Ex Army Veteran Shooting At Wisconsin Sikh Gurdwara

uzer

Well-known Member
You might as well link Gen chat to BBC news and NY Times. We get it, there are guns in America. People use them. Some people use them for devious means. If someone stabs someone in the UK it doesn't mean there should be a ban of knives. Get over it.
 

phillyd1981

Well-known Member
You might as well link Gen chat to BBC news and NY Times. We get it, there are guns in America. People use them. Some people use them for devious means. If someone stabs someone in the UK it doesn't mean there should be a ban of knives. Get over it.
Big difference between knives and guns. Knives are used in food preparation etc where as guns are not required for any valid reason in the average persons life (I am fully aware that there will be a few exceptions) also if some one goes into a public place and starts going nutty they are not able to do anywhere near as much damage with a knife compared to a firearm.
 

uzer

Well-known Member
Erm, Just go to BBC and put "knife" in the search field. Then tell me there isn't a shanking problem in the UK...
 

simon ess

Well-known Member
You might as well link Gen chat to BBC news and NY Times. We get it, there are guns in America. People use them. Some people use them for devious means. If someone stabs someone in the UK it doesn't mean there should be a ban of knives. Get over it.

I'm trying to work out what you mean when you say "get over it."

Do you mean, get over it because it's not a problem, or get over it because there's nothing can be done about it, or because **** happens, so what, or because we're being too soft, or something else.

On the face of it "get over it" seems a bit harsh, but you probably have a reason for that view.
 

phillyd1981

Well-known Member
You have missed the point of my post. I did not express a opinion on the problem of knife crime. I expressed my view on the difference between guns and knives and why it is possible to ban guns but not knives!
 

uzer

Well-known Member
I said "get over it" as that USA is a gun culture. It IS unfortunate that this kind of thing happens, but being able to have guns is apart of the American culture. Posting news about every shooting here just leads to the same crap...people who are anti gun and people who are pro gun. No one posts articles about the rash of "family annihilations" that is going on in the UK. No one is posting articles about the war lords in Africa starving rival tribes. I haven't seen any articles about China closing Tibet to foreigners in an attempt to alienate the region.

I mean, how many topics need to be posted about shootings? Which inevitably leads to the same anti vs pro gun argument. Banning guns will never happen in the USA. So what is the point of beating a dead horse over and over and over every time there is a shooting?
 

simon ess

Well-known Member
Thanks for that. I get your point absolutely.

Had you explained that in your first post, it wouldn't have struck me so negatively.

These shootings are still a tragedy for the individuals, families and communities involved. Just because worse stuff happens doesn't, IMO, give anyone the right to dismiss them.

I'm sure you didn't mean to do that - it just came across that way.
 

uzer

Well-known Member
Thanks for that. I get your point absolutely.

Had you explained that in your first post, it wouldn't have struck me so negatively.

These shootings are still a tragedy for the individuals, families and communities involved. Just because worse stuff happens doesn't, IMO, give anyone the right to dismiss them.

I'm sure you didn't mean to do that - it just came across that way.
Oh absolutely, I don't dismiss this kind of thing in my line of work. Its just that it happens. Its unfortunate, especially considering the Colorado incident. I feel for the victims but its just one of those things that is hard to prevent in a culture that specifically gives us the right to bear arms. I WISH there was a way to screen out psychological issues...but there isn't. I apologize for the confusion.
 

BISHI

Well-known Member
Uzer is from the states so might have a bias opinion. Out of interest as an American would you ban firearms ..?
 

Toko Black

In Memoriam
Oh absolutely, I don't dismiss this kind of thing in my line of work. Its just that it happens. Its unfortunate, especially considering the Colorado incident. I feel for the victims but its just one of those things that is hard to prevent in a culture that specifically gives us the right to bear arms. I WISH there was a way to screen out psychological issues...but there isn't. I apologize for the confusion.
In Wisconsin, the right to wear concealed fire arms is an 'added' danger though.
Especially considering the right to bare arms seems to include giving that right to people clearly mentally incapable of behaving in a rational and safe manner.
 

BISHI

Well-known Member
There is rumour that the Sikhs were mistaken for Muslims ..
 

BB3Lions

Distinguished Member
They should ans I wish they could smelt all firearms that belong to Mr Joe Public.

Why on Gods Earth does someone need a full automatic weapon at home is beyond me.

We do have a right to protect our castle & I wish we could keep small handguns in the UK for protecting our homes from scum, but No we have to rely on the ***** that is the British policing system.
 

uzer

Well-known Member
Uzer is from the states so might have a bias opinion. Out of interest as an American would you ban firearms ..?
Absolutely not, our 2nd Amendment clearly says we, as Americans, have the right to own guns. Like I said, its our culture. Its unfortunate sometimes what transpires because of this, but it is our right to arm ourselves.

In Wisconsin, the right to wear concealed fire arms is an 'added' danger though.
Especially considering the right to bare arms seems to include giving that right to people clearly mentally incapable of behaving in a rational and safe manner.
Most states have laws about concealed carry. Where I live, if you want a concealed weapons permit you have to take a class and apply for a permit. I personally have a professional license that allows me to carry ANYWHERE I want. But regular permits have rules prohibiting concealing a weapon in businesses, government property, schools etc etc. But in reference, the right is extended to all Americans. Unless they have history of mental illness or previous crimes our constitution says they can't be denied there rights.

BB3: Most people can't obtain automatic weapons. They are EXTREMELY difficult to be approved for. This shooting was with a semi automatic hand gun (I believe). I haven't been following that closely but I thought I heard on the news it was a .40.
 

BISHI

Well-known Member
I believe the right to bear arms was to facilitate a public militia post the war of independence, I don't really think it is necessary these days when your government has nukes.,! Surely it is outdated and completely unnecessary today ..!
 

dc8900

Distinguished Member
That doesn't surprise me on so many levels.

Edit: Actually, I regret posting that. It's not helpful. Sorry.
Reading a lot of the reader comments on some American news site, the sentiment among a few seems to be "It's a tragedy that they were mistaken for Muslims" etc I'm sorry, are they suggesting if it happened to Muslims they would have deserved it?! :confused: :eek:
 

BISHI

Well-known Member
simon ess said:
That doesn't surprise me on so many levels.

Edit: Actually, I regret posting that. It's not helpful. Sorry.
Mr Shepard Fairey sums it up for me-

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Shepard-Fairey-MORE-MILITERRY-LESS-SKOOLS-Signed-03-/00/$(KGrHqIOKkQE23B(HL1lBN5sltJLB!~~_3.JPG
 

simon ess

Well-known Member
I believe the right to bear arms was to facilitate a public militia post the war of independence, I don't really think it is necessary these days when your government has nukes.,! Surely it is outdated and completely unnecessary today ..!
Not sure about this.

I saw an interview with Bonnie Greer about this.

She got quite heated and frustrated at our lack of understanding of the subject.

According to her, the right to bear arms is so the people can protect themselves from the government if necessary.

Still a bit archaic though, I agree.

Uzer - is she right?
 

uzer

Well-known Member
I believe the right to bear arms was to facilitate a public militia post the war of independence, I don't really think it is necessary these days when your government has nukes.,! Surely it is outdated and completely unnecessary today ..!
How so? The right to bear arms extends to protecting ones life and liberty. It was intended to give EVERY American the right to protect themselves. Whether it be from a foreign or domestic aggressor. I personally don't want to be walking down an alley after dinner to have some asshole try to take my wallet and stab me. Depending on the government to "protect" you is silly. As we all know, criminals don't care about the law. So banning guns ultimately only affects those who follow the law in the first place.
 

BISHI

Well-known Member
simon ess said:
Not sure about this.

I saw an interview with Bonnie Greer about this.

She got quite heated and frustrated at our lack of understanding of the subject.

According to her, the right to bear arms is so the people can protect themselves from the government if necessary.

Still a bit archaic though, I agree.

Uzer - is she right?
Well that worked for David Koresh at Waco didn't it..! Surely my argument still applies as a citizen with a gun stands no chance against tanks and helicopter gun ships..!
 

simon ess

Well-known Member
Surely my argument still applies as a citizen with a gun stands no chance against tanks and helicopter gun ships..!
Hence my comment about it being a bit archaic.

Edit: Although events in Syria might suggest otherwise.

Uzer makes a point that Bonnie Greer also emphasised.

We tend to expect the government to protect us, Americans see that as a slightly ridiculous idea. Speaking generally, of course.
 

BISHI

Well-known Member
uzer said:
How so? The right to bear arms extends to protecting ones life and liberty. It was intended to give EVERY American the right to protect themselves. Whether it be from a foreign or domestic aggressor. I personally don't want to be walking down an alley after dinner to have some asshole try to take my wallet and stab me. Depending on the government to "protect" you is silly. As we all know, criminals don't care about the law. So banning guns ultimately only affects those who follow the law in the first place.
But the ultimate result is that everyone has guns, the police, the criminals and the public - then you get what happened today on a regular basis. I believe Canada has much stricter gun laws and a massively lower gun crime rate in proportion to population than its southern neighbour. The reason seems obvious to me ..!
 

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