Ex Army Veteran Shooting At Wisconsin Sikh Gurdwara

[Iccz]

i would pit my money on it

we all know gangbangers are crap shots anyway

You don't need to be a marksman when you've got a semi-automatic and the person/people coming at you have nothing.

 

[Flimber]

In the current 'climate' I don't think many gun-toting Yanks will be contemplating surrendering their weapons after this latest shooting, fundamentally because the victims were not 'like them' (ahem). There's nothing we can do to bring about less gun ownership over there as the absurd fears which drive that course through their collective bloodstream even as men, women and children lose their lives daily to bullets, both stray and intended, triggered by the index fingers of idiots.

Truly, there will be Americans crying into their Budweisers at the memory of little kids such as Veronica Moser-Sullivan, the six-year old murdered by the Batman goon - who was in every way indicative of the failure of America itself. And many gun owners will see those cinema victims - all seventy-odd of them - as martyrs both living and dead, for their belief in their right to gun ownership and that giving up that right would now make a waste of their sacrifice. But I'd rather that Veronica was lining up her dolls to play 'schools' today in her favourite dress and wondering what her life was going to bring and I don't think that she deserves to be diminished into a flag for a perpetually-failing 'belief' which can't see the truth for the corpses and which she would never have waved a flag for herself had it been a choice between that and drawing breath, making cookies with Mom and skipping with her friends in the Summer sun.

Indoctrinated from even before birth, Americans love to tell us how 'free' they are and how they won't be controlled by The Man or bow to the government. Panic & Fear Inc. is an enormous business and US citizens are being played supremely well by the very organisations which they claim have no jurisdiction over them; they like it that way too, because they've been told to bear allegiance to a piece of paper from 1787 as that that will protect them from the evil of being un-American. And so all these 'free' people do just as they are told, regardless of the blood streaming from their dead and dying compatriots.

Perhaps if gunlovers would all put their beloved barrels where their mouths are and do the rest of us a favour we'd live in a happier world.

 

[nacmacfeegle]

On the other hand, Flimber, things like this go largely unnoticed ...

Gun carrying man ends stabbing spree at Salt Lake grocery store - ABC4.com - Salt Lake City, Utah News

 

[Flimber]

Also, the Facebook page this latest shooter created on Saturday is still up and was, as I said on the other thread, updated after the guy was lawfuly shot dead (with Nazi-style stuff).

Wade Michael Page | Facebook

Quite chilling really.

 

[hutch]

i think the USA government seems to rule by scaring their citizens so much they are afraid of their own shadows.

this

 

[Miss Chief]

I hate to say it but if you are being mugged by someone with a gun, you'd be dead before you managed to get your concealed weapon out. All this rubbish about 'self defence' and shooting people that are killing indiscriminately is rubbish. There's a whole world of difference between a range and 'combat' when adrenaline is surging.

 

[oakie]

i wouldnt say we run away. we are pretty handy with our fists over here. even old ladies can fend off muggers. you seem to forget that the UK is one of the toughest nations on the planet. our football hooligans could take on an armed USA gang easily

maybe you guys just need to toughen up a bit? stop relying on guns and learn to handle yourself with hand to hand combat

Well this 73 year old lady couldn't fend them off!!
Waterboarded by a gang of robbers in her £7m home: Masked intruders torture grandmother, 73, for three hours to make her open a safe | Mail Online

I suppose the scum bags who did this to her are just misunderstood its not their fault or have been failed by society or some other touchy feely pass the buck BS.

 

[hutch]

Are you saying stuff like that doesnt happen in America Oakie?

 

[oakie]

Are you saying stuff like that doesnt happen in America Oakie?

I'm saying many here in the UK with the law the way it is really have no other choice than to be a victim - how is an old lady supposed to defend her self with 'reasonable' or 'appropriate' force against such thugs and brutes, maybe she should of asked them to hold on a mo while she boiled the kettle so she could poor boiling water on them.
Or maybe is she had a hand gun and a little training she could have made these scum suckers think twice about robbing and torturing old ladies.

 

[IL Cattivo]

in 2008/2009 there was 651 homicides in the uk with 255 of them involving a sharp instrument and I think I can safely say that there has not been a single mass murder in the uk by a person wielding a knife.

Would that be in 2008/2009 or period? Cause good old J T R did a pretty good job with a knife...

 

[hutch]

Or maybe is she had a hand gun and a little training she could have made these scum suckers think twice about robbing old ladies.

Or maybe the robbers would also have guns expecting her to have one and she would now be dead

Seriously there is NO argument which stacks up for guns to be legal all it does is raises the bar. Make shotguns legal someone wants handguns legalised, make handguns legal someone wants Uzi's legalised, make Uzi's legal and someone wants rocket launchers legalised hell im surprised you cant buy your own personal Nuke in the states in the name of protection im sure it wont be long though so sleep tight in the knowledge you are "safe"

 

[uzer]

Perhaps if gunlovers would all put their beloved barrels where their mouths are and do the rest of us a favour we'd live in a happier world.

I was going to reply to you until I read this. It makes me wonder how you got the title of "Senior Moderator" when your view point is everyone who doesn't agree with you should kill themselves.

Pathetic.

 

[Iccz]

I hate to say it but if you are being mugged by someone with a gun, you'd be dead before you managed to get your concealed weapon out. All this rubbish about 'self defence' and shooting people that are killing indiscriminately is rubbish. There's a whole world of difference between a range and 'combat' when adrenaline is surging.

The thing is, guns are just an accessory for the crime. When they talk about gun crime in America they are talking about crimes that use guns, but the gun isn't essentially fired. A lot of the time a gun is there to install fear in to the victims and is rarely used, it's very rare that a gun-toting robber will use, and it's unlikely they will want to have to use the weapon. It's just there to add fear to make the "job" smoother and quicker.
When holding up a store for example, a robber with little to no experience could probably be caught out by a shop keeper or a citizen in the store if they have a gun and the rush to use it.

I was going to reply to you until I read this. It makes me wonder how you got the title of "Senior Moderator" when your view point is everyone who doesn't agree with you should kill themselves.

Pathetic.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying in regards to the thread, but I hate to see members infer the position of a moderator or senior moderator in an arugment/debate. We are all members here and entitled to our own views, these views to not play any role in our moderating duties.

 

[uzer]

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but I hate to see members infer the position of a moderator or senior moderator in an arugment/debate. We are all members here and entitled to our own views, these views to not play any role in our moderating duties.

You are right, it doesn't affect his moderating duties. But as a moderator (or senior moderator in this case) you should be someone the community looks up to. And what he said isn't something ANYONE should transpire to be like. So my comment stands.

 

[Iccz]

You are right, it doesn't affect his moderating duties. But as a moderator (or senior moderator in this case) you should be someone the community looks up to. And what he said isn't something ANYONE should transpire to be like. So my comment stands.

Moderators are members who just help out, in their own free time, to help the forums run in accordance to the rules.
We are not role models, we are not robots, we do have our own views and opinions and have the same right to express them as anyone else here
While you may not agree with what he says, and I don't either, he is entitled to his view just as much as you are.

Anyway, we're heading off topic here...

 

[liamt]

Well this 73 year old lady couldn't fend them off!!
Waterboarded by a gang of robbers in her £7m home: Masked intruders torture grandmother, 73, for three hours to make her open a safe | Mail Online

I suppose the scum bags who did this to her are just misunderstood its not their fault or have been failed by society or some other touchy feely pass the buck BS.

nope. they deserve to rot for the rest of their lives in jail. i still think we have a much better system that the USA as all stats on guncrime and murder etc will show.

sure, give everyone guns to protect themselves, then expect all criminals to have them too and we end up like the USA. no thanks.

 

[uzer]

Moderators are members who just help out, in their own free time, to help the forums run in accordance to the rules.
We are not role models, we are not robots, we do have our own views and opinions and have the same right to express them as anyone else here
While you may not agree with what he says, and I don't either, he is entitled to his view just as much as you are.

Fair enough. With that said I think this thread has run it course for me. I'm not going to continue any debate/argument in a thread where people are condoning the suicide of anyone who owns a gun.

 

[oakie]

Or maybe the robbers would also have guns expecting her to have one and she would now be dead

Seriously there is NO argument which stacks up for guns to be legal all it does is raises the bar. Make shotguns legal someone wants handguns legalised, make handguns legal someone wants Uzi's legalised, make Uzi's legal and someone wants rocket launchers legalised hell im surprised you cant buy your own personal Nuke in the states in the name of protection im sure it wont be long though so sleep tight in the knowledge you are "safe"

Considering the horrible brutal ordeal she was subject to i would say its a miracle she isn't dead.

So essentially what you are saying is this woman and many more like her should have no other option than to be a victim, there is no argument for her to defend her self when some one breaks in to her home and violently and ruthlessly tortures her - what next, it was her own fault because she lived in a big house

 

[Iccz]

Fair enough. With that said I think this thread has run it course for me. I'm not going to continue any debate/argument in a thread where people are condoning the suicide of anyone who owns a gun.

It's a forum, there will always be people who have extreme views and arguments, don't let them push you out of what is a good, and interesting discussion on a topic

 

[uzer]

It's a forum, there will always be people who have extreme views and arguments, don't let them push you out of what is a good, and interesting discussion on a topic

I don't. But this topic could be a spitting image of the Colorado shooting topic. There is no new information here. We have the pro vs anti gun lobby. It's the same argument that has been beaten to the ground multiple times.

No one in America is going to change because a bunch of people in the UK think guns are bad. That is a fact of the situation. And the other fact is no one in this topic is going to shift from Pro gun to Anti gun or vice versa.

 

[nacmacfeegle]

"No one in America is going to change because a bunch of people in the UK think guns are bad. That is a fact of the situation......"

^^^This is what I was trying say further up the thread.

 

[New Start Neil]

Would that be in 2008/2009 or period? Cause good old J T R did a pretty good job with a knife...

Are you referring to Peter Sutcliffe?

If so, his weren't victims of a mass murder, but of a mass murderer.

He killed those women over several years and all separately, not all at once with the same (or a few) knife.

 

[Iccz]

JTR = Jack the Ripper.


Also a mass murderer is someone who commits a mass murder, mass murders are usually defined as at the same time or over a very short period of time.
You mean to say he was a serial killer - mass killings over a period of time.

 

[phillyd1981]

Would that be in 2008/2009 or period? Cause good old J T R did a pretty good job with a knife...

As iccz said jack the ripper was a serial killer a mass murderer is when multiple murders are committed over a short time span.

 

[phillyd1981]

The last horrific mass murder we had was in 2010 and before that in 1996 and both were committed with firearms.