Epson TW9400/7400 information

Luminated67

Distinguished Member
hi luminated, once calibrated there isnt that much in peak output between these especially if using the p3 filter for WCG :)

HDR is a good draw card on the JVC...it literally is set forget and to fantastic end result that looks at frame by frame in alaysis. if one thing epson could add to their range it would be DTM but likely cost a bit given the processor they'd need to include :)
Yeah this is what I am told about the N series, I am sure Kong vs Godzilla would have be one of those movie I wish I had had a N5/7.
I dont know where in australia KT is but we are actually quite spoilt for demo ability. literally there are half a dozen stores around me in half hour to hour i can think off to go see these and properly setup as well ! some stores even have them so can do side by side :) this is all in theory for even where we are - as we have been in locked down with covid for weeks again now.. and two of larger states in australia are in that situation which suspect KT is in aswell. doesnt make comparisons and heading out to see for self a possibility :) prior to covid and lock downs we even had opportunity to visit folk see even in homely settings with GTG and such we'd have.. hopefully we return to that sort of thing in eh coming year ! :D
Northern Ireland isn't plentiful with dealers and those we do have don't really go to town on their demo room or have any knowledge on the products they are selling which is why I prefer to buy from the dealers on here like @Rickyj at Kalibrate or Allan at IdealAV.
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
Northern Ireland isn't plentiful with dealers and those we do have don't really go to town on their demo room or have any knowledge on the products they are selling which is why I prefer to buy from the dealers on here like @Rickyj at Kalibrate or Allan at IdealAV.
we are just very lucky i think.and been a long time like this... the very first epson(tw2000) i saw ever at a retailer was calibrated with the in-house calibrator they have. retailers definitely take care here. even flat panels when i bought my plasma it came with a calibration deal. just the way the specialist stores go to set themselves apart from the box movers I think. still am with you - fair to say not all the stores are like this... not all stores do this for sure... there are some more into hifi ... or lower rung more glorified box movers, not all with sufficient range or seem to care.

We do however have a great community of enthusiasts aswell. And we (where we are) do/did get around (when it was possible) :D I know this has helped me immensely and i too have given back on quite a few opportunities over the years as well. If there aren't dealers to demo... reach out to the community folk... its amazing what is out there and how generous folk are ... and what a great opportunity it is to check stuff out in homely settings .. calibrated, uncalibrated, dedicated room to undedicated and all sorts in between :D i know a challenge still though especially for KT... no chance for visitors in the home either .. but that time will come around again...
 

Alaric

Well-known Member
Well I’m not going back into htpc as I’ve been there done that and don’t want to do it again, now I use a shield instead which is generally easier and less hassle.

Aren’t lumagen really expensive?

Yeah.....I USED to be a big HTPC fan, back to the days of the Creative labs DX2R DVD card, and was shocked when i saw a DVD layer change as i'd not had that because of the PC. Played with many video cards and pro audio cards back in the day. Had Bluray and HD-DVD implementations and in my old cinema had rack based solutions with a flip out screen as ex IT sys admin. But I was also running an old Barco CRT and you needed a PC in the early days because it was that or thousands on a line doubler/trippler/quadrupler.


I'd love a decent Lumagen but they're multiple thousands and it always feels wrong to have a processor more expensive that the whole projector!
 

Alaric

Well-known Member
A home cinema setup is a big commitment financially, especially if you want to do it properly with a room equipped to take full advantage of the image a projector can produce. I did mine on a budget by building my speakers apart from subs which I bought S/H through eBay and doing everything myself but I’m still in my hobby somewhere between £7.5-8.5K and I reckon that was extremely cheap by normal standards.

Go for a branded 7.2 speaker system with a mid level AVR and add a big name screen and even a JVC N5 and then get someone in to do all the work you could easily double my price and more.

I've built my kit up over decades, often with second hand stuff. My mirage speakers were silly money (to me), but a decent second hand buy and i've probably had them now for 20yrs. I got spoilt early on with cheap second hand Yamaha 3090 and when got the cash bought a second hand Z9 and still have it as a power amp. My subs are Paradigm Servo 15's. I bought the first new on a RS deal and then a second on the used market. Still not found anything close to them for their price, but then they were sold way under market value in the UK.
Speakers and Amps don't change massively in terms of tech and i liked the sound they made back when and I still do.

I've added a new Marantz receiver to add Atmos and keep up with the newer formats. Dirac (minidsp) to EQ the sound, and the Marantz app means i've Audyssey and the inbuilt amps driving the small ceiling speakers (2nd hand Mirage satellite speakers, with DIY ceiling light boss adaptors)

I've also a load of buttkickers, tactile transducers and a BOSS platform, with BEQ.

The Epson was new, because tech had gotten there. I'd been through 4 CRTs, a dlp and sxrd, but tech has moved on in leaps on projectors and it was high end JVC second hand or the Epson.

I'm somewhere between high end and second hand bargain basement, built up over decades!
 

Harold88

Member
I'd love a decent Lumagen but they're multiple thousands and it always feels wrong to have a processor more expensive that the whole projector!
Also they are already 5 years or more from what I know and it's strange to pay so much for something that can, any day, be replaced by a much cheaper competitor.
 

Alaric

Well-known Member
Also they are already 5 years or more from what I know and it's strange to pay so much for something that can, any day, be replaced by a much cheaper competitor.

To be fair, they update software and hardware periodically. The core design / format hasn't changed much, but they're now up to 10 I/O with 18gb HDMI - Looking through a few threads, the cost of the main chip means that smaller / cheaper boxes are less practical.

I also had a skim over some articles and it looks like the only competition is MadVR, which is PC based and has issues with HDMI input (HDCP). There are drives or Ripping and maybe some ways to get online stuff, but it's certainly a faff.

At some point, someone will pull decent DTM into a player or as per JVC into the projector. I'd like to see a decent 3D LUT there too, and LG have certainly experimented with their TVs.

The Lumagens do more, but for 95% of people, those two things would do all we really want!
 

Luminated67

Distinguished Member
If someone came up with a BluRay player than included DMT for both disc and online services like Netflix and Prime this would be the best solution for everyone because no need to upgrade to a new projector.

To be honest the image I was getting with Kong vs Godzilla was extremely impressive and this included the blacks, I’m sure the JVC is better but I definitely didn’t feel I was missing out.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
If someone came up with a BluRay player than included DMT for both disc and online services like Netflix and Prime this would be the best solution for everyone because no need to upgrade to a new projector.

To be honest the image I was getting with Kong vs Godzilla was extremely impressive and this included the blacks, I’m sure the JVC is better but I definitely didn’t feel I was missing out.


JVC are a different ball game now. £10k is a lot of money and we're only getting an entry-level model for them.
 

Luminated67

Distinguished Member
JVC are a different ball game now. £10k is a lot of money and we're only getting an entry-level model for them.
I thought there was chat they will be bringing out a lamp based model below the NZ7?
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
I thought there was chat they will be bringing out a lamp based model below the NZ7?


Probably next year. The bulb ones are low-ish in Lumen though, I'm not sure they interest me as my screen is big so I am stuffed.

Trying to get hold of an N5/N7 demo at the moment in my place. If it has a perceived brightness similar to my 9300 with 1300 hours in dyanmic medium lamp mode, I'll buy one and forget about lasers until they become more affordable.
 

Harold88

Member
If someone came up with a BluRay player than included DMT for both disc and online services like Netflix and Prime this would be the best solution for everyone because no need to upgrade to a new projector.

Hmm, as far as I know the vast majority of ,,HDR'' on streaming is actualy DV so there is no need for DTM isn't it?

I have tryied to watch DV content with both the tone mapping done by TW9400 and by OPPO 203.
Well for HDR movies TW9400 is doing a better job but for DV there is no way I can watch it without OPPO HDR-SDR conversion, as it has the ability to process DV. How well is doing it I have no clue but the content looks good to me.

And before anyone asks, no, OPPO does not have streaming apps but I have the Apple TV conected to OPPO's HDMI input so I am able to use the video processing of this BD player for Apple TV, consoles and other stuff that doesn't have tone mapping.

I am sure that, if OPPO wouldn't have left the BD Players buisiness, now we could have bought a BD Player perfectly capable of doing DTM. Unfortunately for the whole AV community around the world, they left the Middle Earth way too soon :)
 

Harold88

Member
Probably next year. The bulb ones are low-ish in Lumen though, I'm not sure they interest me as my screen is big so I am stuffed.

That's the thing, it's much easyer to build a high lumen projector with good contrast by using a lamp than by using a laser.

Using a laser is going to bring a drop in contrast unless you make important changes inside the projector. This is what happend with a lot of laser DLP's. Even the JVC has a sh*tty contrast laser named NZ3 which really doesn't deserve the name JVC at all.

The same thing is true for native 4k chips. It's harder for the light to get through so the lumen output will drop if you don't make a lot of changes inside. This is why I don't really want a native 4k from Epson. I will be perfectly happy with a redesigned eshift technology, that will be able to either shift 4 times the 1080p or shift 2 times a 2880x1620 resolution.

Overcoming those problems can be done but at what price? If we are going to get a native 4k LCD that will cost twice as much as TW9400 it will be a no go for me and for many others.

Epson is in this buisiness for a long time and they probably know that price is a very imporant factor couse they don't really have the same clients as JVC. They have a much larger market and they probably want to keep those sells instead of compeating for the small AV market where JVC and Sony are playing.
 
Last edited:

Jimmy2shoes

Active Member
Hmm, as far as I know the vast majority of ,, HDR'' on streaming is actualy DV so there is no need for DTM isn't it?

I have tryied to watch DV content with both the tone mapping done by TW9400 and by OPPO 203.
Well for HDR movies TW9400 is doing a better job but for DV there is no way I can watch it without OPPO HDR-SDR conversion, as it has the ability to process DV. How well is doing it I have no clue but the content looks good to me.

And before anyone asks, no, OPPO does not have streaming apps but I have the Apple TV conected to OPPO's HDMI input so I am able to use the video processing of this BD player for Apple TV, consoles and other stuff that doesn't have tone mapping.

I am sure that, if OPPO wouldn't have left the BD Players buisiness, now we could have bought a BD Player perfectly capable of doing DTM. Unfortunately for the whole AV community around the world, they left the Middle Earth way too soon :)

I was without 2 weeks ago for a week and remembered that there was a Oppo at work not in use so I took it home.
It's also a Oppo 203, I haven't had much time to use it but did notice 3 HDMI slots. So I can run my shield through the Oppo?
What would be the benefits in me doing this. I use the Shield for Plex mostly HDR+SDR
Thanks
EDIT: Work is a family business so I didn't rob 🤣
 

Harold88

Member
What would be the benefits in me doing this. I use the Shield for Plex mostly HDR+SDR
Thanks
You can tonemapp the HDR and DV content to match the capabilities of your display.

For example if you are using a projector and you want to watch a Netflix series with HDR/DV, you can choose the option from OPPO HDR-SDR (bt2020 on if your projector is able to display bt 2020 corectly, otherwise go for rec 709) by choosing the luminance target. This option (luminance target) is extremely important couse otherwise you have no ideea how the conversion is done and probably it's trying to hit a luminance more suited for a TV witch will make your content dark and dull.

Also choose from OPPO menu the option DV processing on player not on TV couse, again, if you are using a projector, it won't be able to process corectly.

This is of course good for TV's that doesn't have internal tone mapping.

After you connect your shield to OPPO (HDMI INPUT not other HDMI), choose from OPPO remote HDMI IN. After that you will be able to see on the display your Shield.

So, unfortunately, since 2017, no one designed another BD Player or even a Media Player that is able to do things like this. Panasonic has a better tonemapping but no HDMI In and not immersive sound tracks unless you are using a physical disc. It's a pity couse UB9000 would have made a very good video processor but this is what we have right now.
 
Last edited:

Jimmy2shoes

Active Member
You can tonemapp the HDR and DV content to match the capabilities of your display.

For example if you are using a projector and you want to watch a Netflix series with HDR/DV, you can choose the option from OPPO HDR-SDR (bt2020 on if your projector is able to display bt 2020 corectly, otherwise go for rec 709) by choosing the luminance target. This option (luminance target) is extremely important couse otherwise you have no ideea how the conversion is done and probably it's trying to hit a luminance more suited for a TV witch will make your content dark and dull.

Also choose from OPPO menu the option DV processing on player not on TV couse, again, if you are using a projector, it won't be able to process corectly.

This is of course good for TV's that doesn't have internal tone mapping.

After you connect your shield to OPPO (HDMI INPUT not other HDMI), choose from OPPO remote HDMI IN. After that you will be able to see on the display your Shield.

So, unfortunately, since 2017, no one designed another BD Player or even a Media Player that is able to do things like this. Panasonic has a better tonemapping but no HDMI In and not immersive sound tracks unless you are using a physical disc. It's a pity couse UB9000 would have made a very good video processor but this is what we have right now.

Thanks a lot 👍

I'm going to try this tonight and play around with the tone-mapping.

Just checked the prices on these and man they are expensive, looking forward to testing it out
 

Harold88

Member
Don't forget to play with the luminance target untill you find the best looking image. Also I suggest using either HDR mode 2 or 3 but this is just my personal prefference.
 

swiftpete

Distinguished Member
Lamps are back in stock at epson. Has anyone felt the need to change theirs? I’m on about 1500ish hours and it still looks good, just thinking maybe getting one for when it does start to fade. I know the marketing says 3000 hours but surely they can’t be good anywhere near that time can they?
 

Alaric

Well-known Member
Lamps are back in stock at epson. Has anyone felt the need to change theirs? I’m on about 1500ish hours and it still looks good, just thinking maybe getting one for when it does start to fade. I know the marketing says 3000 hours but surely they can’t be good anywhere near that time can they?

I'm about 1100 iirc - I've wondered about having one in stock. The image is still great, but i've yet to scope it to see what light loss there is.

I recall with my old Mitsubishi i got it second hand and well used, i bought an decent ebay lamp and swapped it, but noticed surprisingly little difference. After quite some usage i did get a bang and the lamp had died. Swapped back to the original one and again little difference.

Anecdotal, different PJ and i always wondered about the ebay bulb, because you do and maybe because the unit had a lot of hours the panels were the limiting factor?
 

ShanePJ

Well-known Member
AVForums Sponsor
Lamps are back in stock at epson. Has anyone felt the need to change theirs? I’m on about 1500ish hours and it still looks good, just thinking maybe getting one for when it does start to fade. I know the marketing says 3000 hours but surely they can’t be good anywhere near that time can they?
Lamp life has so many variables, but if you feel its still fine, I would say that the 2,000 mark is when most who use a projector for normal viewing will start to see some dropping in brightness, but it should be very nominal. In reality, ever since you purchased the projector (New), after the first 100 hours, it has been fading over a very small curve downwards and will carry on for most of its life

After 1,500 hours, this means that the projector will not have lost 50% of its brightness (as one might expect) thanks to this curve which is brilliant, but you will have lost some brightness compared to a shiny new lamp. Now when will the lamp "drop off/dim", this will usually happen over very few hours, its brightness will diminish very quickly or it might go bang when its going to happen

There is no science either as to when any one lamp will drop off as most of this is down to how each projector is used in its location, but the best plan is to always have a spare in stock when you start to notice or question the quality

Don't forget if you have calibrated your projector, you should only need to burn the lamp in until it reached the same calibrated hours as those settings should return. This is usually 100 hours (which is the time it takes the lamp to burn in and start on it small curve downwards), if you have had a protentional calibrator in, then they should have told you this anyway. The reason is that the first 100 hours, a lamp will fluctuate in brightness before it settles

I've only mentioned 2,000 hours as I expect most to see something them, but its not an absolute as I've also seen people who have managed to squeeze 5,000 hours out of their lamps. To me, I wouldn't have called it good viewing, but its not me watching it, so cannot judge. So trust your own eyes and if you feel you can see something, then that should tell you its you its time to get a spare lamp in. Also don't forget to try the new lamp, let it cool over night before packing it back up to. But that should cover any issues if you get a duff new lamp to which you don't use for another six months
 

markymiles

Distinguished Member
Think I'm about 1000 too and absolutely loads of output still. But hey why let logic get in the way, thought I'd get one anyway. Handy just in case they ever have problems in the future with bulb production or something. That's my reasoning and I'm sticking to it 😏.

Liking Paypals new pay in three feature. Used that so three £35 payments show up. Can see me using that for bigger purchases lol
 

toons

Active Member
I'm at 2683 hours, I don't feel the need to change the lamp yet.
 

mikemag

Distinguished Member
Presumably as a result of Brexit Epson advised me that they will no longer ship bulbs to the Republic of Ireland and told me to contact my retailer, in this case Richer Sounds in Belfast for the part.

They then quoted RS £150 plus vat for the same bulb that’s £105.50 on their website so that wasn’t a runner and I ended up relying on the kindness of the legend that is @Mark Costello to forward me the bulb when it was shipped to him.
 

Donnacha

Distinguished Member
I'm around 2,100 hours...still nice and bright, but may buy one as a back up if they're in stock

EDIT - just ordered one
 
Last edited:

batfink007

Active Member
Hi all
I'm in the process of building a dedicated home cinema and while I would love to buy a native 4k JVC I just can't afford it, so am looking to buy a TW9400. I'm not going to pull the trigger just yet - 1) because I'm nowhere near done with the cinema build and 2) just in case Epson release a new model.

On that point, does anyone know when they would be likely to announce new/refreshed models IF they were going to?

2nd question - are there any retailers who offer free calibration for the TW9400, or is that not realistic at that price point?

Thanks
 

The latest video from AVForums

Podcast: Best Home Cinema Sources and B&W 805 D4 Speaker Review and more...
Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Latest News

StormAudio launches ISP Core 16 AV processor
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
Cabasse launches limited edition Pearl Pelegrina speaker
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
AVForums Podcast: 22nd September 2021
  • By Phil Hinton
  • Published
Creative introduces Sound Blaster Katana V2 soundbar
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
Audeze introduces reference LCD-5 planar magnetic headphones
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published

Full fat HDMI teeshirts

Support AVForums with Patreon

Top Bottom