EU threatens to block exports of Vaccine

AndyC_772

Active Member
Here is the EU AZ Contract
Fantastic... you've captured the full version with bookmarks.

In an absolutely hilarious feat of technical ineptitude, whoever redacted large portions of that document completely failed to notice that the entire (unredacted) text is still included. Just open the bookmarks tab and it's all right there.

 

tapzilla2k

Distinguished Member
Boris gets all the flack when things go wrong, like old people being released from hospital and infecting care homes..

He deserves that flack. He's caused a lot of death and destruction by his dithering and delay alongside his inability to learn from his mistakes.

Well in the case of vaccine procurement he was very much responsible for putting Kate Bingham in charge. Had it all gone wrong, Boris would have been accused of cronyism and dishing out money to his mates. She was, after all the wife of a Tory MP. But she was the right person for the job.

The vaccine taskforce was a joint decision made by Johnson, Chris Whitty and Patrick Vallance. I have no doubt Whitty and Vallance had a hand in selecting the experts who sit on that task force. Without said experts advising Kate Bingham she'd have been up a creek without a paddle.


Boris, should be given credit where credit is due

And he deserves to be taken to task for all the mistakes he's made throughout this pandemic. Absolving him of his mistakes just because he managed to not mess up vaccine development is simply not on. We are likely going to face further pandemics over the next century and we need to be ready for them.

Apparently she broke open a bottle of wine after hearing last night that another vaccine she had bought millions of doses from, came good.


Some of the risks she's taken have paid off, and she should be commended for it.
 

Nick74

Distinguished Member
Who put Bingham in charge again? 🤔

The same people that put Dido Harding in charge. If you're going to take credit when things go well, you have to be prepared to accept criticism when they don't.

Let's be honest, vaccine procurement and rollout is perhaps the only example of the government truly succeeding in any aspect of its Covid-19 response, making sensible use of NHS planning and logistical resources to facilitate delivery.

There's a reason this succeeded. There was an underlying appreciation that both public and private sectors could take charge in areas they worked best.

That's how a mixed economy works best in practice. It shouldn't be subject to ideological whims that consistently promote one over the other.
 

Aj33

Distinguished Member
Then I take it you explicitly and whole heartedly congratulate the government and its members including the PM on a job well done with regards to vaccination procurement and roll out (so far)?
 

Nick74

Distinguished Member
Then I take it you explicitly and whole heartedly congratulate the government and its members including the PM on a job well done with regards to vaccination procurement and roll out (so far)?

I've already praised the rollout. That praise isn't entirely without caveat, but yes, this has, broadly speaking, gone well so far and we should acknowledge and thank those responsible.

You seem keen to assign full credit to the government when things go well.

As I've noted, the right decision was made in terms of how to approach this because, for once, I think, Johnson wasn't blindly ideological, or he was at least willing to relinquish a degree of control to people that were less ideologically uncompromising.
 

Aj33

Distinguished Member
You seem keen to assign full credit to the government when things go well.
Obviously it isn’t. But nice leap of imagination.
 

Aj33

Distinguished Member
Short and sweet...

 

Nick74

Distinguished Member
Obviously it isn’t. But nice leap of imagination.

You requested an explicit and wholehearted congratulation to all government members and the PM. If that isn't assigning full credit to the government, then I don't know how else to interpret what you wrote.

How am I making a leap of imagination? Your dismissive response doesn't alter the meaning of your earlier phrasing.

All the same, I don't want a lengthy semantic discussion. If you're observing that you're not assigning full credit to the government, I'll accept that clarification.
 

Aj33

Distinguished Member
You requested an explicit and wholehearted congratulation to all government members and the PM. If that isn't assigning full credit to the government, then I don't know how else to interpret what you wrote.

How am I making a leap of imagination? Your dismissive response doesn't alter the meaning of your earlier phrasing.

All the same, I don't want a lengthy semantic discussion. If you're observing that you're not assigning full credit to the government, I'll accept that clarification.
The use of explicit and wholehearted were not used to assign full credit to the government. You have misunderstood. It’s for their involvement in the process.

I assumed you would caveat anything you said to the nth degree, so thought I would see if you could just say “well done chaps”.

here’s something we can agree on, I can be arsed with a semantics argument either.
 

Nick74

Distinguished Member
The use of explicit and wholehearted were not used to assign full credit to the government. You have misunderstood. It’s for their involvement in the process.

I assumed you would caveat anything you said to the nth degree, so thought I would see if you could just say “well done chaps”.

I am saying "well done chaps." I'm simply making clear that "chaps" (and "chapesses") refers to all involved - the government, in strategic terms on this one, along with all involved in the procurement and delivery of the vaccine.

As I noted, it's an example of best use of both public and private sector - recognising the relative strengths of each. You may read that as me adding caveats. Rather I'm acknowledging the scope of the operation.

That seems a compelling narrative in terms of what's happened. I'd go further and argue that this success points toward the merits of a well mixed economy. If Johnson learns important lessons from this and becomes less ideological, all the better. I'll have to wait for the evidence on that one.
 

Nick74

Distinguished Member
I do notice that when things go wrong, Boris is blamed singularly and its personal. When things go right it is a joint effort...

That depends of the degree of involvement elsewhere. For instance, on repeated failures to lock-down in a timely and comprehensive fashion, I do blame the prime minister. That's his call, albeit in concert with his scientific advisors. Even then I sense there were tensions involved.

To get that wrong the first time was poor judgement, but we can perhaps afford some leeway due to lack of knowledge and the novel nature of the pandemic. To make that same bad call repeatedly is a different matter. It's a singular judgement call and it's on the prime minister.

The decisions over vaccine procurement may have been made by the prime minister. If he got this right we should duly afford credit, but it's an enormous logistical exercise involving countless parties and bodies, all of which had to play a part. Widespread congratulation therefore seems appropriate.

I'm not making this distinction because I want to be awkward. I'm making this distinction because that's my understanding of how these different aspects of the pandemic response were organised and played out.
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
Piss poor from the EU, piss poor from any not willing to criticise their course of action over the last 24 hours, and equally piss poor from any salivating in celebration at a failure that will cost lives. A terrible situation that has unfolded in the midst of an ongoing international crisis.

Now co-operation is urgently needed on whichever fronts necessary to ensure lives aren't the collateral damage in all this.

I'm sure much of the rest of the world looks on in horror too (and some in glee no doubt) at another European shambles. At least the UK is smelling of some rose scent for a change.
 

Marv

Member
WHO are pissed too,

WHO EU vacine block.png


 

tapzilla2k

Distinguished Member
I do notice that when things go wrong, Boris is blamed singularly and its personal. When things go right it is a joint effort...

It was a joint effort. Without the Oxford University Jenner Institute getting to work in January 2020 on a vaccine we'd likely not be having this precise discussion now. Back in January Boris Johnson was playing down the threat and not attending COBRA meetings until things took a serious turn.

AstraZeneca has to be commended for getting vaccine production at industrial scales in the UK, working out the problems before it was even known if the vaccine would gain approval. That's where the EU went wrong, they took too long in signing a contract with AstraZeneca for the vaccine. Now they are in a mad scramble to deflect attention away from it's mistakes. The UK Government's part was to provide the funding and deciding to go it alone on the vaccine procurement front.

By the time it became clear to Downing Street that Covid would be the most serious national emergency since the war, the scientists at Oxford and elsewhere were already on their way.


The longer it takes to vaccinate the global population, the longer this pandemic is going to last for and the greater the chance the virus mutates into variants that could find new ways to get around the immune systems defences. Squabbling or crowing over this particular incident is irrelevant to the problem we face as a species against COVID-19.
 

Cliff

Distinguished Member
It was a joint effort. Without the Oxford University Jenner Institute getting to work in January 2020 on a vaccine we'd likely not be having this precise discussion now. Back in January Boris Johnson was playing down the threat and not attending COBRA meetings until things took a serious turn.

AstraZeneca has to be commended for getting vaccine production at industrial scales in the UK, working out the problems before it was even known if the vaccine would gain approval. That's where the EU went wrong, they took too long in signing a contract with AstraZeneca for the vaccine. Now they are in a mad scramble to deflect attention away from it's mistakes. The UK Government's part was to provide the funding and deciding to go it alone on the vaccine procurement front.




The longer it takes to vaccinate the global population, the longer this pandemic is going to last for and the greater the chance the virus mutates into variants that could find new ways to get around the immune systems defences. Squabbling or crowing over this particular incident is irrelevant to the problem we face as a species against COVID-19.
I agree. It was a joint effort. Similarly, many other decisions have been made jointly, along with his advisors and SAGE, which we can now look back on and say the timing was wrong.
Lets not get personal when the decision is bad and spread the credit when it is good.
 

Nick74

Distinguished Member
I see certain papers are full of triumphalism, with the Mail hailing Johnson's "Falkland's moment."

Give me a ******* break.

The EU screwed up hugely. I don't excuse their actions, in any way. That doesn't transform Johnson into a statesman. Criticise the EU, by all means, but don't give Johnson a free pass for everything that preceded this moment. We'll never hear the end of it from sections of our media. This is going to be insufferable.

That's how Johnson gets out of all of this, via a media that will ultimately wipe the slate clean.
 

apolloa

Distinguished Member
I see certain papers are full of triumphalism, with the Mail hailing Johnson's "Falkland's moment."

Give me a ******* break.

The EU screwed up hugely. I don't excuse their actions, in any way. That doesn't transform Johnson into a statesman. Criticise the EU, by all means, but don't give Johnson a free pass for everything that preceded this moment. We'll never hear the end of it from sections of our media. This is going to be insufferable.

That's how Johnson gets out of all of this, via a media that will ultimately wipe the slate clean.

What exactly do they think Boris has actually done to deserve a comment like that? I mean he is the one who signed the U.K. into this article 16 after all. Typical Mail reporting I guess.
 

Belzok

Well-known Member
I see certain papers are full of triumphalism, with the Mail hailing Johnson's "Falkland's moment."

Give me a ******* break.

The EU screwed up hugely. I don't excuse their actions, in any way. That doesn't transform Johnson into a statesman. Criticise the EU, by all means, but don't give Johnson a free pass for everything that preceded this moment. We'll never hear the end of it from sections of our media. This is going to be insufferable.

That's how Johnson gets out of all of this, via a media that will ultimately wipe the slate clean.
Maybe just give him the props for the UK being months ahead of the EU rolling out the vaccine, far too quick to criticise, far to reluctant to praise.

It's as though the criticism has some political bias...

Again, it's the old rollercoaster of Labour to Conservative governments in this country. Labour spaff billions of money against the wall, that we don't have, to give us public services and then Conservatives have to put in austerity measure to balance the budget, rinse and repeat.

Of course it always makes Conservatives the bad guys, perhaps if we could have a labour government that is moderate and not in the pocket of unions we may do better.
 

NatTheGooner

Active Member
I can’t imagine the frustration of EU citizens watching Belgian made vaccines being sent to the UK. I’m also staggered by the speed at which we’re getting people vaccinated here, I saw an impressive socially distanced queue yesterday morning at 8.30am stood in the drizzle, it lifted my spirits.
 

Nick74

Distinguished Member
Maybe just give him the props for the UK being months ahead of the EU rolling out the vaccine, far too quick to criticise, far to reluctant to praise.

It's as though the criticism has some political bias...

Again, it's the old rollercoaster of Labour to Conservative governments in this country. Labour spaff billions of money against the wall, that we don't have, to give us public services and then Conservatives have to put in austerity measure to balance the budget, rinse and repeat.

Of course it always makes Conservatives the bad guys, perhaps if we could have a labour government that is moderate and not in the pocket of unions we may do better.

I have given him credit.

As for the rest of your post, especially the penultimate paragraph, that's a nice story. It isn't a true story, but why let that get in the way.

 

Belzok

Well-known Member
Nice quote from a random site that says it doesn't like the mainstream economic view in its about page.

You really don't think that Labour governments haven't lowered taxes fir the masses and spent more per capita on public services, really??
 

maddy

Distinguished Member
I read a while back that Matt Hancock had vetoed the original Oxford/Merck deal but having read this I think I'm ready to forgive him a lot more:


"He was just meant to confirm he was happy, and then it would have happened immediately," said the former adviser. "But he wasn't, and overruled officials to block the deal."

Reports have suggested that the Oxford scientists were unsure whether the deal with Merck had strong enough provisions for supplying poorer countries with vaccines. Mr Hancock's objection was more local and political. He wanted to make sure there was enough for UK citizens. The rest of the world could come later.

I'd even go as far as saying I hope he put his Netflix subscription on expenses.
 

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