Epson LS10000 Laser projector

:facepalm:
Just trying to understand the process:)
Spot on calibration @WCG10bit is one thing but what happens when you output the WCG10bit to the Epsons 8bit input? According to the Epson chart 8bit is then processed by Epson on board hardware to 10bit/12bit, 8bit up scaled to 10/12bit will this affect the spot on calibrated colours outputted by the PRO?

I am not expert here! So in my simple interpretation of things and how they work, the lumagen pro can remap the bt2020 colour space and output it as a DCI Colour space that the Epson is capable of displaying and then useing the lumagen to output hundred of colour swatches onscreen scan them then create a custom LUT to display the colours as they should look. Sorry if this is wrong but like I said I'm no expert!

I just spend too much money on AV equipment and media :facepalm:
 
That was exactly how Gordon put it to me, I unfortunately don't have the technical knowledge about all things convergant but the problem is if it is a problem is that at this level of equipment to get noticeable increases in picture quality the cost starts going north quite a bit. In my opinion the picture quality of the ls 10000 is superb anyway, up until last week I had it hooked up to a lumagen 3D mini and was happy then after asking about future proofing my set up I was advised to go up to the pro, I was not disappointed . No they are not cheap but you will not get better cms in a projector in my opinion.
Is it possible to spend to much on AV kit!!!!
 
The LS10000 has a 10gb pipeline and will accept 10 bit colour/wide colour gamut up to 30 fps. The restrictions are no passing of HDR metadata and video/broadcast material at the higher frame rates of 50/60 fps for 4K where the colour defaults to 8 bit. The current difficulties are around the interface between the UHD player and the projector but it looks like the Panasonic may actually work for 10 bit colour/SDR for the Epson. However I think we need more test results to confirm this.
 
In my opinion you have to be nuts or completely OCD to invest that kind of money in a processor. I admit I've done it in the past and learned my lesson -- as video progresses it leaves these processors as obsolete relics way too quickly. I have a Terannex 1080p processor that cost a lot of money; however, it was purchased with a particular objective in mind -- 2D to 3D conversion and it does a great job and I plan to continue using it for a long time to come. I have owned 1080p Lumagen processors and they are now gathering dust. Better to buy a JVC projector that will do what you want rather than try and upgrade the LS10000 -- use the LS10000 for 1080p sources and some 4K sources and enjoy it. If you want some sort of "faux" HDR with it buy PowerDVD 15 or 16 and use the True Theatre enhancements -- it does a surprisingly descent job. I've thrown a lot of money at both audio and video for years and if I've learned one thing it's to be very careful -- chasing audio and video perfection is never ending and as far as money is concerned it's a bottomless pit.
 
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The Lumagen's do an excellent job, but the Pro is pretty serious money for many on here when the display is around the same cost. At least its not like back in the day when a Snell and Wilcox Interpolator would set you back something like thirty grand!!!! Then you had a mega expensive CRT projector, Barco et al.

Video technology has moved a long way since then.
 
My own view is that given a choice, I would not want to be without a Lumagen in my video chain.
When I first spoke with Gordon a hundred or so years ago he quoted several customers as saying this exact same thing.
I did not expect to agree with these quotes quite as quickly as I did once a unit was part of our setup.
The real cost of anything is a personal view centering on one's own circumstance at the point of purchase etc.
If we do feel the need to upgrade to 4K then the Pro is part of that cost, I understand and accept this.
I am as sure of this as I can be in that if we want 4K HDR (DCI, faux 4K, etc etc) or its near equivalents to look the best they can on the equipment we have then a Pro is an essential part of our chain.
Other views are of course available but this is mine.
 
My own view is that given a choice, I would not want to be without a Lumagen in my video chain.
When I first spoke with Gordon a hundred or so years ago he quoted several customers as saying this exact same thing.
I did not expect to agree with these quotes quite as quickly as I did once a unit was part of our setup.
The real cost of anything is a personal view centering on one's own circumstance at the point of purchase etc.
If we do feel the need to upgrade to 4K then the Pro is part of that cost, I understand and accept this.
I am as sure of this as I can be in that if we want 4K HDR (DCI, faux 4K, etc etc) or its near equivalents to look the best they can on the equipment we have then a Pro is an essential part of our chain.
Other views are of course available but this is mine.

I am assuming you may have your lumagen pro connected at the moment, do you mind if I ask your overall view as I think your setup is going to be similar to mine once I get my pro installed.

And as I said earlier in a post completely agree with you that the lumagen pro is needed to get the best out of 4K ultra HD Bluray and the Epson LS10000 and unfortunately these things are never cheap.

Thanks David
 
I am assuming you may have your lumagen pro connected at the moment, do you mind if I ask your overall view as I think your setup is going to be similar to mine once I get my pro installed.

And as I said earlier in a post completely agree with you that the lumagen pro is needed to get the best out of 4K ultra HD Bluray and the Epson LS10000 and unfortunately these things are never cheap.

Thanks David

Hi,

At the moment we have the 2021 in our chain.
We are awaiting the new firmware before we demo the 4240 along with the Panasonic spinner.
Gordon has estimated it could be as little as 6 weeks away but at this point patience is required.
 
Does anyone have official confirmation of an HDR firmware update being issued, and if so when? Any other aspects too, like forcing high lamp mode, locking out K-"shift" etc?
Cheers!
 
Does anyone have official confirmation of an HDR firmware update being issued, and if so when? Any other aspects too, like forcing high lamp mode, locking out K-"shift" etc?
Cheers!

hi Jez

their is nothing official yet and I was told in confidence that "it might get the HDR update" later in the year so please don't take this info as being gospel, infact you shouldn't even know about it tbh so your source needs to keep their trap shut :D

as soon as their is anything official don't worry I or another dealer will try to let you all know in a flash

Allan
 
Hi Al - thanks. Sorry no source, just some idle speculation after chatting to a few folk about that new fangled HDR and how nice it would be to have on the 10K. Then as resolution is less important, HDR support could easily be a killer addition for prospective purchasers or owners depending if you have one already.
 
Hi Steve, I asked this question to Epson technical and they replied saying that the LS10000 did not have the hardware on board for HDR and so no update was possible. They did say that 10 bit colour was possible and so SD with rec2020 and WCG should be doable at some point. Whether Allen has 'deeper' sources I don't know but currently this is the official Epson line. Hope this helps.
 
I'm not sure Steve. The Lumagen Pro rather alters the landscape by providing all the necessary processing for HDR. I believe you can theoretically fool the LS10000 into showing HDR with all the trimmings but we would need to see it in action before making any hard and fast judgements.

With regard to WCG, reading between the lines it looks like the LS10000 can deliver this but will probably need the fabled firmware update.
 
From what I've been told directly by Epson and read from others, the LS10000 will not be getting an HDR upgrade. But losing HDR by itself is not a big deal to me given the LS10000's (or any comparably priced projector's) limited brightness/contrast. I think it will be several years before we see projectors in this price range that will benefit significantly from HDR.

That being said, I think Paul's post above is great news about the possibility of a firmware update to allow the LS10000 to display 10-bit color along with SDR content from a UHD BD. The visual improvement of WCG alone may not be much different than WCG+HDR on this projector. It would be interesting if someone could make this comparison on one of the newer JVCs that does WCG and HDR.
 
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As a postscript to Darrell above, I've just been listening to the Scott Wilkinson podcast with Joe Kane. He mischeviously suggested that SDR with rec 2020 10 bit colour was preferable to HDR for flat panel HDR TV's. In terms of the current crop of projectors with light output woefully below what is required for good HDR this is quite welcome news I would have thought:cool:
 
Looks very promising. Proper HDR on A
a PJ at a sensible price IMHO is years away. TVs may be good once Dolby Vision's silicon is inside products but I hate the reflections on panel screens eg ambient light or lamps on in your room. Plus decent sized panel of 75 inches and above are pricy.
 
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That's quite an interesting podcast.

Am I right i saying that JKs position is that 10 bit SDR with the same luminance range can deliver a better image than the same with HDR because HDR has to clip a lot of the top end gamma wise because no current displays can produce it. I think that was with P3 as well, so everything being equal other than how the gamma delivers the image.

If the gamma is hard set for 10,000 nits then won't HDR will be shooting itself in the foot until such time displays can achieve that, or if the gamma can be custom built for each display? Maybe that's what the new Lumagen will allow (Remapping the gamma), but that's just a guess. I think I might have to watch it again because I've not really been following HDR so I don't fully understand it.

I've seen it in action an to be honest it didn't seem to do much for the image - a lot of the time we were trying to work out what bits were HDR within the image, so were kind of guessing at it.

Gary
 
i`ve seen HDR on 3 different occasions on 3 professionally calibrated displays, 2 projector and 1 flat panel, or rather 3 as it was at Leeds University, and so far i`m not sure what all the fuss is about tbh.

As said, until we get display devices that can achieve the necessary to allow us the "see" what they want us to see then all of us will be watching an image compromised

i`d much rather watch a well set up 1080p display than a comprised HDR one, so as i`ve been saying about 4k for 2-3 years, lets wait until they get it right so we can see what we want to/should see, mind you then we`ll all be going on about HDR+ or 8k or something else, or some of you will :D
 
Whether Allen has 'deeper' sources I don't know but currently this is the official Epson line. Hope this helps.

sorry i missed your last bit Paul

tbh i don`t have deeper sources but i do have sources that have deeper sources than me :D

i`ve spoken to my "not as deep a source as you might think" source this morning and asked him to dig deeper (sorry) if he could and he came back with..

"all my really deep sources can`t tell me anything as they probably don`t know anything"

so as i said earlier on, its all pie (deep filled flaky pastry ) in the sky atm so i suggest all the LS10000 owners sit back and enjoy their fabulous projectors :clap:

anyway enough about sauces unless its HP and not HD :rotfl:
 
I think for as long as I can remember (even before 1080), people have been asking for 10/12 bit displays and a wider colour gamut (as well as more sequential contrast), and not for 4k tbh. More contrast has always been one of the most asked for things since forever. :)

Gary
 
Please allow me to change gears. I was considering running a CAT6A cable to my projector to allow a wired connection to my home network. This will take some wire fishing since the theater is already finished. But now looking at the manual it appears I can only do limited control and monitoring of the projector, which I really don't need. I thought I might be able to easily do firmware updates or even stream video to the projector if it was connected by ethernet. I guess this is not the case? Am I correct that firmware updates have to be done through the USB connection and there will be no streaming directly to the projector over ethernet? Thanks.
 
you are indeed correct
 
Oh, one more thing. One half of my plastic lens cover just started failing to move when the projector is turned on. Epson's response is to replace the projector. Is this a common issue? My projector only had 139 hours of use. I hate the thought of such a simple plastic mechanism failing all the time.
 

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