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Ever get the feeling we're being had?...

Discussion in 'Movie Forum' started by James, Sep 15, 2000.

  1. James

    James
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    As great as the whole DVD experience is, do you ever get the feeling that the film companies are using it to their own advantage? Much in the way that the Star Wars VHS saga has disillusioned a lot of people, I feel aggrieved about the way that the release of films on DVD is being managed.

    My gripe is the way that films are released, and then within a year or so a Special Edition follows, with better sound, a revised cut, or better extras.

    I'm prepared to accept that in the case of the earliest releases, this was a case of getting product to the market and ignoring the bells and whistles (a la Terminators 1&2), and that the Special Editions are a genuine bonus.

    What is inexcusable is that it now seems to be a deliberate ploy. Witness the Princess Bride: a classic film recently out on R1, but with few extras. Soon after release, we are told that there will be a SE version next year. Why couldn't they release one fulled loaded version? Answer: to make us pay twice.

    This is echoed by a whole range of other titles: the Lethal Weapon Director's Cuts; the forthcoming DTS releases of True Lies, Predator, Last of the Mohicans et al; the new versions of the Die Hard movies; the revised version of Seven; the myriad versions of Army of Darkness - the list goes on.

    When someone like Criterion makes an SE version, it is usually because they have invested a large amount of effort in making the disc really special. When the film companies re-release existing titles, it seems to me that they are saying that the first release wasn't up to scratch, which is worrying.

    If films like T2, The Bone Collector, and Pitch Black can include DD, DTS, and a host of extras, why can't other films aim for this benchmark? I for one would be willing to wait a bit longer and pay a bit more for one decent edition, rather than buy a no-frills version and then have to replace 12 months later.

    If you think I'm just whinging, let me know!
     
  2. Jay2000

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    Oh you are far from whingeing!

    The entertainment industry has been taking us for mugs for years and it wont change while we are still prepared to shell out for bigger and better versions of films/CD's/games that we already own!

    Rather than complain about it - do what I do.

    Use Napster for your music needs, and if you have a CD writer the odd spot of "Sorry Mr HMV, I bought this CD for my friend as a present but he already has it, give me a refund" wont harm anyone.

    Not much good for your DVD woes I know, but it wont be long before you can copy those as well... [​IMG]
     
  3. wwwebber

    wwwebber
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    James -

    Where did you hear about DTS versions of Mohicans & Predator ?. I found a DTS version of Last Of The Mohicans but this was the animated version. I would be very interested in these titles.
     
  4. Dan1977

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    My advice is :- don't buy any Dvd film if it has no extras on it because when ever film companys release dvds like this they always release another version a few months after.

    i.e. Pulp Fiction......Trainspotting
     
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    For a start, wasn't Napster shut down recently for good reason!?
    Second of all, I am a classical musician who makes his money from teaching, playing and recordings. It is that sort of talk and attitude that makes me lose money. I am not the only person in this situation. Thousands of musicians lose money every year from piracy.
    Now I know that you are thinking that it is only a very small amount that we get from every disc sold, but it all adds up. You are probably also thinking that it really doesn't matter because all of those superstar rock/pop musicians have already got oodles of cash and can therefore afford it. But what about the musicians that haven't made it to the big time yet. This is a major source of income for us and it's people like you that are putting us all out of work! For every one else that is reading this, take my advise and support the music industry as much as you can and buy your CD's and movies. Otherwise soon, there may not be a music industry. [​IMG]

     
  6. logiclee

    logiclee
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    Must agree with Nieldo on this one, if it wasn't for geniune Music and Film fans buying the original there wouldn't be any material to copy.

    Most HC fans are also into HiFi and copied CD's are usually sonically a lot worse than the original CD.

    As for using MP3 as a way of listening to music, no thanks. Lets have some DVD Audio

    Lee

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    There is no spoon!

    [This message has been edited by logiclee (edited 19-09-2000).]
     
  7. wwwebber

    wwwebber
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    I assume that you are referring to CD's created from MP3's. I say this because a straight copy of a CD onto a CDR would be identical sonically to the original bearing in mind that the data will not have changed unless there was a fault on the original (scratches etc).
     
  8. 1dazgwinn

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    Of course that we are being taken in,but you know what they say is the difference between boy's and men is the size of their toy's!So when T2 is released then reason, and overdrafts are out of the window.I'm the biggest sucker of them all!
     
  9. 1dazgwinn

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    Of course that we are being taken in,but you know what they say is the difference between boy's and men is the size of their toy's!So when T2 is released then reason, and overdrafts are out of the window.I'm the biggest sucker of them all!
     
  10. logiclee

    logiclee
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    wwweber,

    A CDR is in no way sonically same as the original cd and especially not when copied with PC gear, even with £500 hifi cd recorders there is a noticable difference between copy and original. You may not notice too much of a difference on cheaper boom box units etc., but on any decent hifi equipment the difference stands out a mile.
    Cannot give you a technical reason for this, maybe due to errors or sampling or cdr quality. Recall that What HiFi did an article on this topic I'll see if I can dig it out. [​IMG]

    Cheers

    Lee

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    There is no spoon!
     
  11. wwwebber

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    Logiclee.

    You may well be right. Although I would say that this could only be down to audio CD players not coping very well with CDR's. But surely the data is the same !!!. Think of this :- If the data was somehow different then copies (oops I mean backups) of data CD's would not work due to the data needing to be byte perfect for it to run on a computer correctly. This just does not happen. I can therefor reasonably assume that the data is identical. If you apply this theory to audio CD's which are in essence data CD's then you should end up with a 1:1 copy. Also I can't see a £500 hi-fi CD recording setup performing any better than a PC in this scenario.

    If I'm missing something big here then of course apologies are due.

    Also, how about some input from Mr Wardle & Mr Stokes.

    [This message has been edited by wwwebber (edited 19-09-2000).]
     
  12. Dodgey

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    wwwwebber, There is more to it than this.

    Compact disks use quit ecomplex error correcting procedures. Otherwise, it one byte of data was missing (scratched) then the player would crash.

    What actually happens is that, for example, with a CD album, the actual songs are recorded many times in different places on the same disk. There is also a complicated error correction algorithm running through the data. So when parts of the disk are damaged, the error correction code tells the player where else it can find a "backup" of the missing data. If that is scratched too, then you get a "drop" or "click" .CD tracks are recorded as digital audio, and you need to run "DAE" Digital Audio Extraction to get a copy. Unfortunately, most CDROM drives (in a PC or hi-fi unit) are very poor at DAE, especially over the 1x speed they are supposed to extract Digital Audio. Errors occur. Especially when people try to copy audio CDs at 2x, 4x, 8x speed. This is a simplistic view (as I am not a boffin), but the net result is this:

    When you copy an audio CD there is very little chance you will copy it EXACTLY. The effect on the error correction encoded on the disk is exaggerated.

    I have copied many audio CDs (not for piracy reasons - get to that in a mo.) and have NEVER made a perfect copy. And I have tried! There are tools to do it but you have to be VERY patient and still expect some glitches.

    Piracy. I understand the feelings mooted in this thread but I have one MAJOR complaint with the MOVIE and MUSIC industry: When I but PC software, I pay for the license to use it. NOT THE DISK. If I scratch, or lose the disk, I pay an admin fee (usually a few pounds) to get a replacement disk - supplying a proof of purchase. If I damage a CD or DVD (not at all difficult!!) I have to "buy" the work again! I think this stinks.
     
  13. Dodgey

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    Correction to my previous post. The music on a CD is recorded once. The error correction data is recorded in many places, broken up and repeated so it is more resilient.
     

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