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EX and Denon 3802 question in March 02 HCC

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by mikenruth, Feb 24, 2002.

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  1. mikenruth

    mikenruth
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    There's a question in this months (March 2002) Home Cinema Choice regarding a Denon 3802 with DD EX software. The answer mentions unflagged software, which is fair enough, but the 3802 doesn't support EX, only dts es. Surely that's the answer?:confused:
     
  2. Jeff

    Jeff
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    It only doesn't support EX in name because its not a THX amp. EX DVDs work fine and do what they are meant to do.

    Jeff
     
  3. mikenruth

    mikenruth
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    Thanks for the answer, Jeff.

    Does this mean a Denon 3802 supports DD EX (not THX EX) along with dts es, in a similar way to Yamaha av amps? If so, shouldn't they display 6.1 or 7.1 in the receivers window?
     
  4. CARLOS

    CARLOS
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    They do ;)
     
  5. bob007

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    Will only display this information if the surround back function is switched on.
    Switch to on when surround back L/R are connected.
     
  6. -Spike-

    -Spike-
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    So does this also apply to the 3801 as well ?


    Cheers
    Steve
     
  7. WSquared

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    The confusion here is caused by the licensing aggreement between Dolby & THX. The name EX is licenced to THX not Dolby. So, unless an amp is THX certified, it can't say it supports THX EX, even though it may be able to do what you might call DD EX.
     
  8. bob007

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    Applies to the 3801 aswell....bob
     
  9. -Spike-

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    Thanks Bob

    Steve
     
  10. Stuart M. Robinson

    Stuart M. Robinson
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    WSquared,

    “The confusion here is caused by the licensing aggreement between Dolby & THX. The name EX is licenced to THX not Dolby. So, unless an amp is THX certified, it can't say it supports THX EX, even though it may be able to do what you might call DD EX.”

    Not so. See the current HCC for an explanation of the licensing issues surrounding EX. In short, EX is a Dolby/THX technology that had limited THX exclusivity. The EX name, providing it is correctly licensed, is now available from Dolby with no THX involvement.


    Stuart M. Robinson
    SMR Group – http://www.smr-group.co.uk/
     
  11. Reiner

    Reiner
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    Aren't the names like this:

    Dolby Digital EX (Matrix 6.1)
    DTS ES (Matrix 6.1)
    DTS ES Discrete (true 6.1)
    THX Surround EX (THX licensed flavor of Dolby Digital EX in 7.1)
     
  12. MarkB

    MarkB
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    Yep, Stuart's right – Dolby can now put the full Dolby Digital EX logo on Dolby licensed products, before is was simply a Dolby Digital logo with 'THX SURROUND EX' placed elsewhere - so long as the unit was THX certified.

    The HCC feature was excellent, as has been the magazine now for months.

    Mark
     
  13. WSquared

    WSquared
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    You are correct, but many current/new products are still not being marketed correctly using the term DD EX in all places. The US denon 3802 product sheet and US website say DD 6.1, not DD EX.
    However, the UK website says DD EX, but in the UK product sheet, it just says DD. It will be a while before the companies commercial/marketing groups get their story straight. I imagine it will be the 3803, etc before we can actually see DD EX on the front LCD panel even though it is actually doing DD EX.
     
  14. Kevin Bracey

    Kevin Bracey
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    But apart from the name licensing, are the actual rear-channel matrix processes in the current, non-EX branded amplifiers (eg SR7200, AVR-3802) implemented using Dolby algorithms or have they had to use their own systems because of the licensing?

    For that matter, what is the standard Dolby algorithm? Is it identical to standard Pro Logic (I) centre channel decoding, or are there subtle differences? I haven't been ever been able to find a definite answer to that question. And what happens to the information that would have been routed to the S channel, in a standard matrix decoder? Is it just sent to LS and RS?
     
  15. MarkB

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    The algorithm used is the Dolby 3 system. It is identical for THX SURROUND EX and Dolby Digital EX systems, obviously you don’t get the THX extras with the normal Dolby version.

    Read all you need to know on Dolby EX/THX SURROUND EX in this month's HCC mag if you're that interested in it. It is a good feature.

    Mark
     
  16. Reiner

    Reiner
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    I would also agree that even it does not carry the correct name on the front it will still use the official algorithm, which is similar to what DPL does.

    Oh wait, wasn't Yamaha using a proprietery solution on their first Ex/Es models?
     
  17. Stuart M. Robinson

    Stuart M. Robinson
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    Guys,

    Read the magazine! Don’t make me cut ‘n’ paste the whole thing into a forum message or post a link to the WHSmith web site! ;)

    Any product without an Dolby Digital EX or THX Surround EX badge has to use a proprietary matrix extraction scheme to recover the surround back channel – a simple Hafler matrix would work in a fashion – whereas only licensed gear actually uses daisy-chained Dolby processes.

    A Pro Logic matrix won’t work, yes the Sr + Sl content will be routed to Sb, but all Sr - Sl content would be lost. The system used is the equivalent of a Dolby 3 Stereo matrix.

    The Surround Back extraction in a THX Surround EX system is not identical to that in a Dolby Digital EX system; the former uses a Dolby 3 Stereo matrix based upon the Pro Logic front steering model, whereas the latter uses matrix extraction based upon the Pro Logic II matrix.


    Stuart M. Robinson
    SMR Group – http://www.smr-group.co.uk/
     
  18. Reiner

    Reiner
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    Read the magazine! Don’t make me cut ‘n’ paste the whole thing into a forum message or post a link to the WHSmith web site!

    I would love to but I so far I haven't found the mag anywhere here ... but will probably subscribe when I get my new credit card.

    So, could you 'cut and paste' please for the time being ... ? ;)
     
  19. PaulBoy

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    Interesting thread even though I have the "ancient" 3801 flavour of Denon amplification!
    As a recent convert to 6.1 (no room for two xtra speakers in my lounge unfortunately) I was instantly impressed by the difference the xtra channel makes and on how many of my existing DVDS are able to use it ...
    What I'd like to know (& I'm sure Stuart MR has answered it B4) why is it that most of the DVDS that make reference to the fact that they are ES or EX capable (eg Star Wars TPM) DONT come up on the Denon as "ES or EX Matrix/Discrete" whereas most of the DVDS that DO NOT make reference to the fact that they are ES or EX capable DO come up on the Denon as "ES or EX Matrix/Discrete (eg Oh Brother Where Art Thou) ...
    I know you can set the Denon to Auto Detect ES or EX - I think mine is set to "Off" as per the manual - Is that where I am going wrong or am I talking out of my RCE again!:confused:
    Paul ;)
     

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