternatives.. above me firing down? in the top corners firing angled down towards seating position (ME)?

    Help greatly appreciated from EX/ES/Logic7 experts...

    Gary

    [ 06-07-2001: Message edited by: Gary Palmer ]
     
  2. Jase

    Jase
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    Hi Gary

    With my EX/ES setup i have the rear backs up higher towards the ceiling (about 1-2 ft from the actual ceiling) but mine are located on the back wall about 5-6 ft behind me. This gives depth to the sounds coming up behind you.

    Probably a stupid question but is there no way you can move the seating position forward a tad, at least to give you some depth behind.

    I´ve experimented with various positions and the above seems to give the best results in my particular case (you have a slightly larger room than me)

    You could always try, like you mentioned, having the speakers pointing down towards you from above, not sure what this will sound like though as i´ve never tried it!

    Hope this helps a bit

    cheers
    Jase
     
  3. Gary Palmer

    Gary Palmer
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    Hi Hooty

    it's the old thorny problem.... WAF (wife acceptance factor)

    moving couch forward would actually block off the door which opens just forward of the right side speaker.....

    Thanks for the suggestions. I'm going to try to jury rig a temporary mount for the speakers up higher and give it a try..

    Cheers
    Gary
     
  4. gwbailey

    gwbailey
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    Gary, I've got the same problem as you mate!
    and yes it's a real pain isn't it?

    What I'm thinking of doing is having a pair of Dipoles (KEF 34DS) at the sides and a pair of M&K Sw-95 in-wall's (rear centre chanel) mounted on the ceiling directly above my head!

    The only problem is timbre matching the four speakers? can anyone help? will this work?

    I've heard four M&K Sw-95 ceiling mounts (two sides, two back centre) in a demo room in Liverpool and they were the best surround speakers I've ever heard! check them out mate!

    Cheers,
    Graham.

    PS, please let me know how you get on? ;)
     
  5. Gary Palmer

    Gary Palmer
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    Hi Graham,

    Sorry not to have replied before. I've been travelling for 2 weeks (severe home cinema withdrawal !).

    I'd strongly advise you to get the dipoles on loan and some other M&K speakers to try at home before you part with cash an cut holes in your ceiling... ;-)

    The dipole side speakers will produce a completely wrap around sound with effects sounding like they come from the rear.

    I wonder how the rear speakers would fit into the soundstage produced. It might sound a bit odd as the side and the rear channels will both sound like they're coming from behind. It might mess up the steering from side left, rear left, rear right and then side right. You might be better off with bipoles or direct radiators.

    (hope that makes sense)

    I have not tried this though so I may be completely wrong in which case ignore me !

    You're dead right about the tonal match though. The rears I used to play with were very different compared to the side speakers.

    I bought a second set of Monitor Audio bipoles and now pans at the rear are smooth and seamless. Before hand you could hear the sound jump from the sides to/from the rears as the tone changed.


    Haven't tried EX/ES yet but Logic 7 is a huge improvement with my/your seating arrangement and speaker placement.

    I'm a VERY happy camper. Have fun.

    What amp do you have ?

    Cheers

    Gary
     
  6. Guest

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    You're right to be wary of mixing the KEF 34DS and M&Ks. I used to have the 34DS but now have M&K 125s and SS150s. All M&Ks are timbre matched so will work great together. They will not work well with the KEFs, as the M&Ks are much, much brighter in clarity with greater punch & dynamics.

    I would stick with one brand or the other. Obviously the M&Ks will cost a fair bit more! :rolleyes:
     
  7. Guest

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    This is my set up and it sounds great.

    L-----C--Su--R
    +------------+
    +------------+
    +------------+
    +------------+
    LS----------RS
    +------------+
    +---BL---BR--+

    All four surrounds are at an angle to the ceilling firing downwards. They are all Mordaunt Short MDS 20's.
    Hope this helps.

    Dean
     
  8. gwbailey

    gwbailey
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    Beast, are you useing four SS150-THX for your surrounds? if so,are they set in tripole or dipole mode? also, where are they placed in your room?

    Which sub/subs have you matched with the M&K's?

    And last but not least! what in the way of pro/amp are you useing to drive your M&K's?

    Any help would be very grateful,

    Thanks,
     
  9. Operandi

    Operandi
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    Graham

    I use 4 M&K SS150 tripoles and they sound fantastic. The sides (about 2 feet in front the listening position and 3 ft above ear level) are in dipole mode. The rears (on the back wall directly behind the listening position and about 3.5 feet above ear level) are in tripole mode.

    I find that the sound seemlessly wraps around and merges with the fronts (not M&K's) and what I particularly like is that it doesn't seem to come from speakers at all, which is what happened when I had only a single pair of SS150's in the classic THX position (at the sides) in another room. Overall the sound is transparent and dynamic and has amazing detail - the opening sequence in Toy Story 2 in THX EX mode sounds awesome and I am just about to buy Cast Away to try that in THX EX mode as well (could cause structural damage in the crash sequence!).

    I use a M&K VX100 sub which in my small HC room (12x12ft) shakes the floor, even though I have it calibrated via a Tandy spl meter at -11db! This works really well for DVD music (have you heard DTS Tina Turner Live in Amsterdam - incredibly deep bass). I don't use it for 2 channel music, but it does work well for the better music DSP's, particularly Prologic II.
     
  10. Guest

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    Graham

    Sorry for the delay, I thought I would be emailed if this thread got updated...

    No I'm only using 2 SS150s set up in tripole mode at the moment, which is why I was interested in reading these comments. I don't have a large room (12.5 x 15ft) so accomodating even another set of admittedly quite small SS150s would prove a problem. I may move within a year or two, so I don't want to install M&K in-walls. Oh for a bigger listening room... <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

    The sub I'm using is the M&K MX350 THX which I love, and have calibrated via the processor to -12db (like Chris's -11db VX100). If you search for some of my other comments, you can read more about this. I'm using M&K S125s for the front three.

    All speakers are currently being driven by a Meridian 565 processor and a Rotel 985 power amp (which has just died incidentally).

    I'm now looking at moving up to the M&K active front three S150Ps or combo of Meridian 568 and a new Bryston 9B ST power amp replacement. Obviously if/when I travel the 568 route I'll be ready to go ES/EX/EZ once I have a larger room.

    As Chris points out, four SS150s working together will sound incredible. Interesting that he found the sides worked best in dipole and the rears in tripole. Chris - Did the rear soundfield get too 'messy' if you set both pairs to tripole?

    Just to complicate things further... M&K now have some larger rears which are an even closer (identical in some cases, but also tri/dipole) match to their bigger 125/150/250 fronts. Cost more though...
     
  11. gwbailey

    gwbailey
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    Thanks guys, I'am also a massive fan of M&K and looking into buying a THX-M&K setup in the future!

    Shame that the in-walls aren't THX as I thought they sounded great in the demo I heard! along with the S-150P fronts, four Sw-95 inwalls & MX-350 sub, the setup was nothing short of awesome!

    And with the SS-150's they should sound even better!

    One problem though! it'll take me a couple of years to save up! DAMM!

    <br />Have any of you guys heard the inwalls? if so what did you think of them?

    Cheers,
     
  12. Operandi

    Operandi
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    Mark

    I use the SS150's in a dipole for the sides and tripole for the rear configuration after receiving dealer advice. I set them up this way and tried them. They sounded ace so I have left them without trying the tripole config all round. If I get time this weekend, I'll try it out and let you know.

    I have heard the inwalls and they do sound really good too. The ones that I heard (in a dem room) were set in the ceiling for the rears, firing straight down on the listening position. I didn't expect much, but I must say that they worked really well.
     
  13. Guest

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    Chris

    It'll be interesting to hear the results of switching them all to tripole. I'd guess the side / rear soundfield would become too muddled, but I may be wrong...

    Graham

    I wouldn't worry about the inwalls not being THX rated... they use the same drivers, but just don't meet the required THX specs to include the badge. The SW95 uses two of the same drivers as the big S5000THX speakers. There is also now an inwall version of the S150THX front speakers. It uses exactly the same driver configuration. Not heard these yet, but I have heard the SW95s and 85s. I was very impressed, and they're extremely tidy. They are obviously direct radiators, so will have a less expansive soundfield than the tripoles. I'd personally prefer the tripoles, though it could be close.

    The SS150s are some of the best sides / rears I've heard, especially for clarity. For music & DVDA they would be bettered by the new 200/250 or the pro S150 tripole surrounds (a tripole version of the S150THX front speakers).
     
  14. pavlos

    pavlos
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    HI guys, due to room constraints I can not put my surround speakers at the sides walls as reccomended for a 6.1/7.1 confiquarations, therefore can I use monopole surrounds speakes at the rears instead, will that be ok for a 6.1/7.1 system or should I go for bi-polar surrounds and have them at the rear..

    Thanks

    pavlos
     
  15. Guest

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    Sorry Pavlos, not sure what you mean.

    If you mean you can't accomodate 7 speakers, only 5, then you should use whatever you prefer at the rear. There are no rules! You should demo monopole vs bi/di/tripole to see what you like best.

    I personally think the best option is to go the M&K tripole route tailoring output to suit your environment - you can switch these between tripole, dipole & monopole use (or even a mixture of these modes).
     

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