Epson LCD vs Benq DLP in 2013

Which one has a better image, better blacks, better shadow detail, sharpness?

  • Epson TW5910 LCD

    Votes: 4 25.0%
  • Benq W1070 DLP

    Votes: 12 75.0%

  • Total voters
    16

kevo82

Novice Member
AVForums it's better that AVS Forums for info about european products, so I hope I'll get your help.

First of all, I want a projector.
I was sure that Epson TW5910 it's exactly what I need: 3D projector, with good black levels, more than 2000 lumens, 2D/3D conversion, for 1100€.

But now, I read about Benq W1070 and I am really confused. It's really that good for the money (850€)?

This Benq W1070 review, shows a comparation of Benq W1070 black levels against other competitors.

Benq W1070 it's much better than Epson TW6000 (40.000 contrast), which it's better than TW5910 (only 20.000:1 contrast)
The only projectors with better black levels than Benq W1070, under 2000€, were Acer H9500BD and Benq W7000 but are more expensive.


So, you would think that Benq it's the obvious choice between TW5910 and W1070, right?

But after you watch this video, would you still buy a DLP over a 3LCD projector?
[ame="http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=spGsjUZXyHc"]3LCD Compares Color Brightness of DLP vs. 3LCD Projector at InfoComm 2012 - YouTube[/ame]



Why do I read everywhere, about that special DLP "look and feel"?
It looks that DLP has washed out colors and less brightness when it's compared to LCD.

Why would I choose a DLP and not a LCD projector?
I know that all the cinemas have DLP, so I know that I am not sensible to rainbow effect, but I don't understand why DLP are favourite over LCD?
The only downside of a LCD so far, I think it's the pixel granulation and the lack of sharpness on LCD, compared to DLP.

PLEASE HELP ME CHOOSE:

- Benq W1070 3D DLP - lens shift, 1.3:1 zoom, better black level and shadow detail, no 3D artifacts and crosstalk, 2000 lumens (1700 lumens after calibration)

or

- Epson TW 5910 3D LCD - no lens shift 1.6:1 zoom, 2D/3D conversion, minor 3D artifacts and crosstalk, 2100 lumens (but only 1300 lumens after calibration)

I don't think it's that important to have lens shift, but zoom I think it is important, because I want to use a cheap wide lens for 2.35 anamorphic like here:

[ame="http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PJ-ZnajmvFw"]2.35:1 - YouTube[/ame]




I was interested in Panasonic PT-AH1000E (PT-AR100U in USA) after I watched this video on YouTube.
The quality it's incredible, for only 1000$ in USA. I realised that here, in Europe, that model it's 1750€, so it's off my list.

[ame="http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DHZCNomDe8o"]Panasonic PT-AR100 / PT-AH1000 review - YouTube[/ame]



The same for Acer H9500BD which costs 1500€.
 
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kevo82

Novice Member
127 views and no reply? Seriously?

No owner of Epson or Benq, no owner of any DLP or LED projector?

Really?
 

Dan L

Active Member
I don't see how you can make your mind up by viewing a bunch of YouTube video TBH. You need to go demo them for yourself in an ideal world. Owners can only comment on their own setups and not really offer you the direct comparison you are seeking...unless there's something specific you need to know about either?
 

kevo82

Novice Member
Of course I can...it's the next best thing after demo live.

If I see a video of a projector and it looks perfect, do you think that after I get the same one, will look awfull?

There are just a few videos of Benq W1070, because it's quite new, so I can't have an opinion about picture quality and black levels.

What you guys could do at least, would be to give me some info about that "special DLP look and feel" that I don't understand, compared to LCD.

I mean, what should I expect from the DLP Benq more, orless that Epson LCD?
 

Dan L

Active Member
My point about the videos is that you can't really judge the quality accurately, and also that in some cases the environment will be massively different to your own environment - things such as lighting an decor make a huge difference, so you might find you are unable to reproduce what you've seen on YouTube.

As for the PJ, I can only comment on my experiences so far:

Plus points:
- Excellent picture quality
- Loads of setup/calibration options
- Bright image, so ok for daytime viewing (even in ECO mode the image is fairly bright)
- 3D is really awesome :)
- Vertical lens shift - you might not think it's important, but it's so useful for tweaking the vertical alignment. I use it all the time as it's often difficult to get the screen in the same place every single time, and the PJ is perfectly level so I don't want to tilt it or disturb that.
- Throw ratio means you can have a big screen at a short distance (mine is 100" @ 2.6m)

Negative points:
- Fans can be noisy, especially in NORMAL lamp mode
- Black levels are a little disappointing - however, this is really down to my environment (light coloured silk paint on walls, so loads of ambient light) so can't really blame the PJ for it. The screen size makes up for it though.
- Focus tends to "fall off" in the corners, only really noticeable when viewing text (for example, a console's menu) - not that big a deal when watching movies
- Some RBE when moving your eyes quickly across certain scenes - but this may affect you more than I. It's not enough to bother me too much.

If PQ is your primary factor, then the room's environment and the quality of the screen (I have a cheapo Duronic one, it's ok, but not the best) will make a huge difference. Unfortunately my wife would probably divorce me if I painted the lounge black ;)
 

kevo82

Novice Member
Thank you for the answer.

Now I've seen in your signature that you own a W1070.
Do you had any issues with the rainbow effect?
Would you say that W1070 has the same sharpness and image quality like the Panasonic Pt-AH1000E from the 3rd video, in my first post? I am talking about the image quality with the ambiental lights off (minute 5:00 in the video).

Can you explain me what it's the difference between a DLP and a LCD image?
All I know it's that a LCD projector gets a pixelated image if the projection distance it's small, and the sharpness it's worse. What about colors? A DLP has washed off colors, or not?
 

Funkykoval31

Standard Member
I was sure that Epson TW5910 it's exactly what I need: 3D projector, with good black levels, more than 2000 lumens, 2D/3D conversion, for 1100€.

- Black levels are a little disappointing - however, this is really down to my environment (light coloured silk paint on walls, so loads of ambient light) so can't really blame the PJ for it. The screen size makes up for it though.

I agree with Dan L. I have TW5900 and black level is embarrassing. Controlling ambient light helps(I have black furnitures and curtains, dark red walls and window blinds, dark rug), but black level is still really poor...
 

kevo82

Novice Member
I don't understand what it's that special look and feel of an DLP projector, that you don't see on a LCD projector.

It's about deeper blacks, better contrast or what? I don't have a local shop where I could test the projector, so I never watched a DLP (except cinema) nor a LCD projector in action.

Which one has better colors and which one has better blacks, contrast and shadow detail?

Thank you funkykoval31 for the details about TW5900...can you tell me if you would choose Epson TW5900 again? Or right now you would go for the Benq W1070.

What do you like at TW5900
 

Dan L

Active Member
Kevo - I'll try and shoot some video this evening for you. Can't really do it in the day as I have 3 south-facing windows and patio doors in the lounge all screened with unlined red curtains :D

Hopefully will give you a good enough comparison to the other vids you've seen.
 

kevo82

Novice Member
Kevo - I'll try and shoot some video this evening for you. Can't really do it in the day as I have 3 south-facing windows and patio doors in the lounge all screened with unlined red curtains :D

Hopefully will give you a good enough comparison to the other vids you've seen.

thanks a lot man...I really want to see a nice video of the W1070 to compare it with TW5900 that I see here
 

kevo82

Novice Member
Of course I know. But in that video you have Tw5900 (min 2:02) and TW6000 (min 3:20) playing Thor 3D. I am very curious to see the W1070 (maybe playing Thor 2D) to see the difference in color, sharpness, shadow detail and black levels.

Thanks a lot guys...I knew that AVForums it's better than AVS Forums.
 
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kevo82

Novice Member
I agree with Dan L. I have TW5900 and black level is embarrassing. Controlling ambient light helps(I have black furnitures and curtains, dark red walls and window blinds, dark rug), but black level is still really poor...

Why do you guys say that Tw5900 black level it's embarasing? In the video above, at min 2:50 the black levels look quite good in my opinion. And the coolors are also very vivid.

It may also look ok, because it's 3D, so the light it's dimmed compared to 2D.

For me, this would be good enough.
 

Dan L

Active Member
Ok I uploaded a video last night. It didn't turn out as well as I was hoping, suppose that should have been expected as the best I have to record on is my Samsung GS3. Some points to note:

- I could only shoot at 30fps
- I had to disable 24p mode on the PS3 for the BD playback, as the banding was really bad. There is still some but it's not really noticeable.
- Unfortunately my GS3 had a hard time adjusting to the bright display in a dark room, and you can see the exposure compensating as it switches from dark to light scenes. If a scene stays on long enough (not often) you can get the best idea of the PQ.
- The picture appears over-saturated (camera problem)
- Many shadows have a strong blue tint (camera problem)
- whites appear to bloom and look out-of-focus in places (eg white text on black background)
- Sound is slightly out-of-sync (iMovie issue I guess)
- I exported from iMovie and it would only let me export at max 720p (source was 1080p)

So overall, doesn't give you an accurate impression of what you can expect really, but that's the best I can do with my limited recording equipment :)

You can see the result here:

 
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kevo82

Novice Member
Thanks a lot man...it's just what I needed.

You just made it more difficult for me to choose, because I didn't expect such a nice image from Benq W1070 to be honest.

The black levels are very good. Yes, the colors are over saturated, but I like the result.

When I compare it to the video that I posted, where Epson TW5900 it's playing Thor 3D at minute 2:50, it's really difficult to pick a winner.

I would go for the Benq, because, being a DLP, has a longer lifetime; the colors won't wash out; the 3D it's completely cross talk free and it's cheaper than Epson TW5900/5910.

The reason that I would choose Epson TW5910 it's 2D/3D conversion and side by side view.

The image quality seems to be better for Epson, but I'm sure that this is because the camera can't keep up with the DLP image, and it flickers a lot.

The black levels are good ebough for me, on both videos, so I guess I'll buy the Benq and if I am not impressed bi it, I will return it, and get the Epson.

Thank you for the video :)
 

Dan L

Active Member
You're welcome :)

I'm sure you won't be disappointed whatever choice you make. The picture will never be as good as a decent plasma, but to be honest you'll be so blown away by the size that it doesn't really matter.

I have two brothers-in-law who both went out and bought PJs within days of seeing mine - one got the same setup as me, and the other bought a 720p Benq (mainly for playing games on)...that's the effect it has!
 

kevo82

Novice Member
So this means that you are very pleased with it, and you would choose the same model again if you had to choose again?

What were your reasons to buy DLP and not LCD?

I always thought that LCD it's better technology, but now I see that DLP it's the newest and with much more advantages.

I realised that I made a mistake...in my first post here, the first video it's a comparison between a single chip projector and a 3 chip projector. I thought it was a comparison between a single chip DLP projector and a 3LCD projector, but I was wrong.

So, I am leaning towards DLP no actually. I think I'll wait for a while and get the Benq
 
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Dan L

Active Member
I am very pleased with it - I was originally looking to purchase a £3.5k 65" Panasonic plasma, which in all honesty was beyond the realms of justification for me...then I started to get an urge to try out a projector.

I almost bought an Optoma Themescene HD87 from eBay before Christmas, it was a good price (just over a grand) but for something to "try out" was just that little bit too expensive. Plus the unit is huge and siting it would have been a headache.

Then last month I went through the process of buying a graded Optoma GT750XL for around £360, that didn't work out because someone beat me to it...it would have been the right price for what I was trying to do (see if I liked it) but in hindsight I would have regretted not pushing the budget to get a 1080p model.

So with the seed well and truly planted I just looked around for a PJ that had positive feedback from users and good reviews, and that was able to give me the size I wanted (100") at a short throw distance (2.6m) - that narrows it down a bit. The Benq was the one that soon became the fixation for me.

So I'm afraid I don't have a story of agonising over loads of types or models of PJ, I just went for what I though was a bargain to test the water, and it worked out for me - which is unusual, I'm really fussy about quality, but was not disappointed. I just see it as getting something way more impressive [than a 65" plasma] for under a grand. Most people are blown away by the cost when they see it in action.
 

Chester Pete

Active Member
The black levels are good ebough for me, on both videos, so I guess I'll buy the Benq and if I am not impressed bi it, I will return it, and get the Epson.

IMO, they are both fine projectors.

For me, Having a projector is all about feeling immersed into the picture.
What I can say is that with DLP I do feel this.
Is that the "Magic look and feel of DLP?" - I don't know TBH

I may feel equally immersed with budget LCD machines but TBH, I can't say that as I haven't tried it.
A good way of explaining this is if you see a high up scene on the projector e.g. looking over a cliff. If while you're watching this, you feel a bit of vertigo, then that is being immersed into the picture.

Put it this way - The DLP option works fine for me - the W1070 is ridiculously cheap and for me, life is to short to worry about "what could be better".
Its inevitable that more expensive options will be better but how much do you want to pay?

BUT - I would look at it as this:
"what does the more expensive PJ give me over the W1070?"

I can understand why you are asking the questions though - you're wanting to weigh up what is best for your first projector - you want to feel as if you are making the best choice.




Perhaps the best way out of the confusion is to settle some other aspects first - e.g. do you suffer from any RBE with a DLP projector? This is essential if you're on a budget.
If you don't suffer RBE, then most people seem to say that they prefer DLP.
As no-one seems to disagree, I'm happy to accept this.
 

kevo82

Novice Member
You are perfectly right.

I don't want to make the same mistake that I made 2 years ago with my Panasonic VT20 50" plasma, when I could have bought the same TV, but without 3D (that I never use), for 600£ less (50V20).
With 600£ I could have bought a set of Klipsch RF-52 speakers.


The most impressed, I was by the Panasonic PT-AH1000E video on Youtube but it's 2D only. in USA it's 1000$, and in Europe it's 1700€ (1500£), so it's too expensive.

So I guess I will buy the Benq.
 

Dan L

Active Member
See, you are obviously a man of good taste being a fellow Panny owner :smashin:

Let us know how you get on with the Benq!
 

kevo82

Novice Member
See, you are obviously a man of good taste being a fellow Panny owner :smashin:

Let us know how you get on with the Benq!


:) I am a Panasonic fan from 1989 when I had the best VCR on the market :)

I am very pleased with my 50VT20 but after I looked at this year plasma line flagship, ZT60, I sart to bite my nails :)

If I could get the Panasonic projector at the USA price, I would get it instantly, even if it has only 2D.

But I have a feeling that Benq will be more than ok.
 
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kevo82

Novice Member
I really wonder, why Panasonic and Epson (two of the projector leaders) have only LCD and not even one DLP in their home cinema line projectors?
 
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Desmo

Distinguished Member
The first thing to check is do you see rainbows with DLP? If you do and it's enough to annoy you then it answers your question for you. Go take a demo of a DLP and see how you get on.
 

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