EV to save the planet? Maybe not ...

LV426

Administrator
Staff member
Agreed. Unlearn that fuelling is always a separate, attended, activity (ICE) (and therefore needs to be really fast, else it is intrusive) and learn instead that it is best done in parallel with some other activity that you could - or at least should - be doing anyway (and therefore only needs to be as fast as that other activity).
 

Rizvan

Well-known Member
Agreed. Unlearn that fuelling is always a separate, attended, activity (ICE) (and therefore needs to be really fast, else it is intrusive) and learn instead that it is best done in parallel with some other activity that you could - or at least should - be doing anyway (and therefore only needs to be as fast as that other activity).
I know its only a option for some but the Tesla Model 3 can fast charge upto 250kW. That means you can charge in about 25-30 mins approx / 75 miles charger for every 5 mins of supply. :)
Tesla Superchargers V3 are coming and BP Chargemaster have just opened up their first 150kW rapid charger.
 

Delvey

Distinguished Member
I know its only a option for some but the Tesla Model 3 can fast charge upto 250kW. That means you can charge in about 25-30 mins approx / 75 miles charger for every 5 mins of supply. :)
Tesla Superchargers V3 are coming and BP Chargemaster have just opened up their first 150kW rapid charger.
Great if you own a Tesla. If you own a leaf then still an hour to charge. Plus off all the motorway services I stopped at on the M6 and M5, none had Tesla chargers, all were time limited and and most had 7kw max. 7kw will not get your far
 

Munkey Boy

Distinguished Member
I’m always surprised by the amount of widely discredited pseudo-science that gets put about on AVF as though it was legitimate.

There’s really not a controversy that EVs produce less CO2 than their ICE equivalents over their lifetime from the broad body of evidence to date, and as scale efficiencies improve and electricity mixes change towards renewable, the trend is only one way too.

Because EVs aren’t perfect, doesn’t mean they aren’t better.
 

gangzoom

Well-known Member
I’m always surprised by the amount of widely discredited pseudo-science that gets put about on AVF as though it was legitimate.
I think calling that article pseudoscience is giving it too much credit.

The mission statement of that website is:

"we decided to launch a counter-cultural offensive against the forces of Leftism, feminism and modernism – against the anti-family, authoritarian identity politics and ‘equality and diversity’ ideology sweeping through the country’s institutions."


Seeing a single sex couple, driving an EV to their wedding been held at the local multicultural youth club in a city like Leicester, would probably send the author of that article into a spontaneous explosion of self righteous rage :).
 

G a f f e r

Moderator
Haven't read the whole thread yet but just to add my thoughts (and yes, this is only imho), I have been interested in going EV at least for my daily commute based on the following positives:
  • Zero Emissions - with no/less car tax as a result
  • Easier and cheaper to service (theoretically)
  • Free to park at work and many other places
  • seemingly "perfect" for my yearly low mileage of ~4000mi/yr
  • good low end torque so plenty nippy around town
However, after going to look at a BMW i3 which they were trying to charge closer to 40k for I opted for a used approved 330D at much reduced cost instead - about 1 month before the government decided that diesel was the work of the devil :facepalm:

Going back to the i3 - based on it's specs it's equivalent to a 1.4l town car and build quality/performance would suggest that....but they want 3x more for it. The new Honda EV looks good too, but again, looking at the specs it's a whisker over a kei car for the city yet Honda want £30k+ for it :confused:. I mean, these prices are ridiculous, especially when you consider they have no ICE engine and cooling systems etc etc and should be considerably cheaper to manufacture. It's things like this that make me think I'll hang onto my oil burner for a few more years yet until I no longer feel I'm being fleeced buy buying into EV (or they ban diesel pumps altogether).

Plus there's this issue -->

What I experience filling up my diesel (similar for petrol):
  • park up and use a STANDARDISED nozzle to brim up to rim
  • 3min later I'm paying at the pump and driving off
  • I now have ~400mile range

What I currently expect if I went EV:
  • park up and hope to find 1 empty space (last time at a service station I noticed of the 3 EV "pumps", 1 dysfunctional, 1 being used, 1 blocked by a petrol car :facepalm:) - why can't we have more charging stations? At least close to petrol/diesel numbers?
  • If I am in the lucky 10% to have something available, find out it's not the right nozzle - WHY isn't it standardised? EVERYONE should be using the same nozzle, or maybe 2, for instance 1=normal charge, 2=fast charge - that's it - industry standard?
  • If it fits, great - does the payment system work, does it even recognise my account? (common enough issue reported in the media)
  • now (assuming everything IS working) wait 30min to get half charge
  • I therefore have ?100mile range after ½ hour if lucky enough to find an empty charger that has my plug and actually works (i know the figures aren't precise but I'm just making a point)
  • Still have the range anxiety with everything I think of using - should I use the aircon? what about the heated seats? should I simply turn the radio off? ...every time I decide to go on a longer journey.
  • when I go to work (NHS - about 600 parking spaces at a guess) - 1 (yes 1) EV charging point. Yep, REALLY feels like society is passionately committed to this doesn't it?
Again, I know most of these points will either improve over time (e.g. available charging points, reduced charging times, standardising equipment etc) or may simply be my lack of understanding about electric cars but as of right now, EV appears to be a half baked proposal which despite the government's protestations, are simply NOT being adequately provisioned for in the UK yet.

If I do go EV, my plan would be to use it for daily commute only (15mi there and back) which means I'll simply charge at home which will be adequate for that plus the odd shopping trip/further trip out and so never have to rely on public charging points (so bypassing the first five points above) but the points about continual range anxiety (which I think would drive me mad) and ridiculous cost for what you're buying (not taking into account battery replacement costs when the car gets older) stay my hand.
Talking to colleagues at work, many of them have the same concerns (misapprehensions?) I do - because these points come up again and again and it seems like manufacturers and govt depts are taking an ice age to clearly and adequately sort it out (you can't have it both ways - either our reliance on fossil fuels/production of CO2 is a serious threat to humanity (which both are) in which case I feel things should be moving faster or Trump is right (playing devil's advocate), it's all a myth/conspiracy and we shall continue to very very slowly but surely drip through tiny improvements at a very very glacial state as we are currently doing).....

...... I really want 4min fill ups and closer to 8,422 EV stations in the UK with 10 charging points each to match petrol/diesel please :thumbsup: but anything better than "new model with 10miles more range, woohoo" every 2 years would be good too. To reiterate I'm not against EV (I watch the Driving Electric channel on YouTube hoping to find an excuse to jump ship) but I simply haven't found it tempting enough (or provisioned enough yet) to do so....
 

Delvey

Distinguished Member
Haven't read the whole thread yet but just to add my thoughts (and yes, this is only imho), I have been interested in going EV at least for my daily commute based on the following positives:
  • Zero Emissions - with no/less car tax as a result
  • Easier and cheaper to service (theoretically)
  • Free to park at work and many other places
  • seemingly "perfect" for my yearly low mileage of ~4000mi/yr
  • good low end torque so plenty nippy around town
However, after going to look at a BMW i3 which they were trying to charge closer to 40k for I opted for a used approved 330D at much reduced cost instead - about 1 month before the government decided that diesel was the work of the devil :facepalm:

Going back to the i3 - based on it's specs it's equivalent to a 1.4l town car and build quality/performance would suggest that....but they want 3x more for it. The new Honda EV looks good too, but again, looking at the specs it's a whisker over a kei car for the city yet Honda want £30k+ for it :confused:. I mean, these prices are ridiculous, especially when you consider they have no ICE engine and cooling systems etc etc and should be considerably cheaper to manufacture. It's things like this that make me think I'll hang onto my oil burner for a few more years yet until I no longer feel I'm being fleeced buy buying into EV (or they ban diesel pumps altogether).

Plus there's this issue -->

What I experience filling up my diesel (similar for petrol):
  • park up and use a STANDARDISED nozzle to brim up to rim
  • 3min later I'm paying at the pump and driving off
  • I now have ~400mile range

What I currently expect if I went EV:
  • park up and hope to find 1 empty space (last time at a service station I noticed of the 3 EV "pumps", 1 dysfunctional, 1 being used, 1 blocked by a petrol car :facepalm:) - why can't we have more charging stations? At least close to petrol/diesel numbers?
  • If I am in the lucky 10% to have something available, find out it's not the right nozzle - WHY isn't it standardised? EVERYONE should be using the same nozzle, or maybe 2, for instance 1=normal charge, 2=fast charge - that's it - industry standard?
  • If it fits, great - does the payment system work, does it even recognise my account? (common enough issue reported in the media)
  • now (assuming everything IS working) wait 30min to get half charge
  • I therefore have ?100mile range after ½ hour if lucky enough to find an empty charger that has my plug and actually works (i know the figures aren't precise but I'm just making a point)
  • Still have the range anxiety with everything I think of using - should I use the aircon? what about the heated seats? should I simply turn the radio off? ...every time I decide to go on a longer journey.
  • when I go to work (NHS - about 600 parking spaces at a guess) - 1 (yes 1) EV charging point. Yep, REALLY feels like society is passionately committed to this doesn't it?
Again, I know most of these points will either improve over time (e.g. available charging points, reduced charging times, standardising equipment etc) or may simply be my lack of understanding about electric cars but as of right now, EV appears to be a half baked proposal which despite the government's protestations, are simply NOT being adequately provisioned for in the UK yet.

If I do go EV, my plan would be to use it for daily commute only (15mi there and back) which means I'll simply charge at home which will be adequate for that plus the odd shopping trip/further trip out and so never have to rely on public charging points (so bypassing the first five points above) but the points about continual range anxiety (which I think would drive me mad) and ridiculous cost for what you're buying (not taking into account battery replacement costs when the car gets older) stay my hand.
Talking to colleagues at work, many of them have the same concerns (misapprehensions?) I do - because these points come up again and again and it seems like manufacturers and govt depts are taking an ice age to clearly and adequately sort it out (you can't have it both ways - either our reliance on fossil fuels/production of CO2 is a serious threat to humanity (which both are) in which case I feel things should be moving faster or Trump is right (playing devil's advocate), it's all a myth/conspiracy and we shall continue to very very slowly but surely drip through tiny improvements at a very very glacial state as we are currently doing).....

...... I really want 4min fill ups and closer to 8,422 EV stations in the UK with 10 charging points each to match petrol/diesel please :thumbsup: but anything better than "new model with 10miles more range, woohoo" every 2 years would be good too. To reiterate I'm not against EV (I watch the Driving Electric channel on YouTube hoping to find an excuse to jump ship) but I simply haven't found it tempting enough (or provisioned enough yet) to do so....
The UK is behind the rest of the big European countries IMO in infrastructure (not just EV charging, but also things like the road network, rail network, public transport etc)
 

gangzoom

Well-known Member
If I do go EV, my plan would be to use it for daily commute only (15mi there and back) which means I'll simply charge at home which will be adequate for that plus the odd shopping trip/further trip out and so never have to rely on public charging points (so bypassing the first five points above)
I really cannot be bothered these days with trying to reason with flawed logic like this. Moan about lack of public charging than admit there is no personal need for it??

There are situations when EVs wouldn't work, the travelling sales person doing a true 300 miles+ a day with time sensitive commitments.

But for the 'average' UK motorist doing 8k miles per year and home charging EVs are more convenient 99% of the time.

I've done now 54k miles in EVs since 2015, plenty of people on here have now done more, a few people have gone back to combustion cars after trying an EV, but the vast majority I suspect will never buy another combustion car.

None of us EV owners are different to any other motorist interms of what we want from a car, so unless we are all idiots why are we sticking to EVs?? Could it be that actually EVs are actually better cars, and their perceived limitations aren't that bad versus their overall ownership experience??

As a family we have spent our last £ on a combustion car back in 2015, frankly people can moan about EVs as much as they like, but for us, as a family EVs are the only option going forwards, and that's based on real life experiences not flawed hypotheses:).
 

G a f f e r

Moderator
I really cannot be bothered these days with trying to reason with flawed logic like this. Moan about lack of public charging than admit there is no personal need for it??
,....
If you read what I wrote, I'm clearly differentiating between 2 cases:

Case 1: Is it the right time to switch to EV to take the place of everything your car does including long commutes? Answer = NO. Yes this isn't ideal because it feels like instead of moving forward, the lack of infrastructure makes it a backwards step. I was watching a YT vid of a chap travelling across the US in a Model X. He had to do 3 overnight charges at 11-12hrs a pop, extending his journey to 3days plus........if EV were at the level of fossil fuels in how it's delivered it would be a few 3min fill ups and a 1 day journey tops.

Case 2: What I myself am tempted to use EV for - daily commutes that don't necessitate external charges because they seem so poorly developed and available currently. For THIS scenario, yes I have no issues . Again I CLEARLY stated this in my post where I said that the first five points get negated. However, Range Anxiety might still be a issue and the upfront cost of what should be vastly cheaper tech another.

So I'm talking about 2 situations here, one of which makes EV almost viable for me (case 2) and one of which doesn't (case 1)
 

gangzoom

Well-known Member
I was watching a YT vid of a chap travelling across the US in a Model X. He had to do 3 overnight charges at 11-12hrs a pop, extending his journey to 3days plus........
And how many times have you driven non stop across the US. Infact how many people who live in NewYork drive to LA instead of taking the plane?

Everyone can think of extreme situations, but the average UK motorist does 8k miles per year. A 200-300 mile range EV that they can charge at home will make no difference to real world use.
 

G a f f e r

Moderator
And how many times have you driven non stop across the US. Infact how many people who live in NewYork drive to LA instead of taking the plane?

Everyone can think of extreme situations, but the average UK motorist does 8k miles per year. A 200-300 mile range EV that they can charge at home will make no difference to real world use.
:facepalm: It's the point being made, EVs are restrictive for long distance driving. Yes, I would like to have EV conform as close as possible to case 1 please. Why not? Why settle for less? ...and if we the public don't push for it, how will it happen? Just stay silent and accept the slow drip drop of progress whilst being told it's an essential/immediate issue?....all the while paying exorbitant prices whilst the manufacturers still make billions in profits (if they make so much profit why pass the costs onto us?)...

As an example I drove to Glasgow in my 330D on a single tank, took 7.5-8hrs. At any point I could've stopped off if needed to fill up. No range anxiety.
Going to the tesla site and speccing their 90K all singing all dancing Model X and I would have to stop 3 times for roughly 1/2hr each. This not only adds time to an otherwise long journey but it can be difficult to keep doing this with a 1.5yo in tow.......and before you say it, yes we also travel up by plane (interesting that EV advocates also advocate planes...) but occasionally a car is more flexible for a) luggage reasons b) transport 'whilst staying at destination' reasons.

So NO, it definitely isn't an extreme case, long distance travel is common in the UK, France, Germany, Italy etc etc and the current infrastructure for EV simply adds hassle and delays to any journey. I say again, I don't feel EV is currently up to standard for a Case 1 scenario. You may feel differently but I don't agree.

I would love for this to change and I do accept that for local/town only driving, for the simple reason that you've negated one the biggest single weak points (poor infrastructure because you charge at home) which makes EV viable and is why I am interested.....like I said this is the other case (case 2) where I think EV would suit my needs as long as costs come down.
 

gangzoom

Well-known Member
As an example I drove to Glasgow in my 330D on a single tank, took 7.5-8hrs. At any point I could've stopped off if needed to fill up. No range anxiety.
And as an example we've taken our X to Glasgow, Southampton, France, and planning a road trip around Norway, also with no range anxiety.

How many miles did you do last year for personal use? Our X is current on 15k PA with me only living 10 miles for work.

To suggest the current crop of 200-300miles range EV are only good for city trips shows how little real life experience you have of EVs. But hey that a common theme amount the anti EV brigade, post random thoughts based on no real life experience, and when people who have real life experience just choose to ignore them.

That's why I don't bother these days relying to these kind of posts, it literally is pointless sharing real world experience with people who have already made up their minds.
 

gangzoom

Well-known Member
Just for interest, a near 900km 'race' between a Model 3 and 911. But hey what does that prove as most people don't ever drive 900km in one day...

 

G a f f e r

Moderator
And as an example we've taken our X to Glasgow, Southampton, France, and planning a road trip around Norway, also with no range anxiety.
Again, missing the point about "fill ups". How many fill ups did you make? How long did they last? The point is that currently I myself am not convinced that longer range journeys are catered for without added inconvenience and hassle and especially time....when compared to current diesel and petrol cars.
Yes, the journey can be done, but No, not in the same timeframe or without additional stops.
If I can be convinced that waiting around for ½ hr 3x as per Tesla's recommendations is no longer required and the journey would be the same or more efficient time&effort-wise than in my current diesel, then I'll reconsider it.

To suggest the current crop of 200-300miles range EV are only good for city trips shows how little real life experience you have of EVs. But hey that a common theme amount the anti EV brigade, post random thoughts based on no real life experience, and when people who have real life experience just choose to ignore them.
Again, I'm not the anti-EV brigade. Are you actually reading my posts? I myself would be interested in a Model X as it would have everything I would love in my next car (luggage space for instance). You seem to feel the need to "stick up for" your choice of Model X - don't worry, I'm certainly not against you, like I said, a Model X would be a good option for me (bar the ridiculous price) IF I can be convinced that long range journeys take no extra time or inconveniance over current diesel/petrol journeys - which currently they don't. If I want a car for Case 1, I would look at the Model X as I think it's a brilliant piece of kit. I'm certainly not "against it" as you say.
For any Case 2 scenario of local-only driving I could look at pretty much any EV on the market.

That's why I don't bother these days relying to these kind of posts, it literally is pointless sharing real world experience with people who have already made up their minds.
I can see you're "not bothering" from your third reply after initially "not bothering" in post #283 ;) :p
Simply saying "I have no range anxiety" isn't really giving anyone much info is it?
I have specifically pointed out the number of extra stops and the amount of extra time to a journey the length of the UK which I will do more of as my little one gets older.
So to share useful information, how many stops did you do for that journey, how long did it take, did you have a baby in tow? Was it similar to Tesla's recommended 3 stops and adding 20% to your journey time?
Useful objective information like this will inform us punters much more and probably WILL end up winning us over as we see the tech improve.


Like I said, I'm almost ready to go EV for local commute if costs come down but not convinced by a long shot for longer distances.
 
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KyleS1

Distinguished Member
None of this actually takes away from the cost of the bloody things. I’d dearly love to convert to an EV but the prices are ridonkulous.
 

LV426

Administrator
Staff member
I'd suggest that it is a rare individual (and, by that, I do NOT mean they don't exist) that would drive solidly for the full range of an ICE, or a fairly well specced EV for that matter, without a break. A 300 mile range (say) represents about 5 hours driving on dual and motorway roads. An hour (say) break after 4+ hours is probably reasonable to most. For a snack or meal and drink, physical needs, etc. Even if such a break were (only) 30 minutes (and that IS a liely minimum timeframe)
- with an ICE you have to add the few minutes it takes to drive to a pump, fill, pay, and then drive away to another parking space while you R&R (or vice versa). So your 30 becomes ~40.
- with an EV you drive to the charge point, connect, and then leave it right there while you R&R for (say) an hour; and then you drive off.
Your "slow" charging of the EV has cost you 20 minutes or so - assuming that (like most, I'd suggest) you would be taking a similar break anyway.
It's part of the thought process that EV Charging is an activity you plan to do in parallel with some other activity you would want or need to do anyway; and not as a discrete activity.
 

gangzoom

Well-known Member
None of this actually takes away from the cost of the bloody things. I’d dearly love to convert to an EV but the prices are ridonkulous.
That I 100% agree with, price is still by far the biggest problem with EVs. Range is not.
 

KyleS1

Distinguished Member
I'd suggest that it is a rare individual (and, by that, I do NOT mean they don't exist) that would drive solidly for the full range of an ICE, or a fairly well specced EV for that matter, without a break. A 300 mile range (say) represents about 5 hours driving on dual and motorway roads. An hour (say) break after 4+ hours is probably reasonable to most. For a snack or meal and drink, physical needs, etc. Even if such a break were (only) 30 minutes (and that IS a liely minimum timeframe)
- with an ICE you have to add the few minutes it takes to drive to a pump, fill, pay, and then drive away to another parking space while you R&R (or vice versa). So your 30 becomes ~40.
- with an EV you drive to the charge point, connect, and then leave it right there while you R&R for (say) an hour; and then you drive off.
Your "slow" charging of the EV has cost you 20 minutes or so - assuming that (like most, I'd suggest) you would be taking a similar break anyway.
It's part of the thought process that EV Charging is an activity you plan to do in parallel with some other activity you would want or need to do anyway; and not as a discrete activity.
Im one of those people. I regularly drove from Ipswich to Plymouth with no stops and arrive on empty. I prefer to get there and enjoy the destination rather than keep stopping. Now I have kids, not stopping isn’t an option any more. :(
 

KyleS1

Distinguished Member
That I 100% agree with, price is still by far the biggest problem with EVs. Range is not.
I looked at a leaf and couldn’t get one under £30k new.
Second hand starts to see battery capacity restrictions.
 

G a f f e r

Moderator
I'd suggest that it is a rare individual (and, by that, I do NOT mean they don't exist) that would drive solidly for the full range of an ICE, or a fairly well specced EV for that matter, without a break.
Sleeping baby whom I didn't want to disturb and a quick 10min stop for a nappy change - she slept most of the way making it the easiest option :D.

Back to EV, yes the cost is prohibitive now.
I think the government will eventually make it so difficult to own a diesel (increase fuel prices, increase road tax, increase insurance etc etc) that even though I plan on keep my derv for 10yrs I think it'll be more likely within 5yrs that it will become less viable to run it (plus, being a 330, servicing costs will increase and parts a nightmare) - where it will then possibly be replaced by an EV for my commuting.
This is the main attraction to me of EV - technically much much easier to both run and service (fewer parts)....but offer me one at half the cost please.
 

IronGiant

Moderator
I have to LOL at some of these posts. We have a Leaf with a ~75 mile range. We have a Skoda Octavia VRS Estate with a 600 mile range. We went on holiday to Scotland this summer and in the Leaf we would not have got there. It was over 100 miles between Inverness and our destination with no charging points.

It's all well and good saying you can buy an EV car with 20 miles range for 30K but not everyone can afford that.
 

gangzoom

Well-known Member
It's all well and good saying you can buy an EV car with 20 miles range for 30K but not everyone can afford that.

Looks like the new MG has a range of about 150 miles for £22ksih, but that price is 100% been subsidized by MG, its very likely MG is lossing money on everyone been sold. Equally the Hyundai/Kia must be getting cheaper packs from LG than anyone else for Kona and eNero.

Even Musk is admitting building EVs isn't turning out as cheap as anticipated.....Bare in mind back in 2016 Tesla was projecting been able to see a base Model 3 for $35k BEFORE incentives and turn a profit. The cheapest UK car is £39500, after a £3500 discounted, and Tesla are still struggling to hit profit margain targets.

Range is not an issue for EVs, and actually haven't been for a decade. A 2008 Tesla Roadster had a range of 240 miles. A 24kWh Leaf is essentially the same size as a 60kWh Leaf. The reason Nissan didn't put in a 60kWh battery back in 2011 when the Leaf came out was because of price, not tech. However even now a 60kWh Leaf is not cheap, £40k+ with options.



We have to see how VW prices the ID 3, but if it came in at £40k+ I really wouldn't be supposed. The biggest barrier for EV adoption is now price/cost, I don't think any manufacture wouldn't want to offer a cheaper product, Tesla for sure would love to sell a £30k Model 3. But the margains just aren't there, currently selling EVs is not a sustainable bussiness so prices are sadly not likely to fall for a while yet.
 
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KyleS1

Distinguished Member
Electric cars are not going to save the planet on their own. A LOT more needs to be done elsewhere as well.
 

Delvey

Distinguished Member
I'd suggest that it is a rare individual (and, by that, I do NOT mean they don't exist) that would drive solidly for the full range of an ICE, or a fairly well specced EV for that matter, without a break. A 300 mile range (say) represents about 5 hours driving on dual and motorway roads. An hour (say) break after 4+ hours is probably reasonable to most. For a snack or meal and drink, physical needs, etc. Even if such a break were (only) 30 minutes (and that IS a liely minimum timeframe)
- with an ICE you have to add the few minutes it takes to drive to a pump, fill, pay, and then drive away to another parking space while you R&R (or vice versa). So your 30 becomes ~40.
- with an EV you drive to the charge point, connect, and then leave it right there while you R&R for (say) an hour; and then you drive off.
Your "slow" charging of the EV has cost you 20 minutes or so - assuming that (like most, I'd suggest) you would be taking a similar break anyway.
It's part of the thought process that EV Charging is an activity you plan to do in parallel with some other activity you would want or need to do anyway; and not as a discrete activity.
I travelled from Manchester to Cornwall in June. I total trip of 320 miles. I stopped at 3 service stations along the way, as we had 2 dogs in situ, and one stop for lunch. Out of those 3 service stations, how many had fast charging? None. They were all 7 kwh as far as I am aware.
How long could you charge for free? 30 minutes. Maximum they allowed even when paying was 2 hours. Even in a Model X, you would likely struggle to travel 320 miles on a single charge. And how much extra juice would 14kw get you? Not a lot.
My diesel Toyota completed the journey down to Cornwall and back on one tank of fuel. Charging an EV, unless you have access to super chargers and have a Tesla, is not as simple as charging in parallel with something else.
 

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