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euro1080.tv updated

Discussion in 'General TV Discussions Forum' started by TobyS, Jun 20, 2003.

  1. TobyS

    TobyS
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    Hello all,

    Well the euro1080 website has been updated and I have to say it all looks pretty well researched. I'd like to think that this is going to be more than just a dream, but I can't help but feel this is all a little too adventurous.

    From what I could gather from the website, there is some form of financial backing and interest from industry players, but is it going to be enough? I would imagine it would take quite a bit of investment from cinemas if they are to show HDTV events, and from the cable companies if they're to bring this channel into our homes. Now, I don't know about Telewest, but I do know that trying to get NTL to invest in something it like trying to get blood from a stone.

    Even though I've recently invested in a 40" RPTV I would happily fork out another few grand for a HDTV, even if it was for just the one channel, (presumably the STB would also pick up SDTV too), but I'm not sure I'm in the majority. What do you guys think? Is euro1080 nothing more than a pipe dream?

    I'm sure there are a lot of us who are keen to embrace HDTV in the UK, but does anyone actually think we will ever see it? Personally I think it will eventually make its way over here, but not for several more years to come. Hopefully, by this time though, the price of HDTV screens will have plummeted to an acceptable level (or is that just wishful thinking?).

    Oh, this is my first post for a while, so please be kind. I apologize if I'm repeating what's already been said, or am just plain boring you.

    Regards

    Toby
     
  2. Luc

    Luc
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    Cool. So what will we eventually need to import an HDTV box from the states to watch all this, or a new dish and box, or what?
     
  3. Chris Muriel

    Chris Muriel
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    To define the necessary equipment we would have to know what broadcasting standard they will use.
    I did not see that made clear within all the marketing BS.
    Surely they will not use the USA ATSC standard.
    I didn't think the DVB had any HDTV standard as yet.

    Chris Muriel (normally Manchester but in Limerick for the next week).
     
  4. Dutch

    Dutch
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    Hi Chris,

    I think they will use the 1080i/50 system as used in Australia. It makes sense to use an "off the shelf" system rather than spend millions developing a totally new one. Myself, I would prefer 720p or , of course 1080p! :smoke:

    Steve
     
  5. kev_melon

    kev_melon
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    I agree with Dutch that it makes more sense to use 1080/50i as it's already being used in Oz, so that's probably what we'll get.

    Still, would be nice to have 1080p!:rolleyes:
     
  6. mattmarsden

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    Its a shame they don't use 1080/60i as this would make it compatible with all american broadcasts. It would also make it easier for converting film based material to progressive.
     
  7. Paul Smith

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    Hi,
    Actually I would prefer the 1080/50i Austrailian standard to the 60hz american standard.

    The one thing that lets US HDTV down is the judder introduced on Film material when it's converted from 48hz to 60hz.
    It seems as though 60hz was chosen in the US just for Historic reasons, (as it matches the old NTSC TV system).

    I think it would be far better still to introduce a 1080/48i system to finally link film and TV together (perhaps even with the possiblity of sending film material as 1080/24p), now that really would be something.:)

    Paul.
     
  8. Chris Muriel

    Chris Muriel
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    The 48 Hz idea is wonderfully logical and makes perfect sense.
    However, I can never see it happening due to the amount of TV redesign required let alone explaing the reason to Joe Public.
    In fact I would modify to 96 Hz for less flicker (which would cost even more for the industry to implement)
    It'll happen when hell freezes over (I am an Eagles fan).

    Chris Muriel, Manchester. :(
     
  9. Chris Muriel

    Chris Muriel
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    I have had it confirmed that it will be 1080i.......
    Pasted below from email reply :

    thank you very much for your mail and interest in Euro1080.
    At this point we cannot yet answer all of your technical questions, because some of the issues still have to be decided on (like conditional access, and so on).
    I can tell you that we will be using 1080i.
    Please allow us get back in touch with you later on to inform you more in detail.
    Thank you very much in advance.
    Best regards,
    kristin
    kristin spiessens
    Euro1080

    Chris Muriel, Manchester, UK
     
  10. iwilson

    iwilson
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    As I understand it the reason for using 50hz is clocking. Europe and Australia use 50hz for power. The US 60hz. I guess most consumer displays use AC power for clocking.
     
  11. Brianws

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    Yes sort of. The 50 hz field rate for PAL and the 60 rate for NTSC were chosen to roughly equated to the electric supply frequencies of Europe and USA. This was to avoid rolling frame bands on the TV receivers of the late 1960's which used thermionic valves. The field rates are actually derived and locked to the Colour Sub Carriers of PAL / NTSC composite video.

    Present day TVs don’t have these problems so the continued use of these field scanning rates seems strange. The film world appears to be fixed to 24 frames per second, so surely TV especial HDTV should directly relate to the film frame rate to provide best quality transfer from film to HDTV ie no frame scalers needed.

    On this basis the suggested field rate of 48 Hz for 1080 has as lot to commend it because it matches the film frame speed. Does anyone know why the Americans have stuck with a 60 hz field rate for HDTV?
     
  12. cosaw

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    Brianws, I agree with you things need setting straight. We need a sorce for tellys at 24fps and progressive (at a lesser number of lines than 1080 if need be) to run at 72Hz or even 96Hz. Lets get rid of interlacing. Then sources like dvd could be encoded 24fps progressive. If any tweaking is needed thereafter for old or uncompatable tellys you could have a set top box for backward compatability but the technology would be part of new tellys dvd players etc.

    Theoretically PAL dvds should be a higher video specification than NTSC but this isn't always the case because of bad transfers or NTSC to PAL transfers. Plus pitch shifting in audio when film is sped up for 25fps 50Hzi, nobody follows the same standard.

    Keep sources the same as film and let the playback technology adapt!

    cosaw
     
  13. Wayne Moule

    Wayne Moule
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    So if it's going to be 1080 etc,what kind of ball park figure are we talking about for a HD SAT box then?
     
  14. GadgetObsessed

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    To be honest I don't understand all the fuss about this proposed start up. OK - I'm sure that the picture quality will be superb but the chance to get 4 hours a day of looped European content doesn't excite me much. (They are desperate enough to list the Eurovision Song Contest as one of their key events!)

    Does anyone have a feel for when HiDef broadcasts will hit mainstream broadcasting? (i.e. BBC, ITV, C4, C5, Sky One/Sports/Movies) Are we still a decade away from this?
     
  15. Cliff

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    I think the Americans are using 60 Hertz so that old video material can be shown without too much fuss. - a legacy. The same will apply here. It would require extra conversions if we had HDTV at 48Hertz- although ideal for film it is not the best for EastEnders.
    Of course we could show old video stuff at 48 and reduce the pitch!
     
  16. Paul Smith

    Paul Smith
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    I feel it would be a terrible waste of HDTV if it were forced to show standard definition Eastenders, so why do it!
    (If you want to watch Eastenders on a HDTV channel then it should be shot in proper HDTV quality).

    The back catalogue of HDTV suitable material is almost all Film!, so I think the UK HDTV standard should match that, why match it to a poorer quality standard like PAL? (or NTSC?).

    I'm sure the US would also prefer us to be 48hz instead of 50hz as well (as it's easier for them to convert to their 60hz system).



    Paul.
     
  17. jim.rae

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    The BBC has made a number of programmes in HD and we have seen dubs of them on screen without knowing it.

    As the national public sector broadcaster, you would expect them to be in the forefront of things.

    No word at all though when we might see the results at home.

    I was hoping something might be said at the IFA conference...
     
  18. Dutch

    Dutch
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    ...and of course all recent TV productions shot on 16 and 35 mm film are suitable for transferring to HD video resolutions. A good bit of future-proofing, methinks.

    Steve
     
  19. Brianws

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    I think the BBC moved into super 16 film over ten years ago to save costs. Super 16 has a bigger frame area than ordinary 16mm film and it was supposed to be a cheaper alternative to 35mm film.
    However Super 16 is not really a good enough standard for HDTV so the BBC now master some material in a HDTV as do some of the UK based production houses. Cynically I think this is probably more a requirement for co productions which are to be shown in America.
    It is very sad that the BBC are more interested in a multitude of mediocre channels than any HDTV, seems no light at the end of the tunnel in the UK for broadcast HDTV.
     
  20. RASH PATEL

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    Hi ,

    Talk about HDTV!!!, they won't even consider broadcasting in
    Dolby Digital!!!
     
  21. Boris Blank

    Boris Blank
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  22. kev_melon

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    A glitzy event to promote HDTV in Europe! Nice!:p

    But the thing I find exciting is that there's going to be a test-run between 12-16 September. The mind boggles as to how we'll receive it though!

    HDTV in Europe :clap: :clap: :clap: :D :D :D


    Sorry folks, can't hide my happiness!
     
  23. Kramer

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    "you will be able to capture a testrun on your satellite dish"

    :clap:

    Need more info. Transponder, settings, format etc...

    Great stuff - looking forward to this :smashin:
     
  24. Boris Blank

    Boris Blank
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    Conspicuous by its absence - this is likely an event aimed at major broadcasters who already have (or have access to) the right receiving/display equipment rather than us mere mortals. Even though the carrier is likely Astra ( on satellite 3a?? - if so, our dishes aren't even pointing in the right place in the sky) I'd be surprised if we even picked up the signal let alone see a picture - our existing boxes won't be compatible with HDTV in any way shape or form.

    I am not aware of ANY HDTV consumer Sat receivers currently available in Europe so I really don't think this is aimed at us quite yet. (The consumer-level Smart HDTV sat receiver isn't released until next year)

    Whatever, its good news. It actually looks as if Euro1080 have done it!! Quite a feat.
    Regards,
    Paul
     
  25. Kramer

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    Anyone any more info on this? The 13th - only 5 days away!

    SatDVB here & ready :)
     
  26. GagHalfrunt

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    I've never understood why modern TVs can't support multiple resolutions/refresh rates anyway, in which case it would never be a problem.

    It would just flick between 48Hz (or 72Hz?) High-def and 50/60Hz for standard video. Afterall most TVs support 50 and 60 already.
     
  27. BrianCurran

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    Kramer

    Are you using a PC based SatDVB setup.
    If so, any details? card/lnb/dish etc?

    I'm looking for card at the moment but not sure which one to get.

    Regards
     
  28. Kramer

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    Hi Brian.

    Yep, Sat DVB as well as the usual Sky digibox etc...

    I've a selection of DVB cards but tend to use bog standard Skystar 2s. Main use is for Sat DSL but nice to have access to loads of freeview €uropean channels too :)

    DVB Viewer is my software of choice.

    HTH.

    :)
     
  29. BrianCurran

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    Thanks Kramer

    There is a new Skystar 2 just released, I assume you are using the original model? I seen the original advertised for 40 quid and thought they were just too cheap to be any use!! http://www.technisat.com/

    Can DVB viewer control a motorised mount?

    Regards
     

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